Todd Greenberg has pretty much said one Sydney team will be relocated.

[Diesel]

I asked this question on NRL360 the other night. #askkenty

answer:: "possibly the dumbest question I've ever hear"

Ahhh yeah I remember that one.
Seriously though if you were starting the NRL from scratch that’s exactly how you’d do it.
I remember around 98/99 there was a concept of one team merged from Norths, Balmain, Wests and maybe Souths or Easts calling the team Sydney United. Not a bad idea IMO

 

[adamkungl]

Central Coast is too close to Sydney, they would in fact be another Sydney team when there are already too many. Their ship sailed 20 years ago when they failed to support the Northern Eagles. Adelaide is very iffy, its a very conservative AFL town, just 2/3 the population of Perth with not many expats. NZ2 might work but I wouldn't count on it.

Central Coast is only a relocation option, so there wouldn't be 'another' Sydney team.

If Adelaide can pull 20k for Roosters games it's not a stretch to think they could average a solid 15k or so. Perth and Adelaide often miss out on big events that come to the 3 big East coast cities and definitely hold some resentment about that, I think they'd support any big time events coming their way.

Previous RL events in Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin all show some solid support that a full time presence would only grow.

 

[TheFrog]

Seriously though if you were starting the NRL from scratch that’s exactly how you’d do it.

But you're not, and that is why it was not helpful, except for a chuckle ie Toongabbie Tip Rats. I'd have said Gordon Goats.

Soccer were able to do it with the A league, but rugby league is far more entrenched in this city. Look at TV audiences rather than crowds.

 

[Captain Apollo]

https://wwos.nine.com.au/nrl/reloca...cating-an-existing-nrl-team-won-t-work_220319

 

[Perth Red]

They also have a massive supporter base throughout the country due to their sustained period of on-field success between 1950-1990.

Unless those fans are buying merchandise, memberships or attending games they aren’t much use to clubs bottom lines. You can see the massive difference it makes to clubs bottom lines if you have a big attending fan base in the other thread I created showing football related revenue generation.

 

[adamkungl]

Manly digging their heels in too, claiming their catchment area has 1 million people...

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...s/news-story/32248e07b1551db0cfa76ab779b3314e

 

[Perth Red]

The thing that would concern me most about a relocation would be ownership of the club. If it continued to be owned by the Sydney entity then every bad year off the field would see Sydney centric media creating noise about moving back. That would massively undermine local confidence of fans and corporates to invest in the relocated club.

Only way I could see it working would be if the license is sold to local ownership with the original entity maybe having a minority share in the new club. It’s hard to see any Sydney club being willing to let their “brand” go to new ownership in another city. I’d suggest most would rather drop into the second tier than let that happen.

 

[adamkungl]

I don't think any club will willingly relocate. You could argue that Manly or Cronulla have the most reason to and have already pre-emptively dug their heels in based purely on wild media speculation, Wests too.

I don't think Greenberg is the kind of leader to force a club to move either.

Bringing us back to scenario 3, where a club is in financial danger and the NRL takes control to save them.
In this case, the NRL would take the licence, colours and logo, stick them in Gosford Perth or Adelaide, and appoint new owners.

 

[BuffaloRules]

I don't think any club will willingly relocate. You could argue that Manly or Cronulla have the most reason to and have already pre-emptively dug their heels in based purely on wild media speculation, Wests too.

I don't think Greenberg is the kind of leader to force a club to move either.

Bringing us back to scenario 3, where a club is in financial danger and the NRL takes control to save them.
In this case, the NRL would take the licence, colours and logo, stick them in Gosford Perth or Adelaide, and appoint new owners.

Why are Wests even in this debate with Manly and Cronulla?

I think they would be one of the least likely Sydney clubs to relocate considering their support in Sydney...

 

[adamkungl]

Why are Wests even in this debate with Manly and Cronulla?

That's an interesting question. There's no doubt Wests come up more than they deserve in this conversation. I raised it on Twitter yesterday, and my theory was shot down and sooked about by Tigpies fans.

90% of relocation suggestions are mostly butthurt fans picking the clubs they don't like (Roosters), or the team that came last the previous year (Eels).
But Wests don't really have a lot of haters, and despite the finals drought have never been truly appalling on the field.

My theory is - people see them lacking a strong home ground and think that being spread so thin means they don't really represent anywhere strongly. And if they don't stand strong for anywhere in particular, why does it matter if they move ? They'll still be in Sydney half the time anyway.

 

[BuffaloRules]

That's an interesting question. There's no doubt Wests come up more than they deserve in this conversation. I raised it on Twitter yesterday, and my theory was shot down and sooked about by Tigpies fans.

90% of relocation suggestions are mostly butthurt fans picking the clubs they don't like (Roosters), or the team that came last the previous year (Eels).
But Wests don't really have a lot of haters, and despite the finals drought have never been truly appalling on the field.

My theory is - people see them lacking a strong home ground and think that being spread so thin means they don't really represent anywhere strongly. And if they don't stand strong for anywhere in particular, why does it matter if they move ? They'll still be in Sydney half the time anyway.

Thanks for you your response...

Wests are one of the best supported Sydney teams in terms of crowds, TV ratings and members,,

If they move interstate, is that guaranteed to continue?

They even made a profit last year without even sniffing the Top 8 for the last gazillion years..

They are also backed by Wests Ashfield that seem to have plenty of dough...

I know the NRL admin have a history of cutting off their nose to spite their face, but do they really want to mess with all that positivity??

 

[adamkungl]

Thanks for you your response...

Wests are one of the best supported Sydney teams in terms of crowds, TV ratings and members,,

If they move interstate, is that guaranteed to continue?

They even made a profit last year without even sniffing the Top 8 for the last gazillion years..

They are also backed by Wests Ashfield that seem to have plenty of dough...

I know the NRL admin have a history of cutting off their nose to spite their face, but do they really want to mess with all that positivity??

It's a perception of weakness by media and fans due to the home ground split and the lack of finals.
I doubt Greenberg has ever entertained the idea of moving Wests, I am sure any serious analysis of the Sydney situation would show Wests to be in no risk.
Imo the club does itself a disservice by responding to the speculation, just fuels the fire.

Regarding the home ground split - I disagree with it, most Wests fans seem to be fine with it. Certainly not a real reason to relocate any club.
But, my opinion is Wests will take a shortcut to becoming a proper powerhouse club if they play more than half their games at New Parra Stadium and phase out Leichhardt.

 

[BuffaloRules]

It's a perception of weakness by media and fans due to the home ground split and the lack of finals.
I doubt Greenberg has ever entertained the idea of moving Wests, I am sure any serious analysis of the Sydney situation would show Wests to be in no risk.
Imo the club does itself a disservice by responding to the speculation, just fuels the fire.

Regarding the home ground split - I disagree with it, most Wests fans seem to be fine with it. Certainly not a real reason to relocate any club.
But, my opinion is Wests will take a shortcut to becoming a proper powerhouse club if they play more than half their games at New Parra Stadium and phase out Leichhardt.

Yeah .. I pretty much agree with what you are saying here... I think the history of what happened with the Balmain Leagues club also plays a part in other teams fans thinking they are at risk of going broke at any moment... which can I suggest is utter BS to those that are not aware of the true situation...

I think they will survive long term in Sydney..

Im a bit torn on the home ground allocation of games... I would like to see them play games at Parramatta but am also cognisant of them trying to build up a fan base in the Campbelltown area given the rapidly growing population base there... Unfortunately they seem more popular in the inner west area then the south west area so not sure what the solution is here...

 

[TheFrog]

Unless those fans are buying merchandise, memberships or attending games they aren’t much use to clubs bottom lines. You can see the massive difference it makes to clubs bottom lines if you have a big attending fan base in the other thread I created showing football related revenue generation.

If they watch on TV, that goes to the clubs via the NRL, but it goes equally to highly supported clubs as less supported ones.

 

[TheFrog]

I know the NRL admin have a history of cutting off their nose to spite their face, but do they really want to mess with all that positivity??

I doubt it very much, especially since Wests and Balmain took their medicine 20 years ago.

So if the Sharks are going to be allowed to use the coming windfall from selling their holdings to stay afloat, which money will eventually run out, that leaves Manly.

 

[Perth Red]

If they watch on TV, that goes to the clubs via the NRL, but it goes equally to highly supported clubs as less supported ones.

If they’re only watching on tv does it matter where the club is based?

 

[Perth Red]

I wonder if the nrl agreed to rig the draw and compensate the home club to give up a home game if that would ease the relocation pain?

Say wests were moved to Perth. If nrl guaranteed that the new perth west tigers played 12 home games in Perth and 12 “away” games at WSS if tigers fans in Sydney would go for it?

 

[taipan]

I doubt it very much, especially since Wests and Balmain took their medicine 20 years ago.

So if the Sharks are going to be allowed to use the coming windfall from selling their holdings to stay afloat, which money will eventually run out, that leaves Manly.

If Leagues clubs poker machine profits are allowed to be used for the football club, then any money the Sharks have in the Bank plus any profits coming from their refurbished Leagues club are also entitled to be used for the same "privilege."
If the money runs out after being used for example infrastructure improvement for their fans,then good on them.More like a future fund if done wisely.
If you look at the turnover compared to other Sydney clubs, they are doing more than a fair share.

I am starting to believe there will be no relocations ,,unless a club in deep brown stuff, and that we'll go to 18 teams.Too many other codes in Sydney now looking for a vacuum to fill eg A league in the South.
The Titans also need tp get their act together

 

[TheFrog]

If Leagues clubs poker machine profits are allowed to be used for the football club, then any money the Sharks have in the Bank plus any profits coming from their refurbished Leagues club are also entitled to be used for the same "privilege."

The difference being, this is a once only windfall, whereas pokies are ongoing.

Say wests were moved to Perth. If nrl guaranteed that the new perth west tigers played 12 home games in Perth and 12 “away” games at WSS if tigers fans in Sydney would go for it?

Tigers fans might go for it, but I'm not so sure about fans of other clubs, especially non-Sydney clubs. Perhaps if it is for just a single season, or if you only get Sydney teams to play at Parramatta for 3 years or so. It's going to mess with membership arrangements of clubs and their ability to sell them.

 

[Perth Red]

The difference being, this is a once only windfall, whereas pokies are ongoing.



Tigers fans might go for it, but I'm not so sure about fans of other clubs, especially non-Sydney clubs. Perhaps if it is for just a single season, or if you only get Sydney teams to play at Parramatta for 3 years or so. It's going to mess with membership arrangements of clubs and their ability to sell them.

Not really, most clubs are already taking one or two games on the road for financial reasons.

Re sharks, it shouldnt run out as long as they don’t dip into the capital investment. It should be giving them around $700k-$1.2mill,depending on investment performance, annual return forever to spend on the footy side of things.