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Tottenham Hotspur: "To Dare Is To Do" II

Mong

Post Whore
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55,692
Hahaha

That "shit" West Ham team did what Chelsea could not Jimmy..

And without a 50 million pound striker in the team as well..
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
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153,937
62% posession and 14 shots to 5 on goal, one simply should not lose 3 nil from there

alot of people blaming the trip to Russia on Friday but I dont see it, only half those guys played on Friday
 

StGeorgeBull

Juniors
Messages
452
62% posession and 14 shots to 5 on goal, one simply should not lose 3 nil from there

alot of people blaming the trip to Russia on Friday but I dont see it, only half those guys played on Friday
The official PL website has Tottenham with 4 shots on goal. 10 total.
 

Mong

Post Whore
Messages
55,692
Twiz may have seen spurs shots on goal and used that compared to west ham's on target shots at goal?
 

Jack_Napier

Moderator
Staff member
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3,622
Loris wasn't his usual World Class standard for you blokes. He's been a freaking boss all year so far. Dawson had concrete boots on for the Morrison goal.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
Pretty simple

AVB is a myth

Losing to shit teams like West Ham should be unacceptable under any circumstances, but 0-3 at home is a serious problem

:lol: You Chelsea fans are laughable with your AVB agenda, even though he has proven time and again that he is far more capable with a weaker roster than Harry was.

Loris wasn't his usual World Class standard for you blokes. He's been a freaking boss all year so far. Dawson had concrete boots on for the Morrison goal.

Lloris played on Friday in Russia, and also played in our previous EPL game. It wasn't really his fault.

Ok, so here's a bit of a review for those who are wondering just why this happened.

First up, AVB made three colossal mistakes - these happen, but making all three in the same week is pretty bad.

1) Starting Lloris three times in a week - Lloris is probably the best goalkeeper in the EPL, few would debate that, but he isn't Superman. He's a sweeper keeper who has saved us countless times since he joined us due to his quick reactions and running off the line. So what is one of the worst things you can do? Start him three times in the same week, including a trip to Russia. If you watched him today, he wasn't getting off his line nearly as much or as quickly as he usually does, which may have saved us for the second and third goals. Why Friedel didn't play mid-week I'll never know.

2) Not starting Lamela - Ok, AVB has a mostly good streak going with blooding players, as we have seen with Lloris, Townsend, Eriksen, etc. But this is one where he really dropped the ball. Lamela has had quite a bit of game time off the bench, even though he isn't really an impact player. Fair enough, AVB is trying to gradually get him into the EPL - though I was under the impression Serie A is also renowned for its physicality, I may be wrong. Anyway, today was the perfect game to start him, bar none. Playing at home against a team running (at the time) 18th, with Lamela having had about four or five caps off the bench. This was THE game to start him. He is not the kind of player to make a big impact off the bench.

3) Starting Defoe - I saw the team list and shook my head. As I and Helmet Man pointed out, Soldado has been so pivotal to our overall team play by bringing our wingers and Eriksen into the game that his lack of goals really isn't a major issue. Starting Defoe, in that sense, was utter lunacy, as this game proved. Defoe is an impact sub to maybe get a goal late in the game against tired defenders; he's a good player, but in our team, Soldado just offers so much more. Our midfielders really struggled to get going as did our wingers, something having Soldado would have affected a lot.

Now that's out of the way, aside from the first 5 minutes of the second half, the players just dropped off completely and didn't seem to really be putting in the legs at all. Dawson really cuts the line between good and bad. I am getting sick of the two Kyles, as good as one of them can be. Why we let Assou-Ekotto go without signing the replacement immediately is a huge mystery to me. Paulinho moving forward did lead to our best display in possession, but it also let West Ham bulldoze their way past Dembele.

A really poor performance all around. West Ham were pretty good, but that is no excuse for losing - and by three goals to nil - at home against a team running close to last. Hopefully everyone uses the international break to have a good look at themselves. This loss was coming, hopefully now we stop being complacent.
 

Mong

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Messages
55,692
:lol: You Chelsea fans are laughable with your AVB agenda, even though he has proven time and again that he is far more capable with a weaker roster than Harry was.



Lloris played on Friday in Russia, and also played in our previous EPL game. It wasn't really his fault.

Ok, so here's a bit of a review for those who are wondering just why this happened.

First up, AVB made three colossal mistakes - these happen, but making all three in the same week is pretty bad.

1) Starting Lloris three times in a week - Lloris is probably the best goalkeeper in the EPL, few would debate that, but he isn't Superman. He's a sweeper keeper who has saved us countless times since he joined us due to his quick reactions and running off the line. So what is one of the worst things you can do? Start him three times in the same week, including a trip to Russia. If you watched him today, he wasn't getting off his line nearly as much or as quickly as he usually does, which may have saved us for the second and third goals. Why Friedel didn't play mid-week I'll never know.

2) Not starting Lamela - Ok, AVB has a mostly good streak going with blooding players, as we have seen with Lloris, Townsend, Eriksen, etc. But this is one where he really dropped the ball. Lamela has had quite a bit of game time off the bench, even though he isn't really an impact player. Fair enough, AVB is trying to gradually get him into the EPL - though I was under the impression Serie A is also renowned for its physicality, I may be wrong. Anyway, today was the perfect game to start him, bar none. Playing at home against a team running (at the time) 18th, with Lamela having had about four or five caps off the bench. This was THE game to start him. He is not the kind of player to make a big impact off the bench.

3) Starting Defoe - I saw the team list and shook my head. As I and Helmet Man pointed out, Soldado has been so pivotal to our overall team play by bringing our wingers and Eriksen into the game that his lack of goals really isn't a major issue. Starting Defoe, in that sense, was utter lunacy, as this game proved. Defoe is an impact sub to maybe get a goal late in the game against tired defenders; he's a good player, but in our team, Soldado just offers so much more. Our midfielders really struggled to get going as did our wingers, something having Soldado would have affected a lot.

Now that's out of the way, aside from the first 5 minutes of the second half, the players just dropped off completely and didn't seem to really be putting in the legs at all. Dawson really cuts the line between good and bad. I am getting sick of the two Kyles, as good as one of them can be. Why we let Assou-Ekotto go without signing the replacement immediately is a huge mystery to me. Paulinho moving forward did lead to our best display in possession, but it also let West Ham bulldoze their way past Dembele.

A really poor performance all around. West Ham were pretty good, but that is no excuse for losing - and by three goals to nil - at home against a team running close to last. Hopefully everyone uses the international break to have a good look at themselves. This loss was coming, hopefully now we stop being complacent.

Hammers 1-4-6-0 set up was interesting with on field rotation happening constantly.

The possession stat was no surprise however the big concern for you lot is that, asides from the first 5-10 minutes of the second half, they rarely looked threatening even with all that ball, hammers defence looked comfortable for the most part.

Your defenders, particularly the CB pair got caught out for speed a few times and Morrison easily got through, full credit to him though as he did it very well.

Anyway, I said earlier in the thread thanks for the 6 points from you guys this season, that's the first three in the bag :lol:
 

Tyrone Biggums

Juniors
Messages
630
Realistic Spurs fans (if there is such a thing) realized pretty quickly that with all the signings we were probably going to struggle quite a bit in the first half of the season, perhaps longer. Losing our main attacking threat from last season, still dealing with the loss of Modric and VDV, and bringing in a load of players in key positions.

Come on, you can't use the excuse of Modric and VDV. You've had 3 windows to sort that out and you brought like a thousand midfielders in the last window so i'd say that they've been adequately replaced, at least numbers wise.

Lamela is still being blooded - much like Lloris last season - we've got Rose/Naughton at left back, Dembele/Paulinho/Capoue/Sandro are all forming combinations, you've got Eriksen behind Soldado, who himself is in an entirely different league play-style wise to to Spain. Then you've got Townsend and Siggurdson as our starting wingers (until AVB starts to put Lamela in the 11). So many changes. I expected us to drop a lot of points, but we are playing a lot better than we were last season. The really great thing is that we've got Kaboul to come back, Sandro and Lennon still getting fit (though Townsend may have ousted him), Lamela to move into the 11, etc. The players are only going to get better with more game time together.

I could understand Lloris' slow start to the PL, he had Friedel in front of him who was still a decent player. I can't say i understand why he's doing the same with Lamela. Who's he got in front of him? Townsend and Sigurdson. Surely he couldn't do any worse than those two.

Along those lines, how come Chadli is starting games but Lamela isn't?


As far as Soldado goes, having actually watched every minute of him in a Spurs jersey in the EPL, you are completely wrong on him. 'Turd'? I know you are trolling a bit but even then, the guy is playing far better than people give him credit for. His positioning and strikes have been almost perfect, he has been so consistently good there that really there are only two reasons he hasn't been scoring goals, and only one of them is his fault. If you look at how we play, most of our shots are coming from our two wingers cutting in and taking the shot from either just outside or just inside the box. Even with Eriksen, we actually aren't feeding Soldado as much as we really should. Additionally, he's been very unlucky not to score at least another five goals to the two he has; times where has done everything right but been denied by fantastic goalkeeping or one of our own players messing up.

He's not banging them in, which is obviously an issue, but his overall play has been excellent and I'm sure the goals will come eventually when he gets a bit more luck and ball going his way. You only need to look at the goals he has helped set up to see that he is a far better overall player than either Defoe - who I will however say I am extremely glad we kept - and Adebayor.

Calling him a turd is obviously a bit far. No doubt you've watched him more than I have, i've only seen a few of your games.

But surely, at 28 years old and 26 million pounds you'd be expecting more from him than what he's shown. I think you're being generous by calling his overall play excellent. Maybe you're used to watching Defoe cracking shots from all angles as soon as he receives the ball so your expectations might be a bit skewed but if you were looking for a striker who could link up play you could've found 4 or 5 strikers in the PL alone who are decent at linking play.
 

Tyrone Biggums

Juniors
Messages
630
1) Starting Lloris three times in a week - Lloris is probably the best goalkeeper in the EPL, few would debate that, but he isn't Superman. He's a sweeper keeper who has saved us countless times since he joined us due to his quick reactions and running off the line. So what is one of the worst things you can do? Start him three times in the same week, including a trip to Russia. If you watched him today, he wasn't getting off his line nearly as much or as quickly as he usually does, which may have saved us for the second and third goals. Why Friedel didn't play mid-week I'll never know.

Come on bud, he's a keeper. Fatigue shouldn't be an excuse. He would do more running at training than he would do during a game.

I think it's a bit harsh on him anyway if he's getting some of the blame for your loss. He didn't really have a chance for any of the goals. Reid gets a free header for the first and then is allowed to tap it in before any of the defenders even bothered to react, he was unlucky with the rebound for the second and your defenders should take more of the blame for letting Morrison jog past them for the third.

2) Not starting Lamela - Ok, AVB has a mostly good streak going with blooding players, as we have seen with Lloris, Townsend, Eriksen, etc. But this is one where he really dropped the ball. Lamela has had quite a bit of game time off the bench, even though he isn't really an impact player. Fair enough, AVB is trying to gradually get him into the EPL - though I was under the impression Serie A is also renowned for its physicality, I may be wrong. Anyway, today was the perfect game to start him, bar none. Playing at home against a team running (at the time) 18th, with Lamela having had about four or five caps off the bench. This was THE game to start him. He is not the kind of player to make a big impact off the bench.

He definitely fckd up by not playing Lamela, I think he's not dealing with Lamela in the right way if I'm honest. I said earlier that while he was easing in Lloris he had a decent player in front of him, but Lamela only has to displace Townsend.

3) Starting Defoe - I saw the team list and shook my head. As I and Helmet Man pointed out, Soldado has been so pivotal to our overall team play by bringing our wingers and Eriksen into the game that his lack of goals really isn't a major issue. Starting Defoe, in that sense, was utter lunacy, as this game proved. Defoe is an impact sub to maybe get a goal late in the game against tired defenders; he's a good player, but in our team, Soldado just offers so much more. Our midfielders really struggled to get going as did our wingers, something having Soldado would have affected a lot.

I doubt it would've made much difference. As critical of Soldado as I've been your wingers and midfield aren't doing your strikers any favors. You've got Townsend who shoots as soon as he's within 30 metres (he leads the league in total shots) and Paulinho (who is 5th in terms of shots per game). Combined they've got 1 goal all season and on Sunday they had 8 of your 14 shots, with only 1 being on target.

Stats taken from whoscored


Now that's out of the way, aside from the first 5 minutes of the second half, the players just dropped off completely and didn't seem to really be putting in the legs at all. Dawson really cuts the line between good and bad. I am getting sick of the two Kyles, as good as one of them can be. Why we let Assou-Ekotto go without signing the replacement immediately is a huge mystery to me. Paulinho moving forward did lead to our best display in possession, but it also let West Ham bulldoze their way past Dembele.

Dawson's crap. Wasn't he close to being sold to QPR last season?

I don't understand the hype around Walker. He's pretty much Aaron Lennon played at FB.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
Really using 3 games in a week as an excuse for a goal keeper? Come on.

He was visibly tired mate, even on his "bad days" where he is actually having a bad game he still gets off his line quickly, this game he wasn't.

Come on, you can't use the excuse of Modric and VDV. You've had 3 windows to sort that out and you brought like a thousand midfielders in the last window so i'd say that they've been adequately replaced, at least numbers wise.

I could understand Lloris' slow start to the PL, he had Friedel in front of him who was still a decent player. I can't say i understand why he's doing the same with Lamela. Who's he got in front of him? Townsend and Sigurdson. Surely he couldn't do any worse than those two.

Along those lines, how come Chadli is starting games but Lamela isn't?

Calling him a turd is obviously a bit far. No doubt you've watched him more than I have, i've only seen a few of your games.

But surely, at 28 years old and 26 million pounds you'd be expecting more from him than what he's shown. I think you're being generous by calling his overall play excellent. Maybe you're used to watching Defoe cracking shots from all angles as soon as he receives the ball so your expectations might be a bit skewed but if you were looking for a striker who could link up play you could've found 4 or 5 strikers in the PL alone who are decent at linking play.

When you are a club like us that (until this season) can't really spend too much beyond its means, and misses out on players like Willian, losing Modric and VDV really hurt us keenly. You could see it last season as our attack stagnated, and even this season it isn't quite the same as it used to be. I have full confidence that the players will get there eventually, but it is going to take a while for them all to gel.

Spurs fans expected Lloris to start immediately last season, Friedel was playing well but as we've seen with Hugo, Friedel wasn't playing that well to really keep him out. AVB just doesn't seem to stick our marquee players out the front end, especially when they've come in late in the window. I agree with you that I understood somewhat with Lloris, and I can also kind of see it with Lamela.

Chadli isn't a 26 million pound risk? Probably has to do with Chadli joining us early on, Lamela only joined the squad in the last few days of the window. Could also be a fitness issue or something. In reality, no one really knows, but regardless, if AVB was waiting for a game that wasn't "risky" to start him, West Ham was the one to do it against.

Really mate, Soldado has been a major part of our attack, and it is pretty obvious to me that having him on the bench was a major part in our stagnated attack. If I genuinely thought he was playing badly, I'd call him out for it in a heartbeat. Really though, it isn't the case. His strikes and everything have been good, having watched all of his games though you notice that he has bad luck with goalkeepers making some fantastic saves or defenders getting into great positions to stop them. His positioning has been far better than our other strikers, just lacking luck more than anything else. It's why I'm confident he will start banging them in soon.

Come on bud, he's a keeper. Fatigue shouldn't be an excuse. He would do more running at training than he would do during a game.

I think it's a bit harsh on him anyway if he's getting some of the blame for your loss. He didn't really have a chance for any of the goals. Reid gets a free header for the first and then is allowed to tap it in before any of the defenders even bothered to react, he was unlucky with the rebound for the second and your defenders should take more of the blame for letting Morrison jog past them for the third.

He definitely fckd up by not playing Lamela, I think he's not dealing with Lamela in the right way if I'm honest. I said earlier that while he was easing in Lloris he had a decent player in front of him, but Lamela only has to displace Townsend.

I doubt it would've made much difference. As critical of Soldado as I've been your wingers and midfield aren't doing your strikers any favors. You've got Townsend who shoots as soon as he's within 30 metres (he leads the league in total shots) and Paulinho (who is 5th in terms of shots per game). Combined they've got 1 goal all season and on Sunday they had 8 of your 14 shots, with only 1 being on target.

Stats taken from whoscored

Dawson's crap. Wasn't he close to being sold to QPR last season?

I don't understand the hype around Walker. He's pretty much Aaron Lennon played at FB.

I dunno mate, I wouldn't think so either but I watched the game and I noticed that something was up. For one of the latter two goals at least (memory is foggy now) he usually would have pounced on it quick smart. And overall he just didn't look as active as he usually does. It may have just been jet-lag.

I'm not blaming him at all, I didn't think he was bad or anything, he just didn't do what we've come to expect from him. He's stopped so many goals this season by getting off of his line like a speeding bullet (and been lucky not to be fouled on about two occasions) and he just wasn't doing it against West Ham. I'm blaming AVB for playing him three times in the same week as whether or not it should affect him, it really seems like it did.

I agree completely, I could maybe understand the first few weeks with Lamela by not playing him, but really he should have been played before the Chelsea game. That he wasn't meant that surely he had to start against West Ham, but apparently AVB thought differently. Complacency maybe? No idea, regardless, it was a massive screw up.

That's a big problem with our attack that is still being worked out and what I mentioned earlier. Soldado isn't getting fed nearly enough, it is a big reason of why he hasn't scored more than two penalties. Townsend and Sigurrdson should really be cutting inwards - as they are doing - and actually crossing or passing it inside - which they aren't doing. It is perplexing to say the least. The two are so darn selfish on the ball, Townsend in particular. While Townsend does look flashy and usually beats his man, which is great and all, he almost always screws up either by passing backwards, taking a shot or losing it. He can get into the final third easily enough, but he can't do anything when he gets there. With Siggy it is understandable as he actually does have a good shot on him, his problem is that, again, he often takes quite a few wasteful choices.

I'm thinking we need both Lamela and Chadli out there, fitness providing, instead of Siggy and Townsend. Hell, Lennon would be a miracle worker here, at least he knows how to pass the damn ball. From what I've seen, our major problem is our two current starting wingers hogging the ball. Paulinho takes a few wasteful shots but he's generally been great so I'm not too hard on him. If we can get Siggy and Townsend back on the bench where they really should be, we can finally get wingers out there who don't collapse in hives at the thought of passing or crossing the ball. Then, with Soldado out there, we might actually start scoring goals with more regularity. I pray that AVB realizes this.

I generally agree on Dawson, he makes so many mistakes and he isn't as quick as he really should be for a high line. However, he has been playing mostly good this season so I'm easing up on him. Sunday was not one of his brightest days though, that is for sure.

It comes from his first season where he was smarting up as one of the top three right full backs in the league, and you can look it up, a lot of people were in agreement on that. He's just stagnated from there though, I think it is the first season success that has got into his head. Now he is the right back equivalent of Dawson which, ironically, means the two play together. It sure leads to some heart-pumping moments :( He will probably end up being a one season wonder but Spurs fans know he can do a lot better, and he usually does ok - aside from at least one colossal mistake each game - so I guess for now he is our best choice there.
 
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Tyrone Biggums

Juniors
Messages
630
It's got nothing to do with it you simpleton.

The question is why does Lamela need easing in but Chadli doesn't? Position is about as relevant as how they like their steak done.
 

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