The Pride thread 🌈

[lucablight]

Dunno if jesus even told people that ... they were scared that other people saw him as that

He probably saw himself as the King of God’s coming Kingdom (which was going to be here on earth not just in a spiritual sense) after judgment day. There’s a line in the gospels where he tells the disciples that those twelve would rule under him. One of those twelve is Judas. It’s highly unlikely a Christian would have made up a line where Jesus incorrectly predicts Judas would be one of the Kings ruling under him so it’s likely it came from his own lips.

 

[Happy MEel]

Are you intolerant if you won't promote something? Surely the idea that something is tolerated means it isn't accepted as being right. I tolerate people I don't like. I don't 'tolerate' my friends and family. I love them and talk them up when I can.

I don’t think “right” comes into it. It’s a different perspective. I’m sure your friends and family love you and talk you up as well. We here on LU tolerate you.

 

[lucablight]

They killed him because the Jewish leaders asked them to. 'King of the Jews' was an insult to him and to the Jewish leaders.

This is why you need to read the history on it. As I previously said the Romans would not have cared about one Jew offending the sensibilities of another Jew. Jesus probably did see himself as the King of the Jews.

 

[strider]

I don’t think we’re having the same argument. I couldn’t give two shits what their beliefs are. They are entitled to them, no matter how much I disagree with them. One might say I tolerate them. We’re talking about an employer mandated uniform that an employee is required to wear in order to undertake the duties of their employment.

Misguided mandates rock!

 

[Happy MEel]

Misguided mandates rock!

Oh shit, we’re not resurrecting the COVID thread again FFS

 

[Poupou Escobar]

That’s the account in the gospels (which are coincidentally enough written in Greek (the language of the Romans not the Jews).

The f**k, merkin? Greek was the lingua franca of the time. Everybody spoke it, including the Romans, but their own language was Latin.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I don’t think we’re having the same argument. I couldn’t give two shits what their beliefs are. They are entitled to them, no matter how much I disagree with them. One might say I tolerate them. We’re talking about an employer mandated uniform that an employee is required to wear in order to undertake the duties of their employment.

Agreed, but then that's between them and the employer. Accusations of bigotry have no place.

 

[lucablight]

The f**k, merkin? Greek was the lingua franca of the time. Everybody spoke it, including the Romans, but their own language was Latin.

Most people were illiterate and couldn’t write. Only rich people were able to afford an education. The gospels are written in Greek. Funnily enough Jesus himself spoke Aramaic. Quite the coincidence that someone writing in Greek tries to soften the blow of Jesus’ death against the Romans and blame it on the Jewish people.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

He probably saw himself as the King of God’s coming Kingdom (which was going to be here on earth not just in a spiritual sense)

Hold on merkin. You're talking about a man famous for parables (i.e. metaphors) and you're deciding when he should be taken literally?

 

[lucablight]

Hold on merkin. You're talking about a man famous for parables (i.e. metaphors) and you're deciding when he should be taken literally?

If you view him as an apocalyptic preacher then yes. His words make far more sense that way.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I don’t think “right” comes into it.

Well it does. We tolerate many things that we (most of us) consider to be wrong, if they are legal. Examples include lies, infidelity, greed, arrogance, etc. Most people would say those things aren't right. But we tolerate them. I wouldn't think anyone would try to force others to celebrate them.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

This is why you need to read the history on it. As I previously said the Romans would not have cared about one Jew offending the sensibilities of another Jew. Jesus probably did see himself as the King of the Jews.

No I think you're wrong. Whatever history you've been reading is either flawed or you didn't understand it. Most likely you had a teacher who was trying to push an ideology onto you.

 

[lucablight]

No I think you're wrong. Whatever history you've been reading is either flawed or you didn't understand it. Most likely you had a teacher who was trying to push an ideology onto you.

It’s the overwhelming consensus view by most bible scholars (including Christian scholars). If you’re interested in reading up on what people who study the bible for a living have to say about it then there’s a really good resource for you here

Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet - History for Atheists

The idea that the historical Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet remains the most likely interpretation of the evidence about who and what he was.

historyforatheists.com

 

[eels_fan]

38% of respondents in Australia (a mere 4.8M people) said NO and are therefore no different to the Manly 7.

Imo those 38% of people are far worse than the Manly 7 (and it’s actually more than 7 as some of the cup boys also refused when called up to replace the original 7), because them voting yes was not going to make any change to their lives, nor did they have to make any public statement or action, but it would have made the lives of others easier, fairer and fuller.

It was never a pride jersey - that was a media coined phrase - it was as “Everyone In” jersey that was representing all minority groups including people with physical disability, cognitive disability etc who also use a rainbow flag for their cause. The media turned this into a purely Pride/LGBTQ story. That is what seems to have been lost on people. Wearing the rainbow stripe wasn’t to say “i support gay marriage” it was to say “I believe everyone has equal rights to inclusiveness and our club includes everyone”. It appears that was explained better to the Manly boys today and they have agreed to wear it next year.

I hope the entire NRL picks this up next year and runs with it, it is important.

any players that then don’t want to wear the jersey can sit on the sideline, without pay.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Most people were illiterate and couldn’t write. Only rich people were able to afford an education.

It's still like this in many parts of the world.

The gospels are written in Greek. Funnily enough Jesus himself spoke Aramaic.

What's funny about it? Aramaic was the language spoken by Jews in Galilee at the time.

Quite the coincidence that someone writing in Greek tries to soften the blow of Jesus’ death against the Romans and blame it on the Jewish people.

Soften the blow? Neither Jew nor Roman came out of the Gospels looking like the good guy. But it was written in Greek to reach the widest audience, which included non-Romans and non-Jews. It could've been written in Latin or Hebrew if it was intended for a specific audience. In fact plenty could have been written about Jesus in both languages, and plenty more in Greek. But the four Gospels are the accounts that survived all the accidents of history. It is absolutely 'quite the coincidence' unless you accept the premise that God is real. In that case it's hard to see anything as a coincidence.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

It’s the overwhelming consensus view by most bible scholars (including Christian scholars). If you’re interested in reading up on what people who study the bible for a living have to say about it then there’s a really good resource for you here

Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet - History for Atheists

The idea that the historical Jesus was a Jewish apocalyptic prophet remains the most likely interpretation of the evidence about who and what he was.

historyforatheists.com

I'm not sure I trust anyone who studies the Bible 'for a living'. How do they make a living out of it? Who pays them, and why?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Have we signed anyone? Or has poor NBrown been analed to another club yet?

ffs merkin stop changing the subject!

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Imo those 38% of people are far worse than the Manly 7 (and it’s actually more than 7 as some of the cup boys also refused when called up to replace the original 7), because them voting yes was not going to make any change to their lives, nor did they have to make any public statement or action, but it would have made the lives of others easier, fairer and fuller.

It was never a pride jersey - that was a media coined phrase - it was as “Everyone In” jersey that was representing all minority groups including people with physical disability, cognitive disability etc who also use a rainbow flag for their cause. The media turned this into a purely Pride/LGBTQ story. That is what seems to have been lost on people. Wearing the rainbow stripe wasn’t to say “i support gay marriage” it was to say “I believe everyone has equal rights to inclusiveness and our club includes everyone”. It appears that was explained better to the Manly boys today and they have agreed to wear it next year.

I hope the entire NRL picks this up next year and runs with it, it is important.

any players that then don’t want to wear the jersey can sit on the sideline, without pay.

Pretty good article in ocker centrist bogmag Crikey: https://www.crikey.com.au/2022/07/28/manly-players-sea-eagles-pride-jersey/

 

[lucablight]

It's still like this in many parts of the world.

What's funny about it? Aramaic was the language spoken by Jews in Galilee at the time.
Soften the blow? Neither Jew nor Roman came out of the Gospels looking like the good guy. But it was written in Greek to reach the widest audience, which included non-Romans and non-Jews. It could've been written in Latin or Hebrew if it was intended for a specific audience. In fact plenty could have been written about Jesus in both languages, and plenty more in Greek. But the four Gospels are the accounts that survived all the accidents of history. It is absolutely 'quite the coincidence' unless you accept the premise that God is real. In that case it's hard to see anything as a coincidence.

It’s funny that Jesus spoke Aramaic yet the stories about him were written by anonymous Greek speakers rather than eyewitnesses who knew him.
We shouldn’t conflate each of the gospels into one text either. They all have their own voices. I don’t think any of them were necessarily written to reach the largest possible audience. They were written for that particular audience (which happened to speak Greek). It’s pretty clear some of the gospels go out of their way to minimise the responsibility of the Romans and place the blame at the hands of the Jews.

 

[strider]

Oh shit, we’re not resurrecting the COVID thread again FFS

Nah thats been neatly swept under the rug