Thoughts on society.....

[imported_JoeD]

Marcus, is there anywhere online I can check out Psalms 118 verse 8? I don't have a bible handy but you've made me very curious.

 

[imported_JoeD]

There have also been thousands of people who have claimed to be abducted by aliens but does it really validate such claims that aliens exsist and visit earth?

Yes.

IMO there is just as much evidence that aliens exist as there is that aspirins cure head aches. I've never had an aspirin cure a headache but millions of people claim they do, who am I to argue?

 

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[Cronulla_Mania]

Yeh, thats the one.

Interesting read, i to would be interested to know why all apes haven't evolved. The skeptic point is a good one as well
Cheers,
Moffo

 

[CanadianSteve]

Great post Marcus.

JoeD: Everything we do is predetermined by 3 factors we have no control over. They are 1. our genes, 2. our environment and 3. our past experiences. I would change predetermined to heavily influenced. Surely everything we do is not absolutely predetermined.

A good example of this is ask yourself, what was the first thought you had when you woke up this morning? Whatever it was did you have any control over it? Now you might say there is a big difference between that and a big decision that you ponder over for hours . . . like what to have for lunch. The decision you make is controlled by your particular tastes at that time(ie 1. and 3.) and what is available to eat (2.) So you really don't have any choice. I challenge anyone to come up with an argument that says we have free will.
But when you open the fridge, or go to the restaurant, there is some choice, and you choose one food over the other. To pick a less trivial example: When as a kid you were tempted to shoplift something in a store, or cheat on a test in school, you make a free will choice whether or not to do it. The factors you mention will influence the decision, but there is still a choice to be made.

 

[dubopov]

I long for the day when God apears...AND she is a black,lesbian communist !!!...And all the hypocritical bigots hiding under the skirt of Christianity can be exposed for what they really are..

 

[El Duque]

lol

I saw God on South Park.

 

[Willow]

Marcus: "On evolution... if humans came from apes... then why do we still have apes? - why haven't they evolved? "
All Species have evolved... especially Apes who are evolving more than most other species.
The Bonobos evolved into an unique ape species in only 5000 years after they were separated from the Chimpanzees by the Zaire river.
Its like saying, why hasn't the Shark evolved? When in fact the Shark did evolve and still is, its just that it's evolution has slowed over the last 10 Milliion years.

As for Humans evolving from Apes, we don't know that. There has been two or three unique fossilised remains found that show a 'branch' of uprights who had spinal characteristics that are consistent with humans.
By 'branch' I mean a branch of evolution.
Rather than thinking that Humans evolved from Apes, we should think of an evolutionary tree with many branches going off in all directions.

People try to simplify evolution in an attempt to bring it down, when in reality, its quite complex and hard work. Its certainly more complex than believing totally in the writings of one book.

"For those that don't believe in the after-life/ or spirits well you might want to play a ouija board - get at least 3 people to play it."
Excuse me?
You may have to elaborate here. Are saying thatyou are a Lutheran and you also play Ouja boards and you believe in Ouija boards?
Its a rather childish pursuit imo.
I used to shove the little piece around a bit as kid just to scare the folks. When I wasn't doing it, someone else was. It frightened the oldies so much that they burned the board...lol.

"There has been thousands of cases of people having near-death experiences or out of body experiences to validate such claims. "
There have been millions more that have seen nothing. The near death experiences are explained by images in the brain as it battles for survival.
In simple terms...
If you firmly believe in heaven andall its glory, then you'll most likely seea bright light when the brain is in trauma. If you believe in hell and have a guilty conscience, you'll see fire and despair. If you are an Athiest, you'll see and recall nothing before being brought back from the operating table.

Marcus... I don't know what to say about your beliefs in witchcraft and faith healing. I'm tempted to think that there is one born every minute and con-men pray on the gullible. But I guess I'll have to settle for leaving you to your opinion and your 'smorgasbord' of spiritual beliefs...
Better let you back for a double helping.

 

[CanadianSteve]

On second reading of Marcus's post,I don't like the sound of that "Christian who practices witchcraft" stuff. Marcus, I don't believe there is a "good kind."

Willow: I don't know what to make of the near-death experience stuff. I did read a book in the 70s called <u>Life After Life</u> by a Dr. Raymond Moody. This was before I became a Christian. I remember that it seemed convincing, and contrary to what you said, all people he interviewed seemed to see the same thing, a being of light at the end of a long tunnel. It didn't seem to matter if they were religious or not, they all saw close to the same thing. But I've never followed up on it since about whether medical science has explained the phenomenon or not. I haven't heard what Bronco posted in #442 before, about "the process the eyes go through when the body is dying."

 

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[Willow]

Canadian Steve: "On second reading of Marcus's post,I don't like the sound of that "Christian who practices witchcraft" stuff. "
I have to say that i was surprised by your support of the post.... good clarification.
IMHO, someone who believes in the bible and also believe in witches, faith healing, Ouija boards and astral travelhas a credibility problem.

"I did read a book in the 70s called <u>Life After Life</u> "
This near death experience stuff was all the rage in the 70s. There were a number of books and I remember reading a few with fascination. They were in the same section of the book store as 'Chariot of the Gods' and Alien abductions..lol.

As Bronco said, there have been studies done and "the process the eyes go through when the body is dying" is raised as being part of what the brain does when it is going through trauma. The brain has powerful reactions when it is fighting for survival and some say the sub-conscience takes over.

Unfortunately these books that you and I had seem to make their claims without anyone to counter the argument.
While the jury us still out on this, it's clear that modern studies have moved on somewhat since these books were written in 1970s.

 

[imported_Brook]

On evolution... if humans came from apes... then why do we still have apes? - why haven't they evolved?

the answer is we didn't come from apes. What evolutionists state is that humankind and apes bothevolved from a common ancestor - we are evolutionary cousins not descendants

 

[CanadianSteve]

Willow: re your comments on evolution: If the bonobos evolved so easily just by being separated by a river, why is there only one species of man? And how do evolutionists explain man's intelligence, speech, sense of morality and conscience, etc.? I believe in creationism, not evolution, but I'm not asking to provoke an argument. I want to hear the evolution side of these questions.

 

[imported_Brook]

Willow: re your comments on evolution: If the bonobos evolved so easily just by being separated by a river, why is there only one species of man?

just to take this point - there are many evolutionary differences between different groups of men. I'm sure you would probably know Inuit's (excuse my terrible spelling, eskimo's) have developed many different features that allow them to survive in much cooler temperatures - in the same way those peoples who came from areas closer to the equator have much darker skin. It is not 'chance' that all these differences between races provide help in dealing with the specific environments in which they live. We don't like to refer to each other as different species (and i'm not saying that we should) but there is just as much variation between certain groups of people as there are between some species of apes, dogs etc

 

[El Duque]

Will people from Australia eventually turn black??

 

[Willow]

CS: "If the bonobos evolved so easily just by being separated by a river, why is there only one species of man? "
Not so fast Steve. You onlygot a snippet of the story there and your drawing a conclusion.
People laugh at me for talking about the Bonobos but they are fantastic snap-shot of how animals (including Humans) adapt to a different environments.
imo... thisis more in line with the subject matter of this thread.

About 5000 years ago, the river (the one that goes through the Congo) was turned into a huge lake as the valley flooded. The Apes that lived in the region were separated into two groups: On one side it was rough terrain and food was come to by. The other side, the terrain was easily to negotiate and there was plenty of food.

The Apes living in harsh conditions turned into Chimpanzees who are murderous thugs. the Chimps have a Patriarchal society where rape and torture is commonplace. They hunt each down and hunt down down and eat smaller Apes.

The Apes living in more plentiful conditions turned into Bonobos. The Bonobos are a Matriarchal society who live in peace and solve their arguments by Ron Cooting. They are more prone to stand upright and they care for their young in a more loving manner than their counterparts.

There's plenty of material about the Bonobos on the internet if you want to type them into a search engine.

Unfortunately, they are facing a threat from Humans as theCongo is racked by war and there is virtually no environmental control.

To answer your question as to why there is only one species of man... well there wasn't. As I said earlier, the have been fossilised remains found of different branches of the Human species.
I understand that a telling skeletal difference between Humans and Apesis in the spinal column.... something to do with the top of the spine. Humans have a gap while Apes do not. The theory is that we did not descend from the Apes as much as we were part of another branch.
Anything beyond that will require the services of a Anthropologist.

 

[Willow]

El: "Will people from Australia eventually turn black??"
People from Australia are already black.

 

[ozbash]

If the bonobos evolved so easily just by being separated by a river, why is there only one species of man?

theres more than 1 species,, we have african,chinese,european,aboriginal etc etc

you cant tell me a chinaman is the same as an aboriginal.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Just for the record, I believe that "gap" in human evolution won't be found. Because man was created separately from animals.

I did do a search on bonobos apes and read about the bush meat industry that may be leading to their extinction. Sad. The same article I saw said in passing that anthropologists don't agree on whether they are related to chimps or not.

I agree that changes happen within species, though I don't accept the millions of years required by evolutionists. But I don't think it's believable that one species turned into another. God made animals "after their kind" meaning within their own species.

 

[Willow]

..and Pygmies.
You see them at Randwick races every week...