The only way to get rid of the cancer that is sheens

[madunit]

Lui was slotted in there. Miller has had a go. Moltzen was meant to be there as well. The only f**ked up thing here in my opinion is that Moltzen shouldn't have been moved from the halves to fullback this season however that is my opinion. Moltzen has stated he prefers fullback.

Yeah Moltzen only says that to make Sheens look right.

Its abundantly clear to all that he belongs in the halves with Benji. His skill set is much more designed for that.

Miller hasn't actually really had a go. 2 games out of 50 essentially, thats not really a fair go, shit, Fulton, Ayshford and Lawrence this year alone have played more games in the halves than Miller has over the last 2 seasons.

Therein is the biggest issue this coach has.

Sure Milelr may not be ready to be a permanent fixture at 7, but you can't tell me he's a worse option to play at 7 than a second rower and two centres with the ball playing and kicking ability of an old relaxed pig.

 

[R2Coupe]

as I said in another thread just now, the only way you'll begone of Sheens is if someone well-known and respected, like an ex-player or coach etc, continually and publicly questions Sheens.

Sheens and the Tigers don't care for the clubs fans anywhere near as much as other clubs, Sheens himself has even attacked a lot of this clubs fans.

A revolt at fan level won't achieve anything.

Perhaps the well-known and respected ex players understand Sheens is doing a good job.

I couldn't possibly understand why Sheens would attack some of the clubs' own fans, unless of course they were some of the ferals from this forum.

 

[Matchball]

What's the good job exactly?
What facet of his coaching is worth keeping him on indefinitely?
2 finals apprearances since 2005 and that's considered a good job?

Our defence sucks. Worst in the comp.
Our attack has been ordinary all year.
Team selections have been woeful.

I'm failing to see anything super about Sheens that Jim Dymock couldn't do.
Get Folkes has head coach and we will make finals every year.

 

[Magpies Forever]

R2, mate, lets agree to disagree on Teflon's acumen and skills but something that has annoyed a lot of people here, including I hope you too, is the way Sheens is not questioned by the media etc about some of the options he has chosen for the side- both in selections and plays.

What confounds me, and eventually makes me angry / despondent (in varying degrees) is that the same questions I/we want asked of Sheens are so often put to other coaches for lesser events or shorter term trends that Sheens has done and yet Sheens never gets asked them.

Sheens may very well have good reasons to do what he does but he never is called on to explain them and hence, the frustration grows amongst we 'so called fans' that follow our team and yet have the temerity to question what he does and the results he has achieved. I dont believe any one is infallible- even the Pope gave that one up, Sheens is not god, was never god and he is a man. Why is he such a protected species amongst the press corps and sports show hosts? Hell, they give Farah / Marshall a slight grilling every now and then but Sheens never gets it.

 

[Magpies Forever]

What's the good job exactly?
What facet of his coaching is worth keeping him on indefinitely?
2 finals apprearances since 2005 and that's considered a good job?

Our defence sucks. Worst in the comp.
Our attack has been ordinary all year.
Team selections have been woeful.

I'm failing to see anything super about Sheens that Jim Dymock couldn't do.
Get Folkes has head coach and we will make finals every year.

Recall the sacking of our CEO that dared question Sheens and look at installing KPI's? Recall the affronted Sheens saying this is not a business, its a game (or words to that effect..........) Even basic standards like you have noted are never used to hold Teflon to account. WT board and the CEO are just as culpable as Sheens.

We have a good middle range club- rarely capable of winning the comp but can play good football at times, they are not expected to perform consistently nor be held to account for failing. Its a great place to be a player with the in crowd and a bad place to be a player looking for a shot. WT have a great social and ethical behaviour but do not have the hard guts and knock 'em down attitude to actually want to dominate the game and win a comp.

IMHO, WT under Sheens are the nice guys. Its not a bad thing, just its not good enough though for a professional NRL football team in 2012. But as you say Sheens just blythely goes on....................

 

[Matchball]

It's all self preservation for those involved.
Everyone has a job as long as Sheens has one so the board let it go.

The way he nurtured Benji and co to be his allies was genius. Any talk of a sacking would turn the team against the board.

 

[Pistol_Pete]

If the players don't have a desire to test themselves under a better coach then they can go and get f**ked with Sheens. The likes of Benji and Farah are son going to be looking back on their careers with regret wondering why they didn't achieve more with the sides we have had. Throw the likes of Ellis, Lawrence, Woods, Galloway, Prince (06), Lote, Fulton, Gibbs and if this side finishes with 1 comp when they are done then they have underachieved, and the sole reason for it is Sheens and his acceptance of mediocrity and refusal to adapt. Benji and his brain snaps should have been hauled into line years ago. Do you see Thurston do it, or Lockyer ? I have always said our players keep f**king up because there are no ramifications or repercussions felt when they f**k up. Don't blame the child, blame the parent

 

[hybrid_tiger]

I don't know how good he is as a coach

You just told me he is a good coach. So what is it, he's a good coach or not?

I also know that anyone stating that he is a shithouse coach has either played under him, is trolling or is full of shit.

At the end of the day, coaches are judged by the W's in the win column, are they not? I am stating facts here.

Royce was at the Panthers for seven years, won a wooden spoon, only finished in the top 8 twice in his time there. 41% win record. Was eventually sacked.

He was sacked from the second year of his St Helens job for poor performance.

In the time he was our defensive coach, our defense was f**king abysmal most of the time.

So you tell me one logical reason why we would employ somebody who has failed at every single rugby league coaching job he's held so far in his career? Just one f**king reason.

What I found interesting were Royce's words at the start of his second season at St Helens (just before he was sacked).

?They expect to win. They do not accept not winning."

?I'd better hold a bit of silverware up this year or I'll be on the plane. That's how things are."

You've got to be a winner or you don't exist too long. And that's good.?

The problem at this club is that the people who matter accept not winning. Bringing back a man who is a proven failure as an assistant coach just proves that.

If you can't see an issue with Royce coming back you're seriously f**king deluded. Even the most one-eyed fan could surely question this.

 

[N.C.]

:lol:

Lacking rational thought?

Before Folkes we were a shambles who had not made a finals series since 2005, teams knew we had a weak underbelly and our defence would crumble if pressured long enough.

Royce leave, Folkes comes in and we make two finals on the back of winning ugly when we had to and having a defence to be proud of on alot more occasions.

Folkes leaves, Sheens brings in a yes man in Georgalis, lets Skandalis a guy with no experience or serious qualifications take over as our fitness, strength and conditioning coach and we are back to the same unchallenged, mentally fragile rubbish

Must have been all those secret defensive sessions Folkes was holding with the team while Sheens wasn't looking. I remember reading all about those...

 

[super_coach]

Let me know if you get a response...

Ive thought about doing the same, but why the f**k should I give up years of going to the Orange Grove and LO games with my mates ( some of whom its the only time I get to see them these days...) just to get rid of that farkwit??

No I did not get a response, did it a few weeks ago. In the past Humpty has always replied but not this time. Iam okay with it, it means I will not have to make those long trek to Cambo because I feel guilty Iam not using my membership.

Iam not saying I will not go to the odd game but I will not buy a membership till Sheens and all his mates are on their bike

 

[R2Coupe]

R2, mate, lets agree to disagree on Teflon's acumen and skills but something that has annoyed a lot of people here, including I hope you too, is the way Sheens is not questioned by the media etc about some of the options he has chosen for the side- both in selections and plays.

What confounds me, and eventually makes me angry / despondent (in varying degrees) is that the same questions I/we want asked of Sheens are so often put to other coaches for lesser events or shorter term trends that Sheens has done and yet Sheens never gets asked them.

Sheens may very well have good reasons to do what he does but he never is called on to explain them and hence, the frustration grows amongst we 'so called fans' that follow our team and yet have the temerity to question what he does and the results he has achieved. I dont believe any one is infallible- even the Pope gave that one up, Sheens is not god, was never god and he is a man. Why is he such a protected species amongst the press corps and sports show hosts? Hell, they give Farah / Marshall a slight grilling every now and then but Sheens never gets it.

His level of accountability and to whom/who is is accountable is probably written on a contract.

I don't expect to be told why player x is preferred over player y. Or. one player is preferred in one position over another.

At this stage of the season, and based on performance, the growling on this forum is totally unwarranted.

It was an outstanding performance by the team last Friday and demonstrates players do respond to Sheens. Indeed, I would not hesitate to add some of our players may not be with the club without him.

 

[Tiger05]

I couldn't possibly understand why Sheens would attack some of the clubs' own fans, unless of course they were some of the ferals from this forum.

This is gold.

 

[Matchball]

I would not hesitate to add some of our players may not be with the club without him.

Who is to say that other clubs would be interested in Sheens?
He might get a gig at bottom dwelling club but no other top 8 club would take him. A stint in super league might humble him when he gets punted after a season.
And if players want out because the coach gets the boot, they can f**k off with him to a bottom dweller or the UK.

 

[Tiger05]

:lol:

Lacking rational thought?

Before Folkes we were a shambles who had not made a finals series since 2005, teams knew we had a weak underbelly and our defence would crumble if pressured long enough.

Royce leave, Folkes comes in and we make two finals on the back of winning ugly when we had to and having a defence to be proud of on alot more occasions.

Folkes leaves, Sheens brings in a yes man in Georgalis, lets Skandalis a guy with no experience or serious qualifications take over as our fitness, strength and conditioning coach and we are back to the same unchallenged, mentally fragile rubbish

This is a pretty good link:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Give it a go.

 

[Tiger05]

Yeah Moltzen only says that to make Sheens look right.

Its abundantly clear to all that he belongs in the halves with Benji. His skill set is much more designed for that

This I agree with and Sheens decision with hindsight does appear to be wrong however who knows what Sheens is thinking.

 

[Tiger05]

You just told me he is a good coach. So what is it, he's a good coach or not?



At the end of the day, coaches are judged by the W's in the win column, are they not? I am stating facts here.

Royce was at the Panthers for seven years, won a wooden spoon, only finished in the top 8 twice in his time there. 41% win record. Was eventually sacked.

He was sacked from the second year of his St Helens job for poor performance.

In the time he was our defensive coach, our defense was f**king abysmal most of the time.

So you tell me one logical reason why we would employ somebody who has failed at every single rugby league coaching job he's held so far in his career? Just one f**king reason.

What I found interesting were Royce's words at the start of his second season at St Helens (just before he was sacked).

“They expect to win. They do not accept not winning."

“I'd better hold a bit of silverware up this year or I'll be on the plane. That's how things are."

You've got to be a winner or you don't exist too long. And that's good.”

The problem at this club is that the people who matter accept not winning. Bringing back a man who is a proven failure as an assistant coach just proves that.

If you can't see an issue with Royce coming back you're seriously f**king deluded. Even the most one-eyed fan could surely question this.

Good arguments and I can see your point to a degree.

I think judging any coach is hard though because his job is highly dependent on the players that he has at his disposal. Add to that Royce having an assistant role within the club and it really makes it hard to state what his impact was.

 

[Tiger05]

Must have been all those secret defensive sessions Folkes was holding with the team while Sheens wasn't looking. I remember reading all about those...

This is an outright lie. Folkes was ahead of his time and was imprinting into the players brains defensive patterns whilst conducting hill runs just via his presence. Our forum brothers were there jogging along with the team and picking up all the Folkes wisdom.

Those were the good old days.

 

[Ron's_Mate]

Royce was at the Panthers for seven years, won a wooden spoon, only finished in the top 8 twice in his time there. 41% win record. Was eventually sacked.

He was sacked from the second year of his St Helens job for poor performance.

In the time he was our defensive coach, our defense was f**king abysmal most of the time.

So you tell me one logical reason why we would employ somebody who has failed at every single rugby league coaching job he's held so far in his career? Just one f**king reason.

Everyone deserves a fifth or sixth chance ... :sarcasm:

 

[gronkathon]

More to the point with Folkes all of the comments from the playing group were about how hard the off season was, how excuses and the usual mucking around was not accepted.

 

[Matchball]

The warriors board has guts and running the club without nepotism.
Mcclennen makes the grand final last year and fails this year and he gets the boot.

Now that's how it should be done Humph.