The coach.

[Rich102]

I know a number of you think it was a stupid move to release Cleary. Subsequent events have been disasterous for the club.
But I watched the Panthers yesterday and I could see Cleary's style all over them. No width, big forwards, kick to the wings.
He's not the worst coach, by a long way, but I can't see him coaching a Grand Final winning team.

Elliott will get his chance but he has a serious up-hill battle with this squad. Perhaps when he gets some injured players back he can make some changes but plenty of changes will be required,

I don't think our squad is too hot. Yes, most of this squad got to a Grand Final a couple of years ago but that was then and this is now.

We were supposed to have bought Elliott because he had the experiance and could turn things around - time will tell.

If the only reason we didn't get Bellamy was that he couldn't start immediately I think it will be the biggest mistake the Warriors have ever made. And they have made a good number.

I think there are a number of players in the current roster who are toxic. Not putting in the effort and affecting those around them. Priority must be given to getting rid of them. It will hurt but must be done. Supposedly Inu was cut because of his effect on morale - he wasn't anywhere as unsettling as some that are still there.

We are due for some signings- big ones. Before this happens I hope somebody looks at where the club is going and what style of football we are going to play.

I don't think our juniors are as well coached as other teams. They win because the are bigger and more physically mature than other teams. And, even at U20's level, they don't stick to game plans.

The Warriors need to make some important decisions and I am not confident the management have the skills to make the right ones.

 

[Micistm]

I know what you mean, IMO some have short memories of Cleary, who coached very similiar to how he played. No frills, kinda low profile paint by numbers stuff.
I'm not saying he's a bad coach either, in many ways he seemed to suit the Warriors. But he had his moments of slumps, his stubborness of sticking with things that just weren't working, the one dimensional kick it to Manu stuff.

I'm sure like many fans I've had a gutsful of this club. Since '95 we've had this same thing of Lazy D, sloppy mistakes and far too many penalties in the game. Cleary does deserve credit for reducing that. But how many coaches do we have to blame and chug through before other staff members, especially players and at least one CEO, take some responsibility?
All teams have some poor form moments, ours seem to be the default setting. Maybe that makes the good times seem sweeter, sitting through rubbish to have a little burst of enjoyment, but it just seems to never ever change.
Would it take us getting that Supercoach, and seeing the same dumb shit pulled out before the realisation it may not be all the coaches fault afterall? ;-)

 

[Rebel]

I was never a huge fan of Ivan. Made some silly selections and really ruined our 09 season with persisting in Stacey. Regardless, we did make the final in 2011. He left, Mclennan came and the rest is history.
IMO Mclennan really set the club back almost single handedly. Not sure Matt Elliot is the man to fix his mess.

 

[Skinner]

Good post Rich - wholeheartedly agree

 

[playdaball]

Over the past 2 years the following coaches (apparently) have not been up to the required standards :

Clearly
Bluey
Iro
Elliot

Based on this my question is ....

Who selects the coaches??? That is perhaps where the major issues lies?

 

[Rich102]

Over the past 2 years the following coaches (apparently) have not been up to the required standards :

Clearly
Bluey
Iro
Elliot

Based on this my question is ....

Who selects the coaches??? That is perhaps where the major issues lies?

And/or who selects the squad he has at his disposal?
And who makes the hard calls about culling the slackers?

 

[playdaball]

I know a number of you think it was a stupid move to release Cleary. Subsequent events have been disasterous for the club.
But I watched the Panthers yesterday and I could see Cleary's style all over them. No width, big forwards, kick to the wings.
He's not the worst coach, by a long way, but I can't see him coaching a Grand Final winning team.

Elliott will get his chance but he has a serious up-hill battle with this squad. Perhaps when he gets some injured players back he can make some changes but plenty of changes will be required,

I don't think our squad is too hot. Yes, most of this squad got to a Grand Final a couple of years ago but that was then and this is now.

We were supposed to have bought Elliott because he had the experiance and could turn things around - time will tell.

If the only reason we didn't get Bellamy was that he couldn't start immediately I think it will be the biggest mistake the Warriors have ever made. And they have made a good number.

I think there are a number of players in the current roster who are toxic. Not putting in the effort and affecting those around them. Priority must be given to getting rid of them. It will hurt but must be done. Supposedly Inu was cut because of his effect on morale - he wasn't anywhere as unsettling as some that are still there.

We are due for some signings- big ones. Before this happens I hope somebody looks at where the club is going and what style of football we are going to play.

I don't think our juniors are as well coached as other teams. They win because the are bigger and more physically mature than other teams. And, even at U20's level, they don't stick to game plans.

The Warriors need to make some important decisions and I am not confident the management have the skills to make the right ones.

Rich ... Who are these toxic players you refer to?

 

[ozbash]

And/or who selects the squad he has at his disposal?
And who makes the hard calls about culling the slackers?

yep, pretty much spot on imo.. I think the selectors have an awful lot to answer for.

Rate John Ackland very highly.

 

[Meth]

I'm of the opinion that our club is always going to do better with a disciplinarian type coach. A Daniel Anderson. An Ivan Cleary. I was a bit disillusioned with Cleary, but he's done better with the club than anyone else has. How he goes at Penrith is largely irrelevant to me.

We never should signed McClennan, but it was damaging for us to axe him like we did. We never should have hired Elliot, but now that we have, and considering the damage that a repeat of the handling that McClennan copped would cause, we must stick with him for 2013 and 2014.

 

[Rich102]

Rich ... Who are these toxic players you refer to?

I am not prepared to name them publicly. Their influence is a matter of rumor.
Let me just say it is pretty apparent who is going missing when it is time to do the hard work.

 

[ozbash]

I'm of the opinion that our club is always going to do better with a disciplinarian type coach. A Daniel Anderson. An Ivan Cleary. I was a bit disillusioned with Cleary, but he's done better with the club than anyone else has. How he goes at Penrith is largely irrelevant to me.

We never should signed McClennan, but it was damaging for us to axe him like we did. We never should have hired Elliot, but now that we have, and considering the damage that a repeat of the handling that McClennan copped would cause, we must stick with him for 2013 and 2014.

you gotta ask why Ivan left,, after all this drama over the last 2 seasons.

was he pushed, could he see the writing on the wall, did he get wind of some changes to the way the club/coaching dept was being run ?

Why did Hart pack his bag around the same time ?

Was it Iro/Blueys/Elliotts profound lack of coaching ability that has f**ked up this team ?

I don't think so.....

 

[ozbash]

BTW, we now have 2 groups within 1.

the ex U20's and the senior players, is this good or are they clashing ?

 

[Diesel]

you gotta ask why Ivan left,, after all this drama over the last 2 seasons.

was he pushed, could he see the writing on the wall, did he get wind of some changes to the way the club/coaching dept was being run ?

Why did Hart pack his bag around the same time ?

Was it Iro/Blueys/Elliotts profound lack of coaching ability that has f**ked up this team ?

I don't think so.....

I tend to agree with you. The clear out should've happened when Bluey got his marching orders

 

[Micistm]

I am not prepared to name them publicly. Their influence is a matter of rumor.
Let me just say it is pretty apparent who is going missing when it is time to do the hard work.

Nathan Friend agrees with you- often- on his Radio Sport hour. He's not prepared to name names for obvious reasons, but he has admitted he can tell when certain players are not giving their all on the field, and as apparent as doggies ones.
Only being an armchair athelete I can only guess...but if it's obvious to Friend it has to be obvious to other players and coaches, both watching and playing in opposition. And while we can blame the coach for not putting a bomb under these slackarses, with little depth and many injuries, where does a coach go? It's kind of like a kid who knows all about the anti smacking law...got em by the nads:lol:

 

[Micistm]

IMO we need more Aussie influence, more professionalism. Not just coach, but players and management as well. It's just amateur hour atm.
It's often been mentioned Bluey was a great coach when it came to one offs, tests etc but not as good for week in week out grind. That sounds like out kiwi players as well, who do well every few games against Aussie, but all too often go back to their mistake riddled penalty giving lazy ways.
The Warriors are that all over. Take those players out from the group, put them in Aussie teams through the NRL, watch them shine. Put them back all together and the laid back attitude comes back into play.
Should the whole club just pack up and settle in Aussie somewhere ;-)

 

[Micistm]

Better yet, lets just relocate to the Phillipinnes and call ourselves The Manilla Folders

 

[ozbash]

Better yet, lets just relocate to the Phillipinnes and call ourselves The Manilla Folders

:lol: noice..

 

[Iafeta]

you gotta ask why Ivan left,, after all this drama over the last 2 seasons.

was he pushed, could he see the writing on the wall, did he get wind of some changes to the way the club/coaching dept was being run ?

Why did Hart pack his bag around the same time ?

Was it Iro/Blueys/Elliotts profound lack of coaching ability that has f**ked up this team ?

I don't think so.....

I actually thought it was clear cut. Wayne Scurrah decided he didn't think Ivan could win a Grand Final. And he thought Brian McClennan sold him a tale of a magnum of 1746 classic champagne, but really all Bluey brought with him was gypsy tears and an eye dropper into a marmite jar.

How it happened was Gould contacted Cleary and asked if he would come to the Panthers. Offered him a good tenure. Showed belief in him. Cleary was happy to stay at the Warriors. He wanted a re-sign though. He only had a year to go on his contract, and the Warriors had been umming and aahing. Eventually Scurrah for Bluey's gypsy tears and he allowed Cleary to sign elsewhere.

Ultimately, Scurrah fell for the biggest magic trick since Shoeless Joe stepped onto a baseball field from the dead.

Ultimately, Scurrah has now got rid of Cleary, McClennan, and then put all his own stock in Elliott. Surely if Elliott fails Scurrah and Bell MUST go. They're earning a reputation around the league as Sigfried and one half of Roy, masters of illusion and smoke and mirrors.

 

[Iafeta]

I'm of the opinion that our club is always going to do better with a disciplinarian type coach. A Daniel Anderson. An Ivan Cleary. I was a bit disillusioned with Cleary, but he's done better with the club than anyone else has. How he goes at Penrith is largely irrelevant to me.

We never should signed McClennan, but it was damaging for us to axe him like we did. We never should have hired Elliot, but now that we have, and considering the damage that a repeat of the handling that McClennan copped would cause, we must stick with him for 2013 and 2014.

Correct. Its irrelevant because they have completely different aims - the Panthers have been logical and realistic and asked Cleary to come in, clear out the deadwood and the cancers, and start the process of rebuilding the football club with Gould from the ground up. Like he did at the Warriors.

The Warriors are completely ignorant, because likewise after last year it was clear there needed to be a reconstruction of the club. But you hear the delusionary tales about the expectation still being top 4, grand final, etc. They're aiming for something mentally they're not prepared for.

 

[joseph1]

I have heard enough of blaming coaches. Sure, we have lost 3/3 in Elliot's watch. But you have to eliminate the other 8 losses from that track record since that was not at all his fault. And he is now in the process of trying to get the team who played a horrible brand of footy in 2012 to buy into a wole new setup and that takes time. The second half of this year is when the wins will come. What people are realising is Elliot is not a miracle worker. And I daresay not even Bennett or Bellamy themselves could have turned around our 2012 in a matter of months. Give the team time, have some faith, and fingers crossed for a better performance tonight.