Thoughts on society.....

[CanadianSteve]

Ozbash and Brook have touched on the idea of the different races of man being different species. Obviously a touchy subject as far as race relations go. What is the evolutionist positon on this - did all men come from a common ancestor, or did different races come from different ancestors? If the second, how can people of different races intermarry and have children?

 

[Willow]

Steve, I'm not sure that the 'gap' or the 'missing link' exists anymore.
The fossil evidence is now huge that there have been animals and branches of evolution stemming from all over the place for hundreds of eons. You can't simply say it isn't so.
Scientists will argue over things but this is because they are trying to seek out the answers to the hard questions and with this, new questions will often surface.
Why does it always have to come back to God...?

 

[Willow]

CS: "What is the evolutionist positon on this - did all men come from a common ancestor, or did different races come from different ancestors? "
Well I have positive proof of one thing...

As previously said, evolution is NOT a case of there being one single dimension of development. Evolution is not creationism.
Think ofit as a tree which has branches on it. Some branches stop growing, some break off and some continue to grow and branch off into completely new branches.
There has been fossils found which show clear evidence of not one but two or three human ancestors. There must be more which are also in the tree.

 

[imported_Brook]

Canadian Steve,

Firstly i was wrong to use the word species, 'sub species' would be closer to what I believe to be the truth. Yes We certainly do have a common ancestor (and a lot more recent than the common ancestor we share with the apes!). The differing environmental conditions has produces different evolutionary responses between the different races but just as a wolf a labrador and a dingo are canines and can all interbreed the different races are all still humans, all share 99% (actually more) of the same DNA and all of course can have children together.

 

[imported_Brook]

There has been fossils found which show clear evidence of not one but two or three human ancestors. There must be more which are also in the tree.

This is getting onto hotly disputed territory!! I tend to like the idea myself, I know the Australian Aboriginal Peoples have always claimed that they did not come to Australia through Asia rather that they have 'always' been here and I was rather delighted when evidence was found that could prove they might be right - that the did evolve seperately (along with other groups elsewhere in the world). But The majority of scientists still find holes in this theory and its the common ancestor one that accounts for the majority view.

 

[Willow]

Brook: "This is getting onto hotly disputed territory!! I tend to like the idea myself..."

There was really neat documentary that coincided with some interesting discoveries and it got into the news a little while back.
It was long held theory that we must have more than one human ancestor. The reason why this was in dispute was because a number of evolutionists held onto the old 'timeline' theory... the ascent of man as his species developed and interbred into what we have today.

But to many, it stood to reason that if we accept that there is many branches of evolution for other species then we must keep digging to see if there is more than one branch for humans.

As it turned out, the remains of another different 'human' species or 'proto-human' was found and its believed we are close to identifying a third.

The remains of a hominid called 'ape-man' (I think) was found in Kenya and is about6-7 million years old which is the oldest human bones ever found. Older than
'Lucy' (3 million years), another set of bones who also walked upright. Both Apeman and Lucy are separate species to each other.

There has been another series of bones found as well, called 'Toumai' which are over 7 million years old but Palaeontologists are squabbling over this discovery. Its fair to say thatit has turned their world 'on its head'. The dispute is over which side of the treeToumai should be on, the Primate side or the Human side. Bone structures support that this is Human but its didnt walk upright. The Jury is still out on that one.

 

[Marcus]

Willow, I am from a country that still practices in many partswitchcraft or black magic or whatever you want to call it. It doesn't bother me if you don't believe in it... but from my experiences and from friends these things do happen. People from a western background won't understand this kind of thing cause nearly all of you wouldn't be exposed to such things.

There are near-death experiences that have also involved out-of-body experiences. There have been cases of people who have had OBE and able to witness the people trying to save their live - even describing what was going on and what instruments that the doctors were using etc.

Oh Ouija boards do work. Your contacting spirits, and in order to stop people from moving the device you have to ask questions that no one else in the room will know. And no I don't play it, cause its pretty freaky stuff, who knows you could be attracting a bad spirit.

Willow you have got quite a closed mind you know, or maybe you have just had limited/no experience with the paranormal. But there will be amoment in your life were you will be enlightened - but it just won't happen now.

CanadianSteve, I just labelled what my relative does as "witchcraft" cause I'm not sure what else to call it. What he does is ofa good sort - he is a devote Catholic.


Also what is everyones earliest memory?...

Mine was probably when I was about 2. But doesn't it feel like we have been on this earth forever?

 

[El Duque]

Why did God create fat, ugly women and then let them wear bike pants??

 

[Willow]

Marcus: "Willow you have got quite a closed mind you know, or maybe you have just had limited/no experience with the paranormal. But there will be amoment in your life were you will be enlightened "

No need to be condenscending Marcus...oh and thanks so much for preaching at me...ram it down and act like you have all the answers. What a joke.

You think its closed mindedness because I don't believe in the same things as you...?
lol very funny.
You don't believe in the same things as me... does that mean that I can call you narrow minded as well? Offcourse not...that's because we all have opinions... Wake up.

Now, before you pass judgment on me again, let me say that I appreciate that every culture has a right to exercise its own form of religious freedom.
Don't tell me I don't understand this because you simply dont know.

Conversely, the right should exist to question the status quo.

Furthermore, I appreciate that some cultures take in and mix their spritual beliefs according to the beliefs systems which they are exposed to.

If you want to believe in everything of a paranormalnature to be unquestionably true, then thats up to you. And if after all that, you still see yourself as a Christain then I respect your beliefs.

If I choose to be sceptical and question those things that others want me to believe the I ask that you show the same respect.

Now....
I have to ask Moffo and Canadian Steve a theological question:
Do you remember when we were struggling with the notion as to whether or not Mormons were 'true' Christians? I thought they were because they that's what they believed. While Moffo said they werent really in line with the Vatican and Steve said they had a different Bible.

Does the same go for Christians who believe in witchcraft, faith healing, Ouija boards and the paranormal?

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

I think i qualified my point on Mormons Willow. I said that Mormons saw themselves as Christians. I also said that the Vatican is the head of the catholic church, not the christian one. As you have mentioned, there are many different groups that exist under the broad christian title.

Marcus mentioned that he was Lutheran. Im stabbing in the dark a little here, but ive never heard of belief in the paranormal being listed under lutheran 'teachings'. In fact, id be quite surprised if this were the case. Im more willing to bet that Marcus is a Lutheran who has his own take on several things that may not exactly be in line with Lutheran teachings (a bit like me with Catholic teachings)

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Willow]

Nicely side stepped Moffo.
"I think i qualified my point on Mormons Willow. I said that Mormons saw themselves as Christians. "
lol... But originally you said that Mormonsand Christians were different things.
Just to clarify things, It was actually me who said that Mormons see themselves as Christians... you initially diagreed with this citing the Vatican's refusal to recognise the interpretation of the Mormom's bible.
Thats right, you changed your mind didn't you?

But seriously mate, lets answer the question... if you can....

Isa Lutheran who believes who believes in witchcraft, faith healing, Ouija boards and the paranormal a Christian, or someone who sees himself as a Christian?

...and how is believing in witchcraft, faith healing, Ouija boards and the paranormal a bit like you and your catholic teachings?

 

[El Duque]

Moff, what about the fat, ugly women in bike pants?

What is their purpose?

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

I said i qualified my point mate. Yes, i initially disagreed, but i did change my thoughts somewhat. I hope im allowed to do this

And no, i dont think i was sidestepping anything IMHO

"Isa Lutheran who believes who believes in witchcraft, faith healing, Ouija boards and the paranormal a Christian, or someone who sees himself as a Christian?"

I answered that in my last post. I don't think they do, and ill wait for Marcus to clarify that. At least i dont think its a Lutheran teaching.

If a Lutheran believed in that, than i guess they are still Christian. But it isn't a christian teaching (as far as i know) and in no way would the Christian church agree with the individuals standpoint on the issue. But still a christian none the less, unless they totally denounced their faith. what im saying is that this particular aspect of their 'faith set' would not be agreed with by the christian church. They would still be a christian

"...and how is believing in witchcraft, faith healing, Ouija boards and the paranormal a bit like you and your catholic teachings?"

What? Don't get it. Does the question have to do with faith, as in there is no proof that any of theseexist/work?

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Cronulla_Mania]

Not all women serve the purpose of looking pretty on Earth El. Some are there for other reasons, such as making the hot women look hot

Na, all im saying is that women fulfill many roles in life, not all of them can be 11/10 stunners

Cheers,
Moffo

 

[Willow]

Moffo:
A wise forummer once said: "The great thing about these discussion groups is that we sometimes come across a debate which has the power to change our opinion - the trick is to be able to acknowledge that change of opinion".

So Moffo, I dip me hat to ya.

'"Isa Lutheran who believes who believes in witchcraft, faith healing, Ouija boards and the paranormal a Christian, or someone who sees himself as a Christian?'
btw, I'm not saying this for marcus's benefit. It just struck me that you christian guys tend to stick together. Good on ya for that I suppose.

But ifFred Blotwas aChristian member of this community and busted inearly to declare his Mormonship, youmay have been quicker to havethat change of mind...

"Willow: "...and how is believing in witchcraft, faith healing, Ouija boards and the paranormal a bit like you and your catholic teachings?"
Moffo: "What? Don't get it. Does the question have to do with faith, as in there is no proof that any of theseexist/work? "
I said that because you said: "Marcus is a Lutheran who has his own take on several things that may not exactly be in line with Lutheran teachings <u>(a bit like me with Catholic teachings</u>)" and I was just asking what the connection was between marcus'sBIZARRE beliefs and your more conservative catholic beliefs. The seem miles apart to me.

(disclaimer: the word 'bizarre' was too hard to pass up and unavoidable. If this word offends, please replace it with 'broadminded')

Anyway, apart from all the shit stirring etc, I just thought that belief in the occult was in some way against the teachings of the church... I must have read that somewhere.

 

[EvolutionEYE]

the blacks in australia have 1chro·mo·some less than us thats why you never get a throw back black baby from australian blacks GOD love them so much he made them to be bred out<span>(</span><span>P</span><span>)</span>Pronunciation Key(kr

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n.

1. A threadlike linear strand of DNA and associated proteins in the nucleus of eukaryotic cells that carries the genes and functions in the transmission of hereditary information.
2. A circular strand of DNA in bacteria that contains the hereditary information necessary for cell life.

<hr align=left width="25%"> chro

mo·so

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mic (-s

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mal·ly adv.

 

[Marcus]

Marcus mentioned that he was Lutheran. Im stabbing in the dark a little here, but ive never heard of belief in the paranormal being listed under lutheran 'teachings'. In fact, id be quite surprised if this were the case. Im more willing to bet that Marcus is a Lutheran who has his own take on several things that may not exactly be in line with Lutheran teachings (a bit like me with Catholic teachings) - MFC

Quite right MFC. Lutheran falls under the protestant branch and sothere teachings certainly do not extend on the paranormal. There is no way that pastors would advocate practicing contacting the spirits with a ouija board - they are quite against such a thing and quite rightly so cause it can be dangerous.

Basically I believe in God, Jesus, and a lot of what the Bible says. Where I disagree sometimes is I don't believe that being a Christian will entitle you to the kingdom of heaven and all others will not enter. I sometimes think living a good life and doing good things is sometimes more important that believing in God - cause at the end of the day we will be judged by our actions. I believe in Karma too (or "what goes around comes around") and happens to be quite true.



Willow, how did the universe come about?

 

[Willow]

The questionis still being asked with the big bang being the most popular answer.

Marcus: "On evolution... if humans came from apes... then why do we still have apes? - why haven't they evolved? "

Apes have evolved and continue to do so. Your assertion that they haven't evolved is wrong.
Evolutionists don't neccessarily believe that humans come from apes.... again, you are wrong. Thats something that people just say to make themselves feel smug and superior...
To be honest, it offensive and almost a put down of Apes.

Answer this. Do you understand that species are evolving?

 

[El Duque]

Why didn't this God dude give himself/herself a name??

Like wouldn't it be better if he was Max or maybe Bruce??

I think Bob the builder is a god cause he can fix it.

He even has a website www.bobthebuilder.com

Does God have a web site???

 

[Marcus]

Willow, I want to hear your take of the universe.

If you believe in the big-bang theory, how exactly can nothing be created from nothing?