The Case for Adelaide.....

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Campbelltown area growing faster than Perth - Tigers should focus on that.
Here in Sydney when Tigers are winning you realize how many fans they have. Losing them will hurt league

Fair enough.

Maybe they should change their name to West Sydney Tigers. It would probably appeal more to advertisers.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Adelaide will bring 10k fans to game live or on TV yet require millions to fund & prop up. Total waste of time

hahahaha!

Tell us more oh wise one....

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I can't agree more with this. Trying to appeal to multiple areas or markets ends up appealing to no one, it is one of the worst things about the current Tigers' setup

A stand alone club is definitely better in many aspects, but I cannot see a position for one in Adelaide or Perth popping up any time soon.

One advantage of a Sydney team taking 6 games a year to Perth Oval is it would still be based out of Sydney, which would save it a tonne of money and help them sign players who are already based in Sydney. It will still get to play six home games in Sydney against other Sydney derbies, while taking lower drawing matches against interstate clubs to Perth.

The two successful expansion sides for AwFuL are the Melbournian clubs that relocated to Sydney ans Brisbane. The Bears failed to the point they had to merge with Fitzroy and the Suns and Giants are sucking the coffers dry.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

No.

"Split home" clubs are not ideal - just look at the wandering home-ground setup that the Wests Tigers has. Are they a Campbelltown club? An inner-west club? A 2nd Parramatta club?!? It's just caused an identity crisis.

As bad as that is, that's just splitting games across one city - splitting games across multiple cities is an atrocious idea - by trying to be the team for two cities, you're ending up as the team for neither.

A club MAY want to take 1-2 games per year to a secondary market - and I think that could work - but anywhere near an even split is unweildy. (I'm looking at Tigers & Dragons most of all there)

I agree. And yes, I agree the JV clubs have issues in this regard. It's indeed an identity issue and doesn't sit well with me that my club is one of them.

I put up the Jets as an example, for a bit of a giggle at first but IF (and I do mean "IF") a club would relocate I'd think the Adelaide Jets would be a great brand name and could work. I don't want nor think an existing NRL club should relocate anywhere - unless they were completely unable to operate like the Jets were back in the early 80's. The Jets are a former top-flight club that will never get back to that level unless something like this happened.

• Would Adelaide follow the Jets? Absolutely
• Could the Newtown Jets still exist in the CC comp/Lower Tiers? Absolutely
• Could Newtown be a feeder club to Adelaide? Absolutely - mindful of existing relationships with other NRL clubs though.
• Would Newtown Fans follow the Adelaide Jets? - I don't honestly know but seeing a Jets team running out in the Blue Strip with white armbands in the top flight comp.. I'd think there'd be strong interest. Singo & Tommy would be on board!
• Would the legacy of the Jets being kicked out of the comp because of the financial issues at the time affect the new Adelaide Jets? Not in my view.

More chance of John Fifita actually coming back than that happening but IF a club was to relocate I reckon the Jets are a shout. Food for thought on the forums to chew over, nothing more.

I mentioned many posts ago that a benefit of a relocated club to Perth or Adelaide could be that there is an "away" fan base when the team plays in Sydney. Otherwise you'd get limited fans from these places flying over to Sydney. But in no way do I believe a relocated team to either of these should split home games - they should all remain in Adelaide or Perth or wherever a team is based and become that cities' team (despite someone previously disputing my opinions and interpreting them differently to promote their opinions as facts, which I may well get here again). Relocated teams have worked in other sports - AFL for example. And while not a relocated team - the GWS Giants show how it doesn't work to spread themselves around.. Brought into the comp promoting themselves to be out of Blacktown (out of Doonside), then sacked that off for Homebush, but then also play home games in Canberra..... WTF.. dogs breakfast.

 

[Perth Red]

Thats why relocations will NEVER happen! No LC owned NRL club in its right mind is going to hand over the NRl license to another city just so the top grade name continues. And no city is going to want a club who is owned by a Sydney LC and still runs it like a Sydney club that's on holiday. The only chance of relocation is if a Sydney club goes bust and cant find a new owner, but short of fans totally abandoning a club or a LC going broke and being stripped of its assets there is no motivation, desire or intention for anyone to move. Its a pipedream lol.


Dont the unwanted Giants have more members than most Sydney clubs? Just checked, 2019 no NRL club in Sydney or ACT bettered GWS membership number, WTF? Maybe there is something in having dual locations!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

A stand alone club is definitely better in many aspects, but I cannot see a position for one in Adelaide or Perth popping up any time soon.

One advantage of a Sydney team taking 6 games a year to Perth Oval is it would still be based out of Sydney, which would save it a tonne of money and help them sign players who are already based in Sydney. It will still get to play six home games in Sydney against other Sydney derbies, while taking lower drawing matches against interstate clubs to Perth.

The two successful expansion sides for AwFuL are the Melbournian clubs that relocated to Sydney ans Brisbane. The Bears failed to the point they had to merge with Fitzroy and the Suns and Giants are sucking the coffers dry.

We disagree on the splitting of games between two markets issue. I think full relocation of clubs could work (Swans / Lions) but only if it is the last option that keeps a brand in the NRL that would cease to exist without that option.

 

[Perth Red]

We disagree on the splitting of games between two markets issue. I think full relocation of clubs could work (Swans / Lions) but only if it is the last option that keeps a brand in the NRL that would cease to exist without that option.

In effect the only way it works is if the license and brand moves to new owners in another city. If a club has had to move because they have gone bust then there isnt going to be any financial benefit of that previous ownership being involved.
Like the Storm it means the new club can hit the ground running as it inherits a chunk of the playing squad and management team, and it may pick up some die hards in Sydney as out of town members. Apart from that there is very little benefit.

 

[Pippen94]

Thats why relocations will NEVER happen! No LC owned NRL club in its right mind is going to hand over the NRl license to another city just so the top grade name continues. And no city is going to want a club who is owned by a Sydney LC and still runs it like a Sydney club that's on holiday. The only chance of relocation is if a Sydney club goes bust and cant find a new owner, but short of fans totally abandoning a club or a LC going broke and being stripped of its assets there is no motivation, desire or intention for anyone to move. Its a pipedream lol.


Dont the unwanted Giants have more members than most Sydney clubs? Just checked, 2019 no NRL club in Sydney or ACT bettered GWS membership number, WTF? Maybe there is something in having dual locations!

Giants spend more money on members than they get back in - defeats purpose of membership. Important not to just accept afl bullshit

 

[Pippen94]

hahahaha!

Tell us more oh wise one....

Melbourne a much bigger city averages 17k viewers & live crowd about the same but you think Adelaide will do better??

 

[Perth Red]

Giants spend more money on members than they get back in - defeats purpose of membership. Important not to just accept afl bullshit

That may be so in past but last year they generated $5.1million in memberships and match day ticket sales. You have to invest for first few years to grow the revenue level long term. Its why NRL was giving NRL clubs money to grow members during Dave Smith's reign, he knew it was a key future source of revenue.
GWS $21.6mill in FC revenue last year before AFL grant which would put them above most NRL clubs. And this from a club that wasnt wanted or needed!

In comparison
2018
Bulldogs Memberships and gate sales $2.3million
Sharks Memberships and gate sales/match day earnings $3.1million
Eels Memberships and gate sales/match day earnings $2.8million
Panthers Memberships and gate sales/match day earnings $1.7million
Roosters Memberships and gate sales/match day earnings $3.7million

It really is quite staggering that NRL clubs fail to drive up revenue through their fanbases so badly. Surely the clubs above have a bigger fanbase than GWS????

 

[mongoose]

Thats why relocations will NEVER happen! No LC owned NRL club in its right mind is going to hand over the NRl license to another city just so the top grade name continues. And no city is going to want a club who is owned by a Sydney LC and still runs it like a Sydney club that's on holiday. The only chance of relocation is if a Sydney club goes bust and cant find a new owner, but short of fans totally abandoning a club or a LC going broke and being stripped of its assets there is no motivation, desire or intention for anyone to move. Its a pipedream lol.


Dont the unwanted Giants have more members than most Sydney clubs? Just checked, 2019 no NRL club in Sydney or ACT bettered GWS membership number, WTF? Maybe there is something in having dual locations!

does anyone believe those fudged Giants membership numbers though? this club apparently has 30k members and yet they got 15k to a home final.... and 50% of the crowd were away supporters!

 

[Perth Red]

does anyone believe those fudged Giants membership numbers though? this club apparently has 30k members and yet they got 15k to a home final.... and 50% of the crowd were away supporters!

I think its very easy to claim something you dont like as false lol. Generally if you are going to discredit something you need some level of argument or opposite fact. Using the crowds v memberships, true but the membership is split over 2 cities and as we have seen with Souths, memberships doesn't always equal bums on seats.
Id say its possible they're fudged until you see the GWS 2019 audited financial report which shows a revenue in this area of $5.1mill which would tally with those sort of figures. They may well be inflating the numer with free jnr memberships or something I don't know, but its not a bad marketing ploy if they are and somethign I have no idea why NRL clubs arent doing! I'd be giving every registered RL Jnr in the NRL club region a free membership with 1 free game ticket and a cheap cap or something.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Melbourne a much bigger city averages 17k viewers & live crowd about the same but you think Adelaide will do better??

They will do far better than your 10k suggested. Refer to my original post in the thread for supporting factors.

If you’re open minded you may learn a bit more about the subject. But if you wish to stick with your “expert” comment and the number you pulled out of your arse then good for you.

 

[Perth Red]

They will do far better than your 10k suggested. Refer to my original post in the thread for supporting factors.

If you’re open minded you may learn a bit more about the subject. But if you wish to stick with your “expert” comment and the number you pulled out of your arse then good for you.

Its such a rubbish argument. Take out three Sydney clubs and the remaining games will still avg 250k-300k in Sydney. Whats the point in paying for them when they dont add any more viewers? Its a dumb argument. Tv audiences are consistent within 10-20% across time slots regardless of whose playing. Add in a ninth game with any two team you like and it will add 200-250k to PTV audience on Sunday or 350k plus to metro FTA audience on a Saturday night. It doesn't matter which two teams it is.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Its such a rubbish argument. Take out three Sydney clubs and the remaining games will still avg 250k-300k in Sydney. Whats the point in paying for them when they dont add any more viewers? Its a dumb argument. Tv audiences are consistent within 10-20% across time slots regardless of whose playing. Add in a ninth game with any two team you like and it will add 200-250k to PTV audience on Sunday or 350k plus to metro FTA audience on a Saturday night. It doesn't matter which two teams it is.

Further to that...

The Storm compete with 9 established AFL Teams in Melbourne. 9...... While some fans may cross over and go to Storm games as well, that's a huge amount of competition for a "foreign" code. But they've managed to establish themselves and outperform most (all?) Sydney clubs on average crowds, like my own.

Meanwhile an Adelaide or Perth RL team would compete with 2 AFL teams only (if you include Fremantle with the Eagles). Smaller cities than Melbourne but cities that back anything with their name on it.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

We disagree on the splitting of games between two markets issue. I think full relocation of clubs could work (Swans / Lions) but only if it is the last option that keeps a brand in the NRL that would cease to exist without that option.

The only way I can see Perth in the NRL is if they buy into an existing club. PVL ruled out expansion and forced relocation.

I cannot see a Sydney club accepting anything other than a lucrative buy-in from a wealthy investor that makes them a powerhouse of the NRL. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were willing to take low drawing games against interstate teams to Perth, provided they were paid handsomely. A Broncos or Cowboys vs Tigers game could draw more in Perth than Campbelltown.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Further to that...

The Storm compete with 9 established AFL Teams in Melbourne. 9...... While some fans may cross over and go to Storm games as well, that's a huge amount of competition for a "foreign" code. But they've managed to establish themselves and outperform most (all?) Sydney clubs on average crowds, like my own.

Meanwhile an Adelaide or Perth RL team would compete with 2 AFL teams only (if you include Fremantle with the Eagles). Smaller cities than Melbourne but cities that back anything with their name on it.

Maybe I am too cynical about Adelaide and Perth. I think Perth in 1995 was a far easier environment to crack into than now. The Reds went bust in their debut season and had to be bailed out by News Ltd. One of the blokes who was part of the Reds, Peter Cumins, is now heading the Pirates bid. It doesn't fill me with confidence that the current bid is led by some one who failed the first time around.

My biggest fear with Adelaide and Perth is public interest will nosedive unless their teams are always winning. The odds of the Storm, Adelaide and Perth being successful every year is very remote.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Maybe I am too cynical about Adelaide and Perth. I think Perth in 1995 was a far easier environment to crack into than now. The Reds went bust in their debut season and had to be bailed out by News Ltd. One of the blokes who was part of the Reds, Peter Cumins, is now heading the Pirates bid. It doesn't fill me with confidence that the current bid is led by some one who failed the first time around.

My biggest fear with Adelaide and Perth is public interest will nosedive unless their teams are always winning. The odds of the Storm, Adelaide and Perth being successful every year is very remote.

Mate you are right with the winning thing. To sell a new product to a city like Adelaide or Perth if the team is ordinary will be like selling Ham Sandwiches at Mecca. They've gotta be competitive early, exciting to watch to get people on the hook and engaged to keep coming back. Not just for novelty factor which isn't sustainable.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Mate you are right with the winning thing. To sell a new product to a city like Adelaide or Perth if the team is ordinary will be like selling Ham Sandwiches at Mecca. They've gotta be competitive early, exciting to watch to get people on the hook and engaged to keep coming back. Not just for novelty factor which isn't sustainable.

I can see one team being on top, but all three at once is near impossible and if it did happen it would have everyone from the heartland states saying it's rigged.

 

[Perth Red]

The advantages perth has now that it didn’t have in 95
Ten times better stadium
Cumins is worth a shed load more money
There are more nrl fans as shown by numerous 21.5k sell outs at nib, 34k and 60k at Optus for rl events
Not being hamstrung by stupid travel cost agreement
An elite jnr program that’s been operating for a number of years now
An extra 1million people in the city
A lot more wealthy businesses in perth
No SL sending inflation sky rocketing
No news ltd white anting the club board

you really can’t compare 2020 to 1995, or future pirates to past reds anymore than you should compare the failed crushers to a future Brisbane2 bid,, they are chalk and cheese.