The real World Game

[screeny]

screeny, screeny screeny,

You have misread and/or misinterpreted the post. You have latched onto some imagined remark and run at a 100mph in the wrong direction. I realise this is par for the course for you, but you must understand how stupid you look when you take this tack.

My post was neither anti League or pro Rugby. It was a statement of the differences between the two codes at a point in time.

I played league at junior level and had all costs covered by the club. I didn't ask for that as a prerequisite, they just thought it necessary....it wasn't.

Mate, how else can one interpret "League has evolved to the point that players at all levels want a free ride." followed up with "I played league at junior level and had all costs covered by the club."

These aren't imagined remarks, as you claim, they're quotes.

The amateur era of rugby which you're so gushing about was about as amateur as rugby league was. Face the facts and stop perpetuating the fib of amatuer rugby. The British govt didn't take RU's amateur claims too seriously when they examined Twickers's top brass on the road to thye Sports Discrimination Bill (tax evasion via boot money payments).

You cite examples of yourself paying subs and Wannabes paying their own way on trips against league clubs going under as they couldn't afford to 'fund their players'.

The overall tone of your post(s) is very clear, that RU lives by the amateur ideal while league is nowt more than a mercenary jaunt.

"Difference between the two codes at a point in time." Another of your statements. Well, it's not exactly a balanced view, is it, highly partisan.

If you think that the vast majority of domestic RL runs player financing you're delusional.

I maintain the stance that your point is rubbish.

 

[YANTO]

Polynesian Warrior Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:07 am

My two cousins play club rugby in Holland and they said it is a well run and well sponsor and its not as big as soccer but its there

PW which club do your cousins play for? (Genuine interest here,is it RC Castricumse??)
Dutch RU is there but outside the top 2 or 3 clubs the rest are no more than "Pub teams" mate.
The top club has a base of around ten Kiwi players who qualify to play through the resident rule.
Club number 2 has a majority of Dutch players but have struggled to put out a reserve team this year.

You say that there is a strong junior development in Holland..........its a joke mate .....the development class is made up of teams filled with old players playing socially and is not geared up for developing players,the junior divisions are getting smaller each year with clubs having to merge their junior sections in order to put out teams.

I appriciate your concern for all things relating to the game put please check your facts before commenting on a country on the other side of the world.

How do I know ?
Because I coach one of the so called "Ereklasse Clubs" in the biggest city in Holland and its a struggle to put fifteen players on the park every week.

 

[ruggabugga]

Screeny,

When will you learn to respond to what was written and intended. I am not anti league. I am anti the many things that are detracting from the game..such as clubs folding for lack of funds because the ethos of the game is money oriented as opposed to opportunity to play what should be a love first. Get rid of your bias and comprehend what has been written and be pro active rather than negatively reactive. #-o #-o Or do you only like the feel good stories such as ..kangaroos struggle to beat Tomahawks...LEAGUE ON VERGE OF TAKING THE USA BY STORM or any other blue sky crap. Grow the game in the real world. :idea:

 

[Ari Gold]

your not anti-league, ruggabugga?..........ums then explain to me your signature......

 

[ruggabugga]

robyalvoro,

The signature reflects my opinion of what the current game is like to watch. The skills required to contest possession are no longer embraced. One build fits 13 positions. Plus the lack of love of participation above all else. Mate, I prefer Rugby to league but I like them both. I get up Rugger types on Rugby forums if they depart from the basics. The biggest difference I notice is that Rugby people are aware that the gamehas faults and try to overcome them within the traditions and practices of the game. League people seem to think that anything other than a " ALL IS WONDERFUL IN THE GARDEN" attitude is a treason to the game.

Both codes have been around a long time. One has grown well past it's roots and one hasn't. What attitude is working and what isn't.

Don't shoot the messenger. #-o

 

[ruggabugga]

Screeny,

Maybe this will get thru,

Wouldn't it be nice if those two Newcastle club's were in existence rather than folding had the 'desire or love of playing the game outweighed the need to be paid to play the game.' :idea:

 

[ByRd]

remind me how the club competitions in australia are going :lol: i am not talking super 12 becasue that is representing your state. At least rugby league has a terrific club competiton plus state of origin, which rips apart the super 12 NSW/QLD sides (i remember hearing Wendell Sailor saying that the Waratahs/Reds match could match if not better the Origin series :lol: :lol: :lol. Improve the club rigby sides in Autralia than go overseas & expand the game.

 

[taipan]

Taipan,

Why is the fact that RUGBY players including Wallabies paid their way a thing of ridicule to you. Mate, don't you understand that in the amateur era of RUGBY, players were so dedicated and glad of the opportunity , mateship and sheer love of the game that THEY GLADLY paid their own way. I paid an annual fee from juniors right thru to grade, I paid a weekly playing fee right thru juniors and grade. i went on rep trips and paid a substantial portion of the cost...I was delighted to do it as were all the others...It was our sport and our recreation. If you go bowling or absailing or hiking, you pay, just like most RUGBY players do....for the love of it.

In Newcastle, 2004 the REAL NRL lost two side (Maitland & Central Charlestown) because they could not fund their players. What a great pity the players and administrators were so removed from the roots of the game that two clubs were lost to the REAL NRL .. Why could they not find players that loved the game enough to play for love not money.

League has evolved to the point that players at all levels want a free ride. Look at the juniors that require all their costs from uniform to travel to insurance to be met by the RL. Why? No wonder a senior club/s can't function without the dollar as GOD. It is a real shame and a real threat to the growth of League.

i am not ridiculing anyone who pays their way,you interpreted it that way>i am ridiculing it when it is openly stated by someone that Wallabies
all had to pay for their own transport and not be reimbursed at times.That is simply not true.
yes union players are dedicated now and also in the amateur era,just as league players play for the love of the game.There are thousands of bush players in the pro era of rugby league who get stuff all payment for playing the game.mateship in rugby league is just as prevalent as it is in union,its not exclusive mate.I also know as do many others that in the so called amateur era of rugby union that car boot ,under the table monies were paid to some union players in Sydney,in South africa ,in NZ and particularly in France.Sella was poached from league in the amateur days of union,and there were many others.All this while the union herarchy strutted around saying we are purely amateur clean and white as snow. Give me a break.There is one high profile former Wallaby who was chased by St George with big bikkies in the amateur days,and knocked it back eventually.Why.Who would not with a home unit in the eastern suburbs as an incentive. Roy Masters has mentioned it in the SMH on a couple of instances in the past,so its known.
Sorry to disappoint you but the Maitland Pumpkin Pickers are returning to the field next year in the Newcastle competition.The players in the country are dependent on employment in the towns and mines,and when a major industry shuts down or retrenches players move elsewhere for employment.Its a no brainer.
As to league players getting a free ride your comment is a load of nonsense.Just last month 2 junior league teams from the Sutherland Shire the Menai Roosters 17-19and the Gymea Gorillas under 14 raised money themselves to send the teams over to England,Ireland and France to play fixtures(so much for you cant travel in league).I have also played both codes,and i am reasonably aware as to what goes on.
A rugby league club last year in the Victorian competition switched over to union,because it couldnt get the financial or practical experience such as tackling bags from league officialdom.So union provided the free ride ?
Your comment flies in the face of the dedicated 10s of thousands of volunteers in country and city rugby league ,who give up their time and energy and at times personal expense to get junior and senior teams up and running with little or no help from leagues clubs,and this will be more so next year.The NRL/CRL/QRL are more in touch with the club grassroots than union seems to be ,as the emphasis appears to be s12 and bugger the poor club union sides such as the Manlys,Sthn Districts,Penrith,Eastwood etc.If rugby league admin werent so in touch there would hardly have been an Australia wide increase of 10% in junior playiing numbers.

 

[taipan]

robyalvoro,

The signature reflects my opinion of what the current game is like to watch. The skills required to contest possession are no longer embraced. One build fits 13 positions. Plus the lack of love of participation above all else. Mate, I prefer Rugby to league but I like them both. I get up Rugger types on Rugby forums if they depart from the basics. The biggest difference I notice is that Rugby people are aware that the gamehas faults and try to overcome them within the traditions and practices of the game. League people seem to think that anything other than a " ALL IS WONDERFUL IN THE GARDEN" attitude is a treason to the game.

Both codes have been around a long time. One has grown well past it's roots and one hasn't. What attitude is working and what isn't.

Don't shoot the messenger. #-o

The lack of love of participation directed at rugby league is the most ridiculous statement you have made. If a kid doesnt like playing a sport and it doesnt have mateship,he wont play that sport and will switch to another or not play any sport.i gave soccer the flick as a youngster because it bored me s...less.Rugby leagues strong growth in juniors this year knocks your argument into touch.
League fans are the biggest crticis of their administration when it comes to pricing,rule changes,referees, NRL expansion,super league,slow international expansion not just on this board,but on talkback radio,letters to newspapers.I see little or no evidence of criticism of union admin from union fans in these outlets.You obviously ignore the famous carpet under which union criticism is swept.
I always laugh at some union fans comments that league players have a standard size that can fill all positions.The standard pre recorded garbage
that rears its head from time to time.
I look around the NRL fields and I can see Orford just above the long grass,Willie Mason standing amongst the skyscrapers,O'Meally as wide as the Sydney heads,Peachey as thin and nimble as a grasshopper,wingers short such as Howland and tall as Rooney,and players as awkward in shape as Nathan Hindmarsh,and tanks such as Jason Stevens,and brilliant athletes such as Lockyer,Bowen,who could never play props.
Traditions in union,mate that went out the window when the game went openly (now you have to pay tax) professional.The fabric had to change dramatically when the negotiations for the first SANZAR contract was drawn up.Quite simply News Ltd execs stated that the game needs to become a spectacle like rugby league in order to become an inducement for PAY TV viewers.Hence the rule changes.
Scrums meticulously practised and rarley a loose head is won,but plenty of collapses.Releasing a ball in a tackle so much for the importance of possession,then watching sets of flashing feet kicking at times indiscriminately to ruck the ball out,and on occasions watching the ball knocked on by the half back(usually ignored by the ref) as it flies out ,and that is the battle for possession,sorry give me open field where the ball is treated with respect,that just my opinion.
One grown well past its roots I have a fair idea which one you are sprouting about,let me just say that rugby league is played in more countries now in 2004 than at any time of its existence,64% increase in playing numbers in the UK in the last few years,Oz has had another increase this year.Junior clubs are being formed in Scotland and Wales,and growth continues in Ireland. so much for stagnation.
We dont have to shoot the messenger,he has tripped over his pile of comments.

 

[In-goal]

One must appluad the argument being forwarded by Ruga who is trying to state that all for the love of the game is what Onion is about.

Question is this the same love that had put a ban on all things RL for 100 years?

is this the love that played with the Vichy alligned Nazi's?

Are these the same people that told Russell Fairfax he was never to retun to Onion again, just because he was looking after his well being?

Are these the hypocrites that banned Northern English clubs for giving there players brokern time payments because they couldn't afford to be out of the mines?

I haven't seen a reasonable response ever to any of the above questions maybe you can enlighten us.

 

[Dogaholic]

Fact remains, there is only one WORLD GAME, only one which is called "THE BEAUTIFUL GAME", only one FOOTBALL

 

[In-goal]

but there is only one Leeds Rhinos

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

We have the name rugby league now and changing would be an admission of weakness in my opinion. It would take a PR coup the sizeof which I'm not sure RL is capable of pulling off to change names AND convince the public it's because we don't want to be tarnished with the sh*t that is RU.

Personally, too many of league's stalwart warriors over the past 100-years would be betrayed if we gave up on the name now, too. It's difficult but I'm for keeping the name and letting the public choose.

RU's slowly changing into RL as it knows its product is crud by comparison. This is the only long term chance RU has.

Rugby Union is still rugby union and will be a million years more. Rugby League is still rugby league and will be a million years more .


Rugby Union has improved 100% than what it was 50 years ago . You guys can tell me what percentage league has improve since 50 years ago ?
The only thing I could think off is Warriors , London , Brisbane and Melbourne + Origins .

Lets see hmmm Russia,Serbia,Lebanon,New Caledonia,soon to be Georgia
,and the West Indies,an increase to 10 teams in the US,a much improved French national team,the growth of rugby league in Wales in particular,Ireland with 12 teams in conferences,a lesser growth in Scotland in junior levels,a 60% increase in the number of players in UK in the past few years.BTW rugby union 100 years ago in Oz was larger than league,it sure as hell aint now.The NRL competition now 15 teams,(rest assured 16 teams will be announced next year) compared to 8 teams decades ago. Do your sums PW there is plenty of percentage increase both locally and internationally in rugby league,like a true union man you might find these facts a little distrubing.

Taipan ! If you are a rugby union fan or a fan of both codes then you will compare rugby union 50 years ago to this day .
All those league playing countries you mention also have union . The spread of rugby union has surprise those on the IRB board .
The word now is which countries haven't got rugby union ?
The truth is rugby union is now played all over the world it is hard to think of which nations haven't got a comp .
Fifty years ago only the main nations were playing test matches . Now there are test matches beign played in every corner of the world .
The RWC , U21 & U19 world cups , Womens world cup , 7s world cup , and the Commonwelth Games .
Rugby Union is now more healthy than it was fifty years ago . And we are not even talking about club rugby here .

PW I am not arguing that union is not more healthy today than it was 50 years ago, i am replying to your silly comments that rugby league intimating has hardly improved in that period.I responded by giving you the latest info which says it has.end of story.I wouldnt throw club rugby in here , the crowds are deplorable compared to twentyyears ago.
i am aware of union being played in over 100 countries,but the simple fact is like the new countries taking up rugby league,the number of teams and players in the vast majority of those countries is so tiny,that the populations in general hardly if at all knows of its existence.
Despite all the years that have gone by,union is the national code only in NZ and losing to soccer in Wales that mantle,soccer is the main code in Sth Arica,although union has the profile.rugby league is the national code of PNG with a population bigger than NZ.So PW maybe neither code should brag too much.I am still waiting for confirmation of the 6billion tv viewers who were supposed to miraculously materialise in the union world cup of 2004,courtesy of Mr John O'Neill MA institute of HYPE.

Club rugby has always been played in front of small numbers of local supporters .
But it is the provincial and state level that rugby look after really well and this let to rugby union being look after by their national body(ARU/NZRFU/SARFU) .
Rugby league is run by clubs and they decide where players go to tours or use money to blackmail them .

Der Kaiser I know about the German rugby union and Im not saying that they were millionaires but i do know that they have a good club structure with Jrs and they host Canada not long ago .
My two cousins play club rugby in Holland and they said it is a well run and well sponsor and its not as big as soccer but its there .
Now don't try to compare German and Holland rugby union who has local a comp with local players and strong Jrs developments .
How can you compare that to America Samoa league, Samoa league, Italy and Greece rugby league where there's no local comp but they play international league made up of players from Auckland and suburb Sydney .
Your rugby union brain is very limited taipan because rugby union is the national sport of NZ ,South Africa , Wales and most of the Pacific nations .
Whoever told you that Wales is now a soccer country must have the same hate you have of rugby union .
Australia's national sport is cricket and you don't see people flock to watch the Pura Milk cup etc .
That same goes for Wales rugby at the moment and people are still not use to the Celtic league .
Ask any Welshman who their heroes are and they will tell you one of many rugby legends not some soccer players born and live in England .
So Taipan the Wallabies played in front of 8000 fans 50 years ago and players have to pay their own transport and expenses .
Fifty years later and they are now well off and played in front large stadiums with large TV audience .

PW your league hating thoughts seem to cloud what I said - I stated NZ has the national game of union,it was the national game in Wales however soccer is making big inroads(you do or dont have to dislike union to know that),in South Africa as I said union has the bigger profile, the game of the black Sth African(the far greater population) is soccer.The soccer community considers soccer as the national code in terms of sheer playing numbers.
Oh dear did not include Fiji Tonga and Samoa as national codes major catastrophe ,major areas of population and major economic powers .
One of my sporting heroes is Michael Jordan,because of his athleticsm and i am no big fan of basketball.So your argument that I hate a sport because I make some comments you dont like is crap>thats the case i dislike league,because the officials dont think past their little island of Australia,because they have done stuff all in promoting the game in sth Africa,and yes the clubs have a lot of influence.
Then again you are ignorant on union,beacause there are instances particularly in the uK that clubs put themselves before representative games.
Club rugby union crowds for the likes of Randwick used to get on occasions 4-5,000 at a game in the past.their crowds have dwindled dramatically,Warringah and Manly crowds have dropped also.Its funny union club officials are very concerned about club rugby in the current sitiuation,as they were a lot healthier years ago,you seem to know more than club union officials.
The Wallabies played to a packed house at the SCG against the Boks in the early seventies when apartheid was in full swing.a damn side more than 8,000 try close to 40,000.
the Wallabies paid for their own transport and expenses and were not reimbursed for some out of pocket expenses :lol: :lol: :lol: One of the best I have heard,A former Wallaby schoolteacher I know told me reimbursement of petrol money for starters,some expenses were some not.But no pay for play which is fair enough.

So which one is it Taipan ? Is rugby union the national sport of Wales or not ? You seem to change opinion all the time .( It was the national game of Wales however soccer has made inroads .) What sort of answer is that Taipan ? There are more soccer players than rugby players in Australia , NZ and Japan but soccer is not the national sport of those countries . The same can be said about South Africa .
Sorry I've mention about rugby being the national sport of some Pacific Islands coutries like Samoa , Tonga , Fiji , Niue , America Samoa , Cook Islands etc .
I didn't know that having a small population and not a major economic powers in this world exclude you from sport .
Should the rugby league board not bother with the Pacific nations because of its smaller populations and third world economy ?
Thats right Taipan PNG is one of the world major economic powers and major rugby league nations like Australia & England now wants to tour PNG instead of NZ because it has a larger populations :lol: .
PNG is now one of the worst country in the world to travel and it is predicted that half of the PNG population of PNG will be infected by HIV/AIDS in ten years time if help doesn't arrive soon .

What is club rugby to you Taipan ? I see QLD cup teams as clubs and they use to get on occasion 4-5000 at a game in the past .
Their crowds have dwindled dramatically.
It is a fact that comps like NRL , NPC , S 12 , AFL etc can have a dramatic effect on the local club comp .
Just ask the the local Western Australia AFL comp and the Auckland rugby league comp .
Their clubs have struggle since the franchises Eagles , Dockers and NZ Warriors join national comps .
I see the Brisbane Broncos as the same level as the Queensland Reds or the NZ Warriors as the same level as Auckland NPC/Blues .
In NZ some of yous call Bartercard cup clubs like North Harbour , Wellington and Canterbury club teams .
But then call rugby union teams North Harbour , Wellington and Canterbury provincial teams .
Whats up with that ? Does that mean that there is national team (NZ Warriors) playing in a club comp in Australia ?

The Wallabies played their world cup semifinals against France in 1987 in a little subrban stadium at Concord Oval .
I think the stadium holds 20,000 but they couldn't even fill it to capacity that day .
But more than 10 years later they are playing in stadiums & crowds five times bigger .

 

[Moffo]

really, when in 2004 did a rugby international have 100,000 attend?

or 2003

or 2002

or 2001

eh, eh???

 

[carlnz]

get over yourslef Polynesian Warrior, since when was Rugby Cook Islands national sport? And you think Rugby is Tonga's national sport..think again...League has caught right up to it and now Soccer is paying the big bucks in TONGA!

End of the day your a fool

 

[Thomas]

Don't be so pedantic. Geez... #-o

Try crowds of 80,000 then. The Wallabies have played in front of a few crowds this size since 1987.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

get over yourslef Polynesian Warrior, since when was Rugby Cook Islands national sport? And you think Rugby is Tonga's national sport..think again...League has caught right up to it and now Soccer is paying the big bucks in TONGA!

End of the day your a fool

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Best Dream post of the year award goes to carlnz ------------------------ And you think Rugby is Tonga's national sport..think again...League has caught right up to it and now Soccer is paying the big bucks in TONGA!

[-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< [-o< Can you honestly think you can fool everyone here with that sort of post carlnz ? Soon you will be saying that soccer is the national sport of Fiji and Samoa .

Thats right carlnz I heard that Sione Lauaki and his NZ Warriors brother Epalahame have sign a 2 million dollars contract to play for Haapai Manchester United soccer team base in remote villiage in the Haapai region .
And the Sione Beckham led national team beat the Olyroos and the All White to qualify into the next world cup in Germany ..

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

really, when in 2004 did a rugby international have 100,000 attend?

or 2003

or 2002

or 2001

eh, eh???

If I can remember right Moffo Telstra Stadium or Stadium Australia had a capacity of more than 100,000 before it was reduce to just over 80,000 and the Bledisloe games were all sold out in Sydney .

eh , eh

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

really, when in 2004 did a rugby international have 100,000 attend?

or 2003

or 2002

or 2001

eh, eh???

If I can remember right Moffo Telstra Stadium or Stadium Australia had a capacity of more than 100,000 before it was reduce to just over 80,000 and the Bledisloe games were all sold out in Sydney .

eh , eh

And since you think Im lying then Im happy to say this to you my friend .
If NZ , South Africa , Sydney , Brisbane , Cardiff , London and Paris had stadiums over 100,000 capacity . I bet you wouldn't be asking me this question again because rugby doesn't have a problem getting fans to fill this big stadiums to their major internationals .

 

[In-goal]

still no one has answered my questions about there beloved Union.