The TV rights thread part II

[docbrown]

I suppose we also have new items such as Monday night football, Toyota Cup and the All Stars game, none of which existed the last time the rights were up for grabs. How does that change things? Or would all these items be considered a free for all?

They all need to be listed and valued.

I mean I don't know if you recall 10 listing the "value" of each individual game and I also mentioned that other parties were doing the same.

This is why.

 

[docbrown]

Oh and another thing, obviously you guys realise that Packer's holdings in 9 through CMH are less than 1% now and his Ten shares are roughly around 9%.

Back during the transition period in between when the AFL was being sorted 9 were expecting Fox to back them up on the simulcast arrangement and make up the shortfall so they match 7's numbers and then on sell 2 games onto 7 and make a profit.

Apparently Fox pretty much told told them to... well... you know.

I have it on good authority that the tradition 9-Fox alliance is dead and 9 have no hope of cosying up during the NRL deal.

 

[Goddo]

As I said on another thread, this 3 month period is the time that the NRL needs to be putting pressure on 9. 9 have the weaker stand point. When a Melbourne game is blacked out it needs to be slapped back in their face. Whenever coverage is of a poor quality it needs to be thrown back at them.

Forcing Nine to concede points now like better coverage standards means they won't expect to reduce their bid (see what happens if they try). In turns this means the other networks are likewise obliged to provide a level of service that the NRL demands - also for no fee reduction - because Nine have already agreed to do it and to compete at tender they need to match it.

I still haven't confirmed one Foxtel thing but I can confirm one thing - problem the subject that been scrutinised the most on here - and that's the first and last rights that Channel 9 have.

Apparently Premier Group are "supremely confident" that they have a legal standpoint based on the original contract wording to conject that 9's first bid is required to breakdown the individual components that make up the summary i.e. 9 can't just say $500,000,000 for the lot - they are required to specifically break down which money is for which component and for what degree of coverage upon request from the NRL - which the NRL have requested both 9 & Fox Sports already do.

What this means for example is that Friday Night Football Double Header will have a specific valuation attached to it. If 10 were to come in and bid 20% more for that specific component then 9 no long control the "last rights" for the component.

I'm waiting for another confirmation on this but the words that were specifically used were "supremely confident".

This is the game changer.

Very good news. I guess that explains all the hype around the networks fighting for Origin.

 

[Goddo]

Oh and another thing, obviously you guys realise that Packer's holdings in 9 through CMH are less than 1% now and his Ten shares are roughly around 9%.

Back during the transition period in between when the AFL was being sorted 9 were expecting Fox to back them up on the simulcast arrangement and make up the shortfall so they match 7's numbers and then on sell 2 games onto 7 and make a profit.

Apparently Fox pretty much told told them to... well... you know.

I have it on good authority that the tradition 9-Fox alliance is dead and 9 have no hope of cosying up during the NRL deal.

It sounds like what we have all hoped for - 7 will get origin, 10 will get most of the NRL, and Fox Sports will get all games simulcast, price tag for media probably around $1-1.2B depending on how much we compromise the game with advertising.

 

[chigurh]

Thanks for the updates, Doc.

At the moment it seems every bit of news is positive for the NRL and negative for CH9. Not sure which I am enjoying more.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Thanks for the updates, Doc.

At the moment it seems every bit of news is positive for the NRL and negative for CH9. Not sure which I am enjoying more.

Both have got me Barred up.

 

[docbrown]

Very good news. I guess that explains all the hype around the networks fighting for Origin.

Yeah though I'm still trying to figure out when it was told to the networks.

It sounds like what we have all hoped for - 7 will get origin, 10 will get most of the NRL, and Fox Sports will get all games simulcast, price tag for media probably around $1-1.2B depending on how much we compromise the game with advertising.

Well it's still got to get washed out but honestly the last time we had fight for the rights like this it was Murdoch vs Packer vs ARL and nobody came out clean.

This time it's honestly shaping up as the NRL & Murdoch & Packer & Kerry Stokes vs 9

As just one person out of many having had the backhand of 9 I say -

 

[TheRam]

Well one thing I can mention now whilst it's in my head is that it was never Foxsport's original intention to have an AFL Channel, that it was merely a fake bargaining tool that they employed against the AFL to get what they wanted and I have it on pretty good authority that once the current contract ends it will be scrapped entirely. :lol:

All the suckers that sign up are going to be crying in 5 years. :lol:

With all due respect doc, this hardly seems like a compromised outcome or fake benefit for the AFL to me. I mean they got a record money deal, their own dedicated Footy channel and all games simulcast live.

Sure in five years they may lose it, but for FIVE WHOLE YEARS they have their own channel and by then they will probably be producing their own coverage as they plan which will change everything again.

Well if we get duped like that I for one will be popping the champers and swinging of the chandelier in delirious delight.

 

[docbrown]

With all due respect doc, this hardly seems like a compromised outcome or fake benefit for the AFL to me. I mean they got a record money deal, their own dedicated Footy channel and all games simulcast live.

Sure in five years they may lose it, but for FIVE WHOLE YEARS they have their own channel and by then they will probably be producing their own coverage as they plan which will change everything again.

Well if we get duped like that I for one will be popping the champers and swinging of the chandelier in delirious delight.

You're viewing this from an AFL vs NRL perspective, that's not's what I'm talking about. View this from an AFL vs Fox perspective as an example of one company creating something out of nothing to get another company to put pressure another company.

Here's how it plays out -

The AFL want as many dollars for its rights as possible - obviously.
Foxtel wants simulcasting, got those big plans blah blah blah.
Channel 7 announces it wants nothing to do with simulcasting, they even say they'll pay less if forced but at one point in discussions they actually said it's us or them.
The AFL starts kowtowing to 7.
Foxtel knows the swing has shifted to 7's favour.
How do they get what they want (all 8 games)
They tell the AFL they will give them their own channel and place in the spotlight.
The AFL eyes widen. Wow. Glitz and glamour but what does it really mean for Fox?
Nothing! All they wanted was the 8 games. They were already dedicated to setting up all that extra additional programming. They were already going to spread it over 2 channels. You know how much giving the AFL their own channel costs them? Nothing! The other content just gets repeated across the other Foxsports.
But the AFL see "AFL Channel" and they go wow - and they go back to 7 and say "But Foxtel are giving us our own channel" blah blah blah and start pressuring 7 on Fox's behalf!

Net cost to Foxtel - NOTHING!
Net gain - EVERYTHING THEY WANTED TO BEGIN WITH!

And like I said all they care about is getting the subscribers. Fox are selling it exactly the same as they were going to do originally - all 8 games. Once the AFL fans are suckered by the lure of the "AFL Channel" "oh wow I get all this stuff", you know what's going to happen? It's going to get shut down and merged back with the rest of Fox Sports channels and in five years time all the AFL fans will whinge because they don't have their private little club but they won't unsubscribe because they'd still get all the exact same content!

Attention AFL fans - you're idiots!

 

[Perth Red]

TBF though it is a win win, AFL didn't lose anything and gained a Fox channel of their own plus god knows how much Fox focus and advertising in the process. If they close it down in 5 years AFL are no worse off than now except they have had 5 years fo having a channel dedicated to their sport and all the positive sponsorship opportunities etc that come with it.

Be honest, who on here wouldn't be extremely happy if NRL got a Fox dedicatd channel, even if it was for 5 years only?

 

[docbrown]

I don't know where you guys are getting that I'm saying that it's not a good thing for AFL fans. They get 9 ad free games. Even if there was no AFL channel you know what they'd have gotten? 9 ad free games. You know what they'll get after the AFL channel is scrapped? 9 ad free games.

You know what the only benefit of having an AFL Channel is?

Not having to press one single button on your remote as much.

Here's all Foxtel has to do - a Fox Sports channel suddenly becomes the NRL Channel - they buy back Super League, NYC, the rep games, finals and some other properties, do they panel revamp and cross network shows with 10, sure outside of those hey run some other sports in mornings etc but hey it's an NRL channel. Let's all drink the kool aid.

 

[Dogs Of War]

And like I said all they care about is getting the subscribers. Fox are selling it exactly the same as they were going to do originally - all 8 games. Once the AFL fans are suckered by the lure of the "AFL Channel" "oh wow I get all this stuff", you know what's going to happen? It's going to get shut down and merged back with the rest of Fox Sports channels and in five years time all the AFL fans will whinge because they don't have their private little club but they won't unsubscribe because they'd still get all the exact same content!

Attention AFL fans - you're idiots!

Given how much the AFL models NFL in what they do, I suspect at the end of the 5 years, they will be going towards hosting there own AFL channel similar to the NFL network. So it may not be as silly as it seems. Whether AFL fans would be willing to pay extra for that content is another story, they weren't last time.

 

[Ronnie Dobbs]

The majority of personalities involved in AFL coverage on Ten are deplorable but you've hit the nail on the head. Quartermain is the worst with Brad Mcewan not far behind.....

How about that ferrets head? He's a little bloke, with a tiny face, but his head must be two feet long from his gay forehead to the back.

Hilarious. He's almost as gay as Bruce McAvaney. He's doing his best to take the mantle.

 

[TheRam]

You're viewing this from an AFL vs NRL perspective, that's not's what I'm talking about. View this from an AFL vs Fox perspective as an example of one company creating something out of nothing to get another company to put pressure another company.

Here's how it plays out -

The AFL want as many dollars for its rights as possible - obviously.
Foxtel wants simulcasting, got those big plans blah blah blah.
Channel 7 announces it wants nothing to do with simulcasting, they even say they'll pay less if forced but at one point in discussions they actually said it's us or them.
The AFL starts kowtowing to 7.
Foxtel knows the swing has shifted to 7's favour.
How do they get what they want (all 8 games)
They tell the AFL they will give them their own channel and place in the spotlight.
The AFL eyes widen. Wow. Glitz and glamour but what does it really mean for Fox?
Nothing! All they wanted was the 8 games. They were already dedicated to setting up all that extra additional programming. They were already going to spread it over 2 channels. You know how much giving the AFL their own channel costs them? Nothing! The other content just gets repeated across the other Foxsports.
But the AFL see "AFL Channel" and they go wow - and they go back to 7 and say "But Foxtel are giving us our own channel" blah blah blah and start pressuring 7 on Fox's behalf!

Net cost to Foxtel - NOTHING!
Net gain - EVERYTHING THEY WANTED TO BEGIN WITH!

And like I said all they care about is getting the subscribers. Fox are selling it exactly the same as they were going to do originally - all 8 games. Once the AFL fans are suckered by the lure of the "AFL Channel" "oh wow I get all this stuff", you know what's going to happen? It's going to get shut down and merged back with the rest of Fox Sports channels and in five years time all the AFL fans will whinge because they don't have their private little club but they won't unsubscribe because they'd still get all the exact same content!

Attention AFL fans - you're idiots!

First up, thank you for your detailed reply much appreciated.

Now that said, I still don't see how anyone in the deal has come out of it without getting what they wanted and that includes the AFL fan who is far from being silly for signing up to a five year fumbleball orgy-fest 24 hrs a day by the click of one button.

Also after your explanation I still don't quite get it, I mean in the end I get that it was Fox's intervention that paved the way for the final outcome, but Seven stumped up a record price and has to show all games, and Fox also have stumped up a record price and has to show all games and on top of that had to make it even more convenient and enjoyable for the AFL fan and put it all in one place for them...so who exactly got played by who here and who got the better end of the pineapple?

For mine AFL & it's misguided delusional fans score 10 out 10.

Seven & Fox Sports score 8 out of 10.

 

[Lego_Man]

ah right, i thought you were having a dash at me... what we have here is failure to communicate.

Some men you just cant reach.

 

[Quidgybo]

READY to televise some matches on One (HD) and Eleven (youth channel) if the station secures all eight games each round.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/nrl/tv-fight-for-origin/story-e6frexnr-1226279961684

The devil of course is in the detail. How many live, how many delayed, and how long will they be delayed?

If everything goes live to Fox and then Ten choose to delay all games to allow insertion of advertising it might not look so good. If most matches are delayed to late night after being live on Fox like earlier Super 12 and NBL seasons it also might not look so good.

Leigh.

 

[bobmar28]

Oh and another thing, obviously you guys realise that Packer's holdings in 9 through CMH are less than 1% now and his Ten shares are roughly around 9%.

Back during the transition period in between when the AFL was being sorted 9 were expecting Fox to back them up on the simulcast arrangement and make up the shortfall so they match 7's numbers and then on sell 2 games onto 7 and make a profit.

Apparently Fox pretty much told told them to... well... you know.

I have it on good authority that the tradition 9-Fox alliance is dead and 9 have no hope of cosying up during the NRL deal.

That's all great news. Wouldn't it be great to have all games on Ten/One simulcast with Fox?

 

[Tap Twist Snap]

I'm not sure a dedicated channel is the way to go unless they actually replace one of the current fox 1-3 channels with the League Channel. Have not seen one game of afl on tv at the local pub since the fox footy channel started. Exposure has gone to 0.

 

[bobmar28]

The best thing about this deal between AFL and Fox is that NRL is back on Fox Sports #1.

 

[CC_Roosters]

I'm not sure a dedicated channel is the way to go unless they actually replace one of the current fox 1-3 channels with the League Channel. Have not seen one game of afl on tv at the local pub since the fox footy channel started. Exposure has gone to 0.

Very true. Haven't seen it in any pub/club so far. I bet its the default in most Victoritan/WA/SA establishments though.