The world's gayest nation

[Moffo]

I have an open mind, and i don't have a problem with homosexuals. People can live life as they wish, that has always been my belief.

But, i think its a lifestyle choice

I regret all the abuse that gay people take. They don't deserve it.

In my opinion, homosexuality is not 'natural'. I just have to look at the reproductive systems to say that. Guys and girls are welll....created differently if i can put it that way

Look at it this way, i agree that not everyone is born the same. But come on, most guys who are gay are quite 'feminine'. You don't disagree do you? But there are also many straight people that are quite feminine. What makes some of them gay and others not? People can still be feminine without being 'queens' as you put it

Thats why i say its a lifestyle choice. Its not one that i have a problem with.

How can you explain to me that people are born gay? That is one thing i would like answered. And tell me how some people can be feminine yet still be straight

Im more open minded then most salivor, i can assure you of that

But the simple fact is that i believe that is a choice to live the 'homosexual lifestyle'

Cheers,
Moffo

I'm very pleased that in your 20 or so years of life that you've worked out that male and female reproductive systems are different. Its a start at least ;-) .

What has being feminine really got to do with being gay moffo? Your basically using the same warped theory as goangod that because feminine males are over represented in the gay community there must be a strong link there. Being feminine is not a pre-reqouisite for being homosexual and being masculine is not a pre-requoisite for being heterosexual. If you can't see the stupidity in this side of your arguement then thats fine, ignorance is bliss.

I hate to tell you that I can't explain to you how people are born gay. I also can't explain to you how to cure cancer or aids. I can't even explain to you how the world was created because we have no real proof. Yet your quite happy to believe that god is real and geniune aren't you moffo? Yet even you've said yourself in past debates we don't know for sure. Lets face it moffo your opinion on this subject has been formed by your christianity just like goangods. Now run along my little sheep.

A lot of gays are quite feminine. Undeniable mate. Its a characteristic that we use to define a group of people. And in the majority of cases (ie: over 50%), id say thats right.

You can't tell me how people are born gay. Its like saying that you can't tell me how the world begun. I said i believe in God, how can i prove beyond doubt that he is real? I can't. Once again, its just my opinion that people aren't born gay. I can't prove that. But i can point to evidence that in my view supports what i say

What has religion got to do with it btw? I don't believe everything that is said in the bible, i make my own mind up on things. Matter of interpretation IMO, so my comments on gays have nothing to do with it

My point is that MANY people in society exhibit gay characteristics without being gay.

Why can you cancel out the suggestion that a lot of people who 'turn' gay do it for experience? Tell you what, im sure that a lot more people then you think have sampled the gay life, and either stayed that way or turned back. If you turn gay for experience, then IMO, its a lifestyle choice and not the fact that you are born that way

Miller - U really think that (about people turning gay because things don't work out with a chick?). Come on, there are many reasons why relationships go wrong, can't put it all down to the fact that a guy wanted another guy at the time

IMO its a state of mind

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[eloquentEEL]

hey, i want into this debate as well.

goangod, can you please refute my first post in this thread (page 4 - you may have missed it the first time) or are you in agreeance with what i posted?

 

[eloquentEEL]

Moffo,

I agree with you that not all homosexuals are born "gay" (although I do believe that you have to at least be born bisexual to "turn" gay). However, do you deny that it is possible that some homosexuals are born gay?

 

[Moffo]

Moffo,

I agree with you that not all homosexuals are born "gay" (although I do believe that you have to at least be born bisexual to "turn" gay). However, do you deny that it is possible that some homosexuals are born gay?

Mate/matess, i see no proof. Unless proof can be shown to me then i will stick to my opinion (ie: that people aren't born gay)

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[salivor]

Moffo - You’re arguing along the same lines as goangod and his paedophilia link. Your argument is even worse though because you’re backing it up with blatant stereotypes. I can only guess the next progression is for you to tell me that all lesbians are butch. As I've said being feminine has got nothing to do with being homosexual and being butch has got nothing to do with being a lesbian. The other stereotype is that most gay men dress up in leather and have moustaches but leather and bondage is also big amongst the heterosexual community so it doesn't suit your argument to use that stereotype does it?

Can you answer these questions for me honestly?

Why would a homosexual person go through the abuse and discrimination to lead a lifestyle of unhappiness and social outcast when according to you we are all born attracted to women?

Why do many homosexuals wish they weren't the way they were, surely if its so simple they could just fit easily back into the heterosexual lifestyle but its not that easy is it? Did you ever think just for a moment that these people can't fit back in because we have no control over which sex we are sexually attracted to?

Why do many spend years in marriages and relationships pretending to be someone their not because their ashamed of their feelings towards men?

How can you possibly refute that the examples I've given you aren't people that certainly don't see this as some fun alternative lifestyle, rather they see it as a burden and wish they were heterosexual like the majority of society?

Sorry but your view is based entirely on stereotypes which is a pretty shaky patch of ground to stand on. Since you’re a white male moffo, I assume you can't dance due to no natural rhythm and can't sing. How is it that many white people manage to dance and sing to quite high standards? At least goangod has some facts to prove his link, you've got nothing by stereotypes which will never prove anything.

What has religion got to do with it? A great deal. Being a Christian do you not take a great deal of your morals from the teachings of your faith? If you do, you'd know that Christianity views homosexuality as morally wrong. Is it purely a coincidence that the three openly homophobic people in this thread are all Christians? Is it purely coincidence that most anti-homosexual protesters are Christians? I think you can connect the dots.

 

[wittyfan]

Look what you've done now lefties.

Once you let in homosexuality all the other evils get shoved in our faces too. :evil:

:shock: I'm a right-wing nice person so your comments confuse me. :lol:

 

[brook]

Goangod,

the difference with your examples is that they are clearly NOT a part of normal human behaviour, if for thousands of years humans had been rolling in their own faeces I doubt any of us would question it as normal human behaviour - but we don't and haven't

however throughout history, in every society and culture known a certain percentage of humans have engaged in homosexuality - if you add to that the fact that it tends to be common across all species (and interestingly a rather constant percentage) one would have to assume that whatever you think of homosexuality 'unnatural' is not a complaint that will hold water

its very natural - you can still say you think its immoral, I'll never agree with that view but I can respect it, but I don't think the 'natural law' cry holds all that much water

 

[JoeD]

OK I am going to approach this from a completely different angle. One word defines my view on this. CHOICE. It is all about choice. All this talk about if you are born gay or not is IMO irrelevant. The reason someone is gay makes no difference to the fact that they are gay. Now the only contentious issue for me is the age of consent. In other words how old is old enough to make the choice. This is the same for gays as it is for straight people. At the moment I think the age is 16. Personally I think this is too young but that is not what is being argued right now. Once you reach the age of consent you should be able to choose to have consenting sex with whoever you like. You should be able to choice to do whatever you like - as long as it is not harming others. I think you should be able to choose to marry as many people as you like - as long as nobody is coerced. In fact isn't polygamy practiced by some christians in the US?

In NZ and Australia lots of our laws are based on christian morals - it was not long ago that you couldn't buy alcohol on sundays in NZ. Lots of us in this forum have agreed in the past that religion and politics don't mix so why not in this case?

Goangod I also take issue with your 'universal' customs. There are plenty of cultures where incest is the norm, homosexuality is the norm, cross dressing is the norm. Why would I want to stop people doing these things if they are not hurting anybody else? You also talk about how homosexuality is 'promoted'. Do you think people are switching sides because of this promotion?

Also I'd like to hear your theory on, if people are not born gay then how do they become gay?

 

[Moffo]

Moffo - You’re arguing along the same lines as goangod and his paedophilia link. Your argument is even worse though because you’re backing it up with blatant stereotypes. I can only guess the next progression is for you to tell me that all lesbians are butch. As I've said being feminine has got nothing to do with being homosexual and being butch has got nothing to do with being a lesbian. The other stereotype is that most gay men dress up in leather and have moustaches but leather and bondage is also big amongst the heterosexual community so it doesn't suit your argument to use that stereotype does it?

Can you answer these questions for me honestly?

Why would a homosexual person go through the abuse and discrimination to lead a lifestyle of unhappiness and social outcast when according to you we are all born attracted to women?

Why do many homosexuals wish they weren't the way they were, surely if its so simple they could just fit easily back into the heterosexual lifestyle but its not that easy is it? Did you ever think just for a moment that these people can't fit back in because we have no control over which sex we are sexually attracted to?

Why do many spend years in marriages and relationships pretending to be someone their not because their ashamed of their feelings towards men?

How can you possibly refute that the examples I've given you aren't people that certainly don't see this as some fun alternative lifestyle, rather they see it as a burden and wish they were heterosexual like the majority of society?

Sorry but your view is based entirely on stereotypes which is a pretty shaky patch of ground to stand on. Since you’re a white male moffo, I assume you can't dance due to no natural rhythm and can't sing. How is it that many white people manage to dance and sing to quite high standards? At least goangod has some facts to prove his link, you've got nothing by stereotypes which will never prove anything.

What has religion got to do with it? A great deal. Being a Christian do you not take a great deal of your morals from the teachings of your faith? If you do, you'd know that Christianity views homosexuality as morally wrong. Is it purely a coincidence that the three openly homophobic people in this thread are all Christians? Is it purely coincidence that most anti-homosexual protesters are Christians? I think you can connect the dots.

Firstly, to JoeD, i think people become gay for a number of reasons. One is to experience the lifestyle, another is to experience the physical aspects of it. Further, i think many people just end up that way through a number of experiences throughout life that lead them down that path. Perhaps a bad relationship with a woman, a friendly mate that turns into something more etc etc




Salivor, id expect that you would at least read what i write. I didn't say that all gays were queens. If you read what i said before then you would understand that. I merely said that the majority of gays are feminine, in one way or another. So far you have not disproved that theory

Why are you putting words in my mouth?

Its not a stereotype. Its a characteristic that is used (in general terms, not absolute) to define a group of people. The gay population is, in general, bound by a characteristic - ie: being feminine. Sorry, but IMO they are the facts, take them or leave them. And don't mix the issue up with paedophilia, as im not talking about that issue. Guys who go looking for 12yr old boys for a thrill are perverted sickos, i wouldn't class them as gay, id much prefer to class them as filth. But lets not go down this path

"Why would a homosexual person go through the abuse and discrimination to lead a lifestyle of unhappiness and social outcast when according to you we are all born attracted to women?"

Most people do not 'turn' until they are at least 16. Or at least, exhibit to the wider community that they are gay. Why are gays unhappy? the gays i know are extremely happy and upbeat people. I don't know what gays you know. Your question is flawed. Social outcast? Far from it, a gay in Sydney will be accepted into a huge community. Look at the Mardi Gras next year. Dunno what its like in NZ, but its actually quite acceptable to most people in Sydney these days to be gay

"Why do many homosexuals wish they weren't the way they were, surely if its so simple they could just fit easily back into the heterosexual lifestyle but its not that easy is it? Did you ever think just for a moment that these people can't fit back in because we have no control over which sex we are sexually attracted to?"

How do you know they want to go back to being straight? They may try the experience with guys and find out that they like it better. Who says the hetrosexual lifestyle is easy? I don't doubt that guys can't be attracted to other guys, i just think that its their choice in the first place

"Why do many spend years in marriages and relationships pretending to be someone their not because their ashamed of their feelings towards men?"

They care for their image and families. Don't blame them, i think most people are image-conscious and care for their families. I don't know if its as much of an 'ashamed' issue as the image and family considerations

"How can you possibly refute that the examples I've given you aren't people that certainly don't see this as some fun alternative lifestyle, rather they see it as a burden and wish they were heterosexual like the majority of society?"

I dont see any proof that a significant number of gays wish they were straight. How do you know this? A lot of gays enjoy being gay. Its not all doom and gloom as you have suggested in this thread


And mate, i take offence to you calling me homophobic or anti-homosexual, as i am not. Once again, you haven't read closely enough what i have said. Where did i say that i hate gays or fear them? Absolutely nowhere, i know and work with gay people. End of section, don't try and read things into something thats simply not there. Poor effort mate, i think you really let yourself down by suggesting that im homophobic

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[salivor]

Moffo it’s a stereotype whether you like it or not. We have no accurate figures on gay people. Can you walk down a street and pick out who is straight and who is gay. For all we know half the population are homosexuals. We can only take statistics from openly homosexuals and therefore they are flawed. You are only going off a stereotype that we are force fed but be my guest to keep on those rose coloured glasses.

This is exactly like goangod and his paedophilia link whether you like it or not. He’s arguing that since homosexuals are over-represented in paedophile statistics there must be a link there. You’re both using the same logic so you can't on one hand say there’s a link between feminine males and homosexuals but throw the logic out the window for paedophiles and homosexuals.

'Turn', I really like that phrase moffo. Poor choice of wording by yourself. Most people don't turn gay at 16, most people let those around them know that they are gay at that age. The problem here is that your trying to make out as if homosexuality is different to heterosexuality. We can just as easily say that people turn heterosexual at 16 so it too is an acquired lifestyle.

There is persecution of gays in society whether you like it or not. I'm sure its not that long ago since you were in college. You know what immature boys are like. If your not blatantly homophobic you must therefore be a homosexual. They use such great logic. I think it takes a hell of a lot of balls for any gay person to come out in their teens in a school environment. It’s much easier to do it a little later in life.

So moffo by your logic. If guys can chose to be attracted to guys then they can also chose to be attracted to girls. So is heterosexuality an acquired lifestyle moffo? Or is it only homosexuality that is an acquired lifestyle? I'd really like to hear yours or goangods view on this as the other side of the fence seems to be avoiding touching this issue.

So now moffo are you saying that some gay men don't have girlfriends and wives to try and hide their homosexuality? A great case here is Ian Roberts. He had a lot of fake girlfriends to try and hide his sexuality from his team mates and family but in the end he was gay and couldn't change the way he was, it had nothing to do with choice.

I have no doubt many enjoy being gay and the gay community is a very supportive one. But surely you can't deny the stigma attached to being gay? We only have to look at this thread with goangod being a perfect example of branding homosexuals as paedophiles.

So you’re not a homophobe moffo? You just share some of their arguments and logic but not a homophobe and you have faith in a religion that says homosexuality is immoral. But not a homophobe? Ok.

 

[Moffo]

Moffo it’s a stereotype whether you like it or not. We have no accurate figures on gay people. Can you walk down a street and pick out who is straight and who is gay. For all we know half the population are homosexuals. We can only take statistics from openly homosexuals and therefore they are flawed. You are only going off a stereotype that we are force fed but be my guest to keep on those rose coloured glasses.

This is exactly like goangod and his paedophilia link whether you like it or not. He’s arguing that since homosexuals are over-represented in paedophile statistics there must be a link there. You’re both using the same logic so you can't on one hand say there’s a link between feminine males and homosexuals but throw the logic out the window for paedophiles and homosexuals.

'Turn', I really like that phrase moffo. Poor choice of wording by yourself. Most people don't turn gay at 16, most people let those around them know that they are gay at that age. The problem here is that your trying to make out as if homosexuality is different to heterosexuality. We can just as easily say that people turn heterosexual at 16 so it too is an acquired lifestyle.

There is persecution of gays in society whether you like it or not. I'm sure its not that long ago since you were in college. You know what immature boys are like. If your not blatantly homophobic you must therefore be a homosexual. They use such great logic. I think it takes a hell of a lot of balls for any gay person to come out in their teens in a school environment. It’s much easier to do it a little later in life.

So moffo by your logic. If guys can chose to be attracted to guys then they can also chose to be attracted to girls. So is heterosexuality an acquired lifestyle moffo? Or is it only homosexuality that is an acquired lifestyle? I'd really like to hear yours or goangods view on this as the other side of the fence seems to be avoiding touching this issue.

So now moffo are you saying that some gay men don't have girlfriends and wives to try and hide their homosexuality? A great case here is Ian Roberts. He had a lot of fake girlfriends to try and hide his sexuality from his team mates and family but in the end he was gay and couldn't change the way he was, it had nothing to do with choice.

I have no doubt many enjoy being gay and the gay community is a very supportive one. But surely you can't deny the stigma attached to being gay? We only have to look at this thread with goangod being a perfect example of branding homosexuals as paedophiles.

So you’re not a homophobe moffo? You just share some of their arguments and logic but not a homophobe and you have faith in a religion that says homosexuality is immoral. But not a homophobe? Ok.

I qualified my 'turn' statement in the next paragraph by saying that 16 would be about the age that people start exhibiting to the community that they are gay. Put it this way, you don't see many 12yr olds who will come out in public and declare they are gay, would u?

Being 'hetrosexual' is what we are born with. Its why boys are born with different things to girls mate ;-) Its not natural to desire something that we already have on our own :lol: body


Ill be back in a tic to finish this

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Anonymous]

...i think people become gay for a number of reasons. One is to experience the lifestyle, another is to experience the physical aspects of it. Further, i think many people just end up that way through a number of experiences throughout life that lead them down that path. Perhaps a bad relationship with a woman, a friendly mate that turns into something more etc etc

:lol: LOL... thats the funniest thing I've read all week. Thanks Moffo. Is it OK if I print that out and send it to a few mates?

 

[Moffo]

...i think people become gay for a number of reasons. One is to experience the lifestyle, another is to experience the physical aspects of it. Further, i think many people just end up that way through a number of experiences throughout life that lead them down that path. Perhaps a bad relationship with a woman, a friendly mate that turns into something more etc etc

:lol: LOL... thats the funniest thing I've read all week. Thanks Moffo. Is it OK if I print that out and send it to a few mates?

If u wish :?

 

[salivor]

I qualified my 'turn' statement in the next paragraph by saying that 16 would be about the age that people start exhibiting to the community that they are gay. Put it this way, you don't see many 12yr olds who will come out in public and declare they are gay, would u?

Being 'hetrosexual' is what we are born with. Its why boys are born with different things to girls mate Its not natural to desire something that we already have on our own body

Yet you think there’s no persecution attached to being a homosexual. Ever wonder why 12 year olds might not come out and declare they are homosexual? Didn't put much thought into that one did you?

You next paragraph is a laugh, and you say your not homophobic, hmm might want to be a bit more careful with what you say then. Having bits that fit with the opposite sex is totally different to sexuality. We are talking about sexual attraction, sexual desire which comes on around puberty. I don't think around puberty we have any control over which sex we are sexually attracted to. It’s not a choice but if it is then both heterosexuality and homosexuality are acquired lifestyles. If you can chose which sex your sexually attracted to then there’s no difference between how people become homosexuals, heterosexuals, bisexuals or anything else.

 

[Moffo]

Moffo it’s a stereotype whether you like it or not. We have no accurate figures on gay people. Can you walk down a street and pick out who is straight and who is gay. For all we know half the population are homosexuals. We can only take statistics from openly homosexuals and therefore they are flawed. You are only going off a stereotype that we are force fed but be my guest to keep on those rose coloured glasses.

This is exactly like goangod and his paedophilia link whether you like it or not. He’s arguing that since homosexuals are over-represented in paedophile statistics there must be a link there. You’re both using the same logic so you can't on one hand say there’s a link between feminine males and homosexuals but throw the logic out the window for paedophiles and homosexuals.

'Turn', I really like that phrase moffo. Poor choice of wording by yourself. Most people don't turn gay at 16, most people let those around them know that they are gay at that age. The problem here is that your trying to make out as if homosexuality is different to heterosexuality. We can just as easily say that people turn heterosexual at 16 so it too is an acquired lifestyle.

There is persecution of gays in society whether you like it or not. I'm sure its not that long ago since you were in college. You know what immature boys are like. If your not blatantly homophobic you must therefore be a homosexual. They use such great logic. I think it takes a hell of a lot of balls for any gay person to come out in their teens in a school environment. It’s much easier to do it a little later in life.

So moffo by your logic. If guys can chose to be attracted to guys then they can also chose to be attracted to girls. So is heterosexuality an acquired lifestyle moffo? Or is it only homosexuality that is an acquired lifestyle? I'd really like to hear yours or goangods view on this as the other side of the fence seems to be avoiding touching this issue.

So now moffo are you saying that some gay men don't have girlfriends and wives to try and hide their homosexuality? A great case here is Ian Roberts. He had a lot of fake girlfriends to try and hide his sexuality from his team mates and family but in the end he was gay and couldn't change the way he was, it had nothing to do with choice.

I have no doubt many enjoy being gay and the gay community is a very supportive one. But surely you can't deny the stigma attached to being gay? We only have to look at this thread with goangod being a perfect example of branding homosexuals as paedophiles.

So you’re not a homophobe moffo? You just share some of their arguments and logic but not a homophobe and you have faith in a religion that says homosexuality is immoral. But not a homophobe? Ok.

Yes Salivor, i do remember school well. People get persecuted for pretty much everything. Being gay would just be one. Looking a bit different, liking a different sort of music, ffs, eating a sandwich with something odd in it would probably get you persecuted at school! I dont doubt for a second that people who persecute gays are losers

I did see the Roberts story. If he was a homosexual as such all along, i dont understand how he could keep on going about his business of bonking girls for 30 odd years. Hide his sexuality? Yeh, ok, sorry but i dont buy that one

Read my lips...im not homophobic. Go on, read it again. The religious argument is irrelevant as i've said before, that i don't follow to the letter of the word everything in the religion.

What argument have i pushed that suggests im a homophobe? What, because i dont think people are born gay im a homophobe? Im not sure if you understand the implications of being homophobic

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Moffo]

I qualified my 'turn' statement in the next paragraph by saying that 16 would be about the age that people start exhibiting to the community that they are gay. Put it this way, you don't see many 12yr olds who will come out in public and declare they are gay, would u?

Being 'hetrosexual' is what we are born with. Its why boys are born with different things to girls mate Its not natural to desire something that we already have on our own body

Yet you think there’s no persecution attached to being a homosexual. Ever wonder why 12 year olds might not come out and declare they are homosexual? Didn't put much thought into that one did you?

You next paragraph is a laugh, and you say your not homophobic, hmm might want to be a bit more careful with what you say then. Having bits that fit with the opposite sex is totally different to sexuality. We are talking about sexual attraction, sexual desire which comes on around puberty. I don't think around puberty we have any control over which sex we are sexually attracted to. It’s not a choice but if it is then both heterosexuality and homosexuality are acquired lifestyles. If you can chose which sex your sexually attracted to then there’s no difference between how people become homosexuals, heterosexuals, bisexuals or anything else.

There is persecution attached to being almost anything at that age mate. Race, Look, Sexual preference, you name it. I doubt at 12 a person would even have the maturity to know what they want

My next paragraph was intended as a joke. Good to see you took it that way \\/

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[salivor]

Moffo it’s a stereotype whether you like it or not. We have no accurate figures on gay people. Can you walk down a street and pick out who is straight and who is gay. For all we know half the population are homosexuals. We can only take statistics from openly homosexuals and therefore they are flawed. You are only going off a stereotype that we are force fed but be my guest to keep on those rose coloured glasses.

This is exactly like goangod and his paedophilia link whether you like it or not. He’s arguing that since homosexuals are over-represented in paedophile statistics there must be a link there. You’re both using the same logic so you can't on one hand say there’s a link between feminine males and homosexuals but throw the logic out the window for paedophiles and homosexuals.

'Turn', I really like that phrase moffo. Poor choice of wording by yourself. Most people don't turn gay at 16, most people let those around them know that they are gay at that age. The problem here is that your trying to make out as if homosexuality is different to heterosexuality. We can just as easily say that people turn heterosexual at 16 so it too is an acquired lifestyle.

There is persecution of gays in society whether you like it or not. I'm sure its not that long ago since you were in college. You know what immature boys are like. If your not blatantly homophobic you must therefore be a homosexual. They use such great logic. I think it takes a hell of a lot of balls for any gay person to come out in their teens in a school environment. It’s much easier to do it a little later in life.

So moffo by your logic. If guys can chose to be attracted to guys then they can also chose to be attracted to girls. So is heterosexuality an acquired lifestyle moffo? Or is it only homosexuality that is an acquired lifestyle? I'd really like to hear yours or goangods view on this as the other side of the fence seems to be avoiding touching this issue.

So now moffo are you saying that some gay men don't have girlfriends and wives to try and hide their homosexuality? A great case here is Ian Roberts. He had a lot of fake girlfriends to try and hide his sexuality from his team mates and family but in the end he was gay and couldn't change the way he was, it had nothing to do with choice.

I have no doubt many enjoy being gay and the gay community is a very supportive one. But surely you can't deny the stigma attached to being gay? We only have to look at this thread with goangod being a perfect example of branding homosexuals as paedophiles.

So you’re not a homophobe moffo? You just share some of their arguments and logic but not a homophobe and you have faith in a religion that says homosexuality is immoral. But not a homophobe? Ok.

Yes Salivor, i do remember school well. People get persecuted for pretty much everything. Being gay would just be one. Looking a bit different, liking a different sort of music, ffs, eating a sandwich with something odd in it would probably get you persecuted at school! I dont doubt for a second that people who persecute gays are losers

I did see the Roberts story. If he was a homosexual as such all along, i dont understand how he could keep on going about his business of bonking girls for 30 odd years. Hide his sexuality? Yeh, ok, sorry but i dont buy that one

Read my lips...im not homophobic. Go on, read it again. The religious argument is irrelevant as i've said before, that i don't follow to the letter of the word everything in the religion.

What argument have i pushed that suggests im a homophobe? What, because i dont think people are born gay im a homophobe? Im not sure if you understand the implications of being homophobic

Cheers,
Moffo

Now who isn't reading the others post? Couldn't even answer the questions I put to you.

If you don't deny that there is persecution of gays in society then how can you deny that there are homosexuals out there who don't want to be who they are because of that persecution? If it was just a choice then they could easily turn back into heterosexuals and couldn't they and avoid the pain and persecution?

Have you read Matthew Ridge's biography Take no Prisoners? Its quite an interesting read and with Matthew being a close friend of Roberts there’s a few bits in there about him. When Ridge first met Roberts when Roberts was younger he thought he was heterosexual. He was going through the fake girlfriend stage but Ridge used to always notice Roberts would have young males (not that young goangod!) waiting in his car at training. He was obviously leading another life. When Roberts finally came out Ridge said to him that Roberts could have any woman he wanted so why didn't he. Roberts replied that he can't change the way he feels, that’s how he’s always been. To him the thought of a man and a woman having sex was as repulsive as the thought of two men having sex can be to a heterosexual. That’s not the comment of a person who has chosen to be homosexual, that’s a person who has always been homosexual and can't change the way that they are.

The religious argument is relevant whether you like it or not. When you go to heaven moffo I hate to tell you but there’s probably not going to be any homosexuals there with you, they're likely to be a lot further south. You have faith in a religion that views homosexuality as immoral and that’s very relevant. I'll use the words of goangod the best I can remember them from a past thread. He was questioning some members on how they could call themselves catholic. If they disagreed with the Catholic Church on fundamental issues such as abortion and homosexuality that the church makes a strong stance on how could they possibly call themselves catholic? Now I don't know if your catholic or not but most denominations are pretty strong on their homosexuality stance.

You’re not homophobic? Your logic on the link between feminine homosexuals and homosexuality is exactly the same as goangods logic on paedophilia and homosexuals. You’re trying to make a link using exactly the same logic so therefore you must share the same views as goangod in relation to paedophilia. You can't use the logic to back up one part of your argument and then say the exact same logic is wrong when it’s used to prove something else. Doesn't work that way moffo, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Moffo]

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Moffo it’s a stereotype whether you like it or not. We have no accurate figures on gay people. Can you walk down a street and pick out who is straight and who is gay. For all we know half the population are homosexuals. We can only take statistics from openly homosexuals and therefore they are flawed. You are only going off a stereotype that we are force fed but be my guest to keep on those rose coloured glasses.

This is exactly like goangod and his paedophilia link whether you like it or not. He’s arguing that since homosexuals are over-represented in paedophile statistics there must be a link there. You’re both using the same logic so you can't on one hand say there’s a link between feminine males and homosexuals but throw the logic out the window for paedophiles and homosexuals.

'Turn', I really like that phrase moffo. Poor choice of wording by yourself. Most people don't turn gay at 16, most people let those around them know that they are gay at that age. The problem here is that your trying to make out as if homosexuality is different to heterosexuality. We can just as easily say that people turn heterosexual at 16 so it too is an acquired lifestyle.

There is persecution of gays in society whether you like it or not. I'm sure its not that long ago since you were in college. You know what immature boys are like. If your not blatantly homophobic you must therefore be a homosexual. They use such great logic. I think it takes a hell of a lot of balls for any gay person to come out in their teens in a school environment. It’s much easier to do it a little later in life.

So moffo by your logic. If guys can chose to be attracted to guys then they can also chose to be attracted to girls. So is heterosexuality an acquired lifestyle moffo? Or is it only homosexuality that is an acquired lifestyle? I'd really like to hear yours or goangods view on this as the other side of the fence seems to be avoiding touching this issue.

So now moffo are you saying that some gay men don't have girlfriends and wives to try and hide their homosexuality? A great case here is Ian Roberts. He had a lot of fake girlfriends to try and hide his sexuality from his team mates and family but in the end he was gay and couldn't change the way he was, it had nothing to do with choice.

I have no doubt many enjoy being gay and the gay community is a very supportive one. But surely you can't deny the stigma attached to being gay? We only have to look at this thread with goangod being a perfect example of branding homosexuals as paedophiles.

So you’re not a homophobe moffo? You just share some of their arguments and logic but not a homophobe and you have faith in a religion that says homosexuality is immoral. But not a homophobe? Ok.

Yes Salivor, i do remember school well. People get persecuted for pretty much everything. Being gay would just be one. Looking a bit different, liking a different sort of music, ffs, eating a sandwich with something odd in it would probably get you persecuted at school! I dont doubt for a second that people who persecute gays are losers

I did see the Roberts story. If he was a homosexual as such all along, i dont understand how he could keep on going about his business of bonking girls for 30 odd years. Hide his sexuality? Yeh, ok, sorry but i dont buy that one

Read my lips...im not homophobic. Go on, read it again. The religious argument is irrelevant as i've said before, that i don't follow to the letter of the word everything in the religion.

What argument have i pushed that suggests im a homophobe? What, because i dont think people are born gay im a homophobe? Im not sure if you understand the implications of being homophobic

Cheers,
Moffo

Now who isn't reading the others post? Couldn't even answer the questions I put to you.

If you don't deny that there is persecution of gays in society then how can you deny that there are homosexuals out there who don't want to be who they are because of that persecution? If it was just a choice then they could easily turn back into heterosexuals and couldn't they and avoid the pain and persecution?

Have you read Matthew Ridge's biography Take no Prisoners? Its quite an interesting read and with Matthew being a close friend of Roberts there’s a few bits in there about him. When Ridge first met Roberts when Roberts was younger he thought he was heterosexual. He was going through the fake girlfriend stage but Ridge used to always notice Roberts would have young males (not that young goangod!) waiting in his car at training. He was obviously leading another life. When Roberts finally came out Ridge said to him that Roberts could have any woman he wanted so why didn't he. Roberts replied that he can't change the way he feels, that’s how he’s always been. To him the thought of a man and a woman having sex was as repulsive as the thought of two men having sex can be to a heterosexual. That’s not the comment of a person who has chosen to be homosexual, that’s a person who has always been homosexual and can't change the way that they are.

The religious argument is relevant whether you like it or not. When you go to heaven moffo I hate to tell you but there’s probably not going to be any homosexuals there with you, they're likely to be a lot further south. You have faith in a religion that views homosexuality as immoral and that’s very relevant. I'll use the words of goangod the best I can remember them from a past thread. He was questioning some members on how they could call themselves catholic. If they disagreed with the Catholic Church on fundamental issues such as abortion and homosexuality that the church makes a strong stance on how could they possibly call themselves catholic? Now I don't know if your catholic or not but most denominations are pretty strong on their homosexuality stance.

You’re not homophobic? Your logic on the link between feminine homosexuals and homosexuality is exactly the same as goangods logic on paedophilia and homosexuals. You’re trying to make a link using exactly the same logic so therefore you must share the same views as goangod in relation to paedophilia. You can't use the logic to back up one part of your argument and then say the exact same logic is wrong when it’s used to prove something else. Doesn't work that way moffo, ignorance is bliss.

No! If they believe in being gay then why would they want to go back? A bit of pain wouldn't stop me from doing something i was determined to do.

Roberts liked guys. OK, thats fine. But i dont know how you draw the line that he was always gay because of those comments. If he thought the feeling was repulsive, then why did he (assumedly) have sex with a number of different girls? Eh, doesn't add up

The religious argument is silly. I am catholic, but even within the church, every person has a different take on what to believe in. The top of the church is against homosexuality, true. But i have the view that im accepting of gays. Im not saying that i support their lifestyle or anything like that, but what i mean is that im not going to go out of my way to persecute them.

If you wish to stick with trying to prove some half arsed point that there is a percentage of gays that are not feminine (which i have already admitted to), then go ahead. But to say that there is no correlation is freaking ridiculous. I've seen enough gay people to say that with confidence, absolute confidence

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Terminator]

You said only the top end of the Catholic church doesnt accept gays, actually most of the congregation doesnt accept gays, you are in the minority of church goers who would welcome gay couples into the Catholic fellowship, not the majority, and hopefully our church won't crumble to the perversion that has reeled in the Anglican and Uniting Churches.

 

[Moffo]

You said only the top end of the Catholic church doesnt accept gays, actually most of the congregation doesnt accept gays, you are in the minority of church goers who would welcome gay couples into the Catholic fellowship, not the majority, and hopefully our church won't crumble to the perversion that has reeled in the Anglican and Uniting Churches.

Im not a card carrying fan of homosexuals, don't get me wrong. But there is no way i would persecute them. I believe in people having a choice to do as they please

Cheers,
Moffo