Todd Greenberg has pretty much said one Sydney team will be relocated.

[TheFrog]

The story Kent “broke” on nrl360
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...e/news-story/5496817855eab310fa6973d8c8941adb

This has got a bit of the old ARL loyalty agreements about it, found in court to be unlawful. What happens to clubs that don't sign the agreement?

 

[Miller was a legend]

This has got a bit of the old ARL loyalty agreements about it, found in court to be unlawful. What happens to clubs that don't sign the agreement?

Bye bye

 

[TheFrog]

Bye bye

That would mean signing under duress, which was found to be unlawful previously.

 

[Miller was a legend]

That would mean signing under duress, which was found to be unlawful previously.

Bunch of flaming sooks

 

[Perth Red]

Agree PR.

If Perth can be brought in with B2 and the extra game generate additional $50m as an example, then the NRL can fund them.

As everyone has raised, is there sufficient talent across the game for two more teams? I personally believe that it will take time but we can develop extra clubs and players

Yeh i think the talent thing is a bit of a furphy. There are only so many 1st grade nrl places available and so talent will always be spread by how many places there are. No one has ever been able to explain any sort of formula or non subjective measurement for this argument. Ie you need X amount of Jnrs playing the game for X amount of talent in nrl 1st grade.

In my opinion it is more to do with elite development pathways and opportunity.

If it genuinely is an issue than the nrl needs to get off its backside, stop cutting nzrl funding, start pumping some serious money into png pathways and better support grassroots and jnr development across the whole country. Worse case outcome is everyone benefits from better talent pool!

 

[Perth Red]

Re licenses, it is unclear what the outcome of the 2017 stalemate was. I can’t find any news article on what agreement was signed. Nrl wanted perpetual licenses to lock in clubs and avert any threat of breakaways, clubs saw it is as their major bargaining chip and refused to agree. Not sure what outcome was, if they signed a short term agreement, 5 year agreement or nrl got its way? Either way unless these clauses were built in at time of signing I can see no reason the clubs would be willing to backtrack and aggree to them now. It’s hardly in their best interests.

Renthe penns, depends if they’ve had enough spending their money or not. They seem happy to run manly on a minimum expenditure and chip in to cover losses. Last year would have hurt them with a sub 9k crowd, though the $5mill grant increase would have covered it probably. Their leagues club is struggling, lost $400k last year and had to sell some of its pokie machine licenses to cover cash flow problems, it isnt in any position to be bankrolling the nrl club and didn’t put in any money last year.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...75/1551682704317/2018+MWRLC+Annual+Report.pdf

 

[Perth Red]

Re anyone mentioning bulldogs for relocation, not a chance.they are one of the wealthiest clubs in nrl.
2018 results (nrl and leagues clubs combined)

Revenue
$110million
Profit
$5.1million
Assets
$246million

https://www.bulldogs.com.au/siteassets/documents/2018-annual-report_vfinal.pdf

 

[adamkungl]

The NRL won't have the balls to force someone to move. It's a nasty, divisive move that will cause rifts in a game that needs unity moving forward. We don't need another 1997-2002 period.

HOWEVER if someone comes cap in hand to the NRL, or the NRL is forced to intervene in a clubs finances, the NRL will take that chance.

Assuming all clubs are stable in the next 18-24 months, I think they'll finally bite the bullet and go to 18 in 2023.
Those 2 new teams will be Perth and Brisbane 2, you'd have to think. You could definitely make a case for other places but no one in those places is knocking hard on the door.

Next step will be to shake the tree a bit and see who falls out.
Raise the salary cap but do not raise the club grant by the same amount. No more setting the rules to the lowest common denominator.
Clubs need to be pushed to show their worth, without being specifically targeted by the dreaded "criteria".
With this + the new stadiums in Sydney, weak links will fall behind.
That club or clubs will be forced to consider a voluntary relocation, or they'll face failure and the NRL dealing with them as they see fit.
Adelaide, Gosford, and Wellington will be on standby.
If the NRL "saves" a club by moving them and retaining their colours, mascot and history, and removing the people responsible for the failure, most people will view this as good business rather than divisive attacks.

The end result is by 2030 we likely have a comp with 18 teams, including Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane 2, and 1 more new region. I'd expect 7 full sydney teams, with 1 full relocation and maybe another or a split-relocation up the Central Coast.

 

[TheFrog]

HOWEVER if someone comes cap in hand to the NRL, or the NRL is forced to intervene in a clubs finances, the NRL will take that chance.

This takes control away from the NRL, as they have to wait for clubs to come to them cap in hand, by which time their situation is likely to be dire. When starting a new franchise, you need two years lead in at least, which means the NRL are keeping a shot duck club afloat for that long in order to meet commitments. Then you get players from the dying club wanting out during the shot duck period and the impossibility of replacing them. Hardly ideal.

 

[TheFrog]

Re anyone mentioning bulldogs for relocation, not a chance.they are one of the wealthiest clubs in nrl.

Dogs and Eels are safe as houses, on account of their supporter base. Note they are the FTA Sunday match this week, despite being two of the rank outsiders. This is because Nine can be assured of ratings when they are on.

 

[adamkungl]

This takes control away from the NRL, as they have to wait for clubs to come to them cap in hand, by which time their situation is likely to be dire. When starting a new franchise, you need two years lead in at least, which means the NRL are keeping a shot duck club afloat for that long in order to meet commitments. Then you get players from the dying club wanting out during the shot duck period and the impossibility of replacing them. Hardly ideal.

A relocation isn't a new franchise. A relocated club will hold onto a good chunk of its roster and staff, roster is the biggest hurdle a brand new club has.

If a club went bust during the season this year,
the NRL would
Take control of the licence.
Ensure the players and coach are paid to complete the season.
Install a puppet administration with the #1 goal of getting staff and offices set up in the new city by September.
Try to keep the current roster together as much as reasonable.
Appoint a board and recruit new administration to lead the rebuilt club from next year.

Melbourne Storm was created in a fairly similar fashion in just a few months from the remains of Perth and Hunter clubs.

 

[Perth Red]

Just doing some exploring of clubs revenue. What’s clear is that majority of Sydney’s nrl clubs still have profitable leagues clubs making up their football revenue short falls. Barring people,finallynrealising feeding pokie machines is not a good use of their money it is highly unlikely any club with a profitable leagues club is going to be going cap in hand to nrl.

The clubs without big leagues club propping up are
Manly
St’s
Roosters
Sharks

Sharks have their return on $18mill to help out.
Roosters have large income from property portfolio
St’s are now jointly owned by WIN who presumably could cover losses

That leaves smanly as possible future candidate from a purely financial point of view,

 

[adamkungl]

Just doing some exploring of clubs revenue. What’s clear is that majority of Sydney’s nrl clubs still have profitable leagues clubs making up their football revenue short falls. Barring people,finallynrealising feeding pokie machines is not a good use of their money it is highly unlikely any club with a profitable leagues club is going to be going cap in hand to nrl.

The clubs without big leagues club propping up are
Manly
St’s
Roosters
Sharks

Sharks have their return on $18mill to help out.
Roosters have large income from property portfolio
St’s are now jointly owned by WIN who presumably could cover losses

That leaves smanly as possible future candidate from a purely financial point of view,

Without trying to deliberately pick on them, I think Manly would find life better at Gosford than Brookvale.
I just don't see where the money comes to keep Brookvale up to a professional standard compared to places like new Parra.

 

[taipan]

Probably? Lol whose speculating now.
Not privy to the corporate interest but have heard numerous times over the years that sponsorship won’t be an issue. Fan base? well we’ve seen some great turn outs for oneRL one offs so we know the fans are there. It will be up to the new club to turn those fans into pirates, or whatever name ends up being,regular attending fans and members.
Travel? I’d estimate it will cost nrl about $250-300k a year. Big sports like netball, baseball, water polo, second tier union, ice hockey etc etc manages it so I’m sure the nrl will be ok lol

Reality is until the nrl set a commitment to expansion and either invite bids or work with preferred locations its all speculation.

You're the one who stated you had the backing of big companies.I wouldn't have responded, if you hadn't been so straightforward..
With the junior base and more even handed people in Perth than Melbourne,one would be disappointed if the Pirates didn't average 18,000.

 

[Walter sobchak]

New York will be joining soon after taking Over Hemel Hempstead license this week.

Don’t won’t to derail the thread about the U.K. to much but it was Eric Perez or the people he represents who bought Hemel stags licence and that’s Ottawa.

I don’t personally think New York will be happening.

 

[taipan]

Well tv paid $52mill a year extra for the in demand suns and giants so you be the judge lol

Not to mention that’s not how it works, the ninth game will feature a variety of clubs over the course of the season. The different time slot Perth offers plus opening up Australia’s 4th biggest city (and possibly to be third in years to come) to sponsors etc is where the nrl see the value. Brisbane 2 is a no brainer. Games featuring a Q’land v nsw team rate best generally.

I have no opposition on 18 teams, much prefer it TBH.But when you expand anywhere you want to be sure it is financially sustainable, with the sponsors/fans/juniors and members.

And how much has the AFL outlaid to date for both, and the Suns remain a basket case,and GWS doing a little better.
Gil from the AFL has admitted its costing as hell of a lot.And they have the loot.

$52m extra now ,could end up being a lot less than $52m in the next deal, as FTA Tv is taking a pounding.Plus if the pundits that suggest a 50% reduction in emissions, will mean an extra 336,000 out of the workforce, good luck with a stuffed economy.

 

[Perth Red]

You're the one who stated you had the backing of big companies.I wouldn't have responded, if you hadn't been so straightforward..
With the junior base and more even handed people in Perth than Melbourne,one would be disappointed if the Pirates didn't average 18,000.

Now you’re being disingenuous. I never stated anything of the sort. I said Perth is home to some very big, very rich companies. Which it is. If they are interested in supporting an nrl club and getting national exposure through the most watched sport on tv I couldn’t say. Others connected to various Perth bids have said they are.

I agree. I’d be hoping for 18-20,000 members and around 16-18k avg crowd in first couple of years. Stadium is a bit of a limiter with its 21k capacity but a few sell outs coupled with a few low crowds against some less popular clubs or rain effected games would see us around that level.

An 18k avg would see us being the third best attended club in the nrl based on last years atteemdnces which would be a very impressive result. Even 16k would be the fourth best!

 

[adamkungl]

Can't expand to Perth coz damn renewable energy greenies, thats a new one...

 

[taipan]

Now you’re being disingenuous. I never stated anything of the sort. I said Perth is home to some very big, very rich companies. Which it is. If they are interested in supporting an nrl club and getting national exposure through the most watched sport on tv I couldn’t say. Others connected to various Perth bids have said they are.

I agree. I’d be hoping for 18-20,000 members and around 16-18k avg crowd in first couple of years. Stadium is a bit of a limiter with its 21k capacity but a few sell outs coupled with a few low crowds against some less popular clubs or rain effected games would see us around that level.

An 18k avg would see us being the third best attended club in the nrl based on last years atteemdnces which would be a very impressive result. Even 16k would be the fourth best!

Your post yesterday 20th March 2019 A.D. 7.31pm.

"Some very big and rich companies."

In my book very big and rich companies are not the local Gloria Jeans franchise, but the RIOs etc.

 

[Perth Red]

I have no opposition on 18 teams, much prefer it TBH.But when you expand anywhere you want to be sure it is financially sustainable, with the sponsors/fans/juniors and members.

And how much has the AFL outlaid to date for both, and the Suns remain a basket case,and GWS doing a little better.
Gil from the AFL has admitted its costing as hell of a lot.And they have the loot.

$52m extra now ,could end up being a lot less than $52m in the next deal, as FTA Tv is taking a pounding.Plus if the pundits that suggest a 50% reduction in emissions, will mean an extra 336,000 out of the workforce, good luck with a stuffed economy.

Haha yeh it’s not like industry to peddle apocolyptic stories to try and get out of paying more taxes or having to increase costs to help out the workforce or environment lol.

You have no idea what next tv deal will be, no one does. There has never been a lower tv deal than the previous one. There is no evidence to suggest the next one will be any different. Fox’s and. Inez revenues are up.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/video-subscribers-boost-news-corp-coffers
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/nine-profit-jumps-as-ad-revenues-return


They are spending around $45mill a year on suns and gws, and allegedly reaping. $52million form the extra content they offer. Expansion to 18 teams will cost around $30-35million a year depending on next club grant deal. That’s the extra revenuetarget the nrl needs to aim for the ninth game to me it a cost neutral exercise.

It’s clear from Greenberg’s statement that they know they can’t grow significantly with the current 16 club footprint and reach they have and need to address that, one way or another.