Trent Merrin offered record deal by St George Illawarra as Dragons await decision on

[bottle]

[/B]


Thing is Bottle they have had the same amount of time as the other clubs to organise TPA'S but obviously our management didn't take it seriously enough and probably thought it would blow over.
It all come back to gross ineptitude in managing the club.

Blow over?
Jesus.
Blowing us out of the water is what it's doing.
I agree that our blokes seem incapable of harnessing it to any significant extent.
It is a massive concern.

 

[saints4me]

10 origin matches, including the last 6 straight, is enough to qualify as rep quality under any measure.


Again, we're able to bank on players like Thompson, Widdop with big money, why not Merrin? The some wastage would occur with them.



The Merrin situation, for me, encapsulates everything wrong with the club in one neat little package:
- the total absence of quality coaching
- the lack of resources to compete financially with our rivals, entirely due to poor management
- the utter facade that is our "organic growth" strategy

Decrying Merrin as "overrated" or "greedy" is all well and good, opinions will vary. But it also serves to gloss over those underlying issues which are undeniable

True. I remember reading the book "Never before Never again" in which (and I can't remember which player it was) walked into Frank Facer's office at contract time and was told by Facer what he was going to be paid. That player walked out without questioning him. It's from a position of power and sadly we no longer have it. The Bunnies, Roosters and possibly the Doggies now have it. I don't even think it's the brown paper bag situation any more. It's no longer necessary for the rich clubs.

 

[Cagey Mac]

True. I remember reading the book "Never before Never again" in which (and I can't remember which player it was) walked into Frank Facer's office at contract time and was told by Facer what he was going to be paid. That player walked out without questioning him. It's from a position of power and sadly we no longer have it. The Bunnies, Roosters and possibly the Doggies now have it. I don't even think it's the brown paper bag situation any more. It's no longer necessary for the rich clubs.

Ken Kearney?

 

[dragonreddy]

Blow over?
Jesus.
Blowing us out of the water is what it's doing.
I agree that our blokes seem incapable of harnessing it to any significant extent.
It is a massive concern.

Agree 100% ,it's not something that can be rectified quickly , and the issue could well get worse if there is little success in the coming season,and the club already owes one of it's biggest benefactors in Gordon a substantial amount , i would doubt he is interested in stumping up more cash for TPA's.

 

[BennyV]

10 origin matches, including the last 6 straight, is enough to qualify as rep quality under any measure.

Perhaps. Again, there are plenty of blokes who have played in rep matches, doesnt.mean they deserve monstrous money. IMO, Merrin hasnt really shone in those matches and I wouldnt class him in the top 1-2 tiers of middle forwards in the game.

Again, we're able to bank on players like Thompson, Widdop with big money, why not Merrin? The some wastage would occur with them.

Weve also done it with Dan Hunt, Kyle Stanley, Gerard Beale...what's your logic? Because weve made mistakes with others, we should do the same with Merrin? C'mon man...

The Merrin situation, for me, encapsulates everything wrong with the club in one neat little package:
- the total absence of quality coaching
- the lack of resources to compete financially with our rivals, entirely due to poor management
- the utter facade that is our "organic growth" strategy

Decrying Merrin as "overrated" or "greedy" is all well and good, opinions will vary. But it also serves to gloss over those underlying issues which are undeniable

IMO, the Merrin situation is the poor cousin of the Morris situation, which was much more blatant in outlining our major issues. The major difference is that weve made a more-than-competitive offer to Trent, which i would wager is bigger in terms of cap $$$ than any other club, and HE is the one who thinks he is worth more. I'm not for a second absolving the club of fault, but this one wont sting nearly as much.

 

[bottle]

True. I remember reading the book "Never before Never again" in which (and I can't remember which player it was) walked into Frank Facer's office at contract time and was told by Facer what he was going to be paid. That player walked out without questioning him. It's from a position of power and sadly we no longer have it. The Bunnies, Roosters and possibly the Doggies now have it. I don't even think it's the brown paper bag situation any more. It's no longer necessary for the rich clubs.

I don't think that sort of mentality is in play anymore.
The power that the clubs you cite have is financial rather than via reputation. Paper bags or TPAs it's the money that talks.
The players aren't as compliant anymore either. In a fully professional situation replete with mangers and player associations the clubs don't have the upper hand to the same extent. This is a full time livelihood for these guys. Players don't stay out of loyalty or the kudos of being with a given club anything like they might have once. Those days are gone.

 

[Fingerbang]

I remember John Dowling offering to play with the Dragons for free. Was told he wasn't allowed to.

 

[grouch]

Perhaps. Again, there are plenty of blokes who have played in rep matches, doesnt.mean they deserve monstrous money. IMO, Merrin hasnt really shone in those matches and I wouldnt class him in the top 1-2 tiers of middle forwards in the game.

Splitting hairs. He's rep quality as i said, and the money is only monstrous if you're a poor (and poorly manged) club like ours. Even $600k under the recently-risen salary cap is not a massive hit for your best forward.

Weve also done it with Dan Hunt, Kyle Stanley, Gerard Beale...what's your logic? Because weve made mistakes with others, we should do the same with Merrin? C'mon man...

And what's your logic? Because others have failed Merrin will too? The key advantage Merrin has over that list is that in addition to his potential, he also has runs on the board. He won our player of the year award in 2013. Hunt, Stanley, Beale and even Thompson had done nothing.

IMO, the Merrin situation is the poor cousin of the Morris situation, which was much more blatant in outlining our major issues. The major difference is that weve made a more-than-competitive offer to Trent, which i would wager is bigger in terms of cap $$$ than any other club, and HE is the one who thinks he is worth more. I'm not for a second absolving the club of fault, but this one wont sting nearly as much.

It's like a punch to the face following a kick to the balls. Obviously won't hurt as much, but we should still be protecting ourselves more carefully.

 

[jenninga]

First of all, lets not throw 'rep quality' around all willy-nilly...the bloke was picked in 1 test match as an 'up and comer' and hasnt returned, and has averages around 20mins/game in origin. If thats rep quality, lets throw $600k+ at Aaron Woods or Tony Williams...

He is certainly our top forward, but he is not being used right and based on the 3 year deal that just went to Mary (a graduate of the Steve Price 'Make-our-best-prop-dance' Academy), I'd say it would be at least 3 years before he hit any sort of potential under us. Thats $600k+ wasted when it could be used for 1-2 blokes who can get us moving in the right direction. We cant bank on the fact that Merrin will reach his potential under Mary, and frankly I cant see it happening.

The reason he is worth 'more' to another club is that, well, he isnt worth more. Not under the salary cap anyway. Roosters can pay him $400k of cap money and another $400k in dodgey TPA. So whats his value? Is it $800k because thats what we'd need to pay, or $400k because thats what hes actually worth to their team?

In conclusion, the reason i am not losing sleep over it is that there are far, far worse issues at the club that would make me lose sleep!

This is the point.We are stuck with Mary so if Trent isn't going to improve under him then better to recruit others who will.If rumours of the two not seeing eye to eye are true then we're better off letting Trent go if he's not going to play to his potential.

 

[jenninga]

I suggest the Winter concerto by Vivaldi. We have several miserable winters of discontent ahead of us :-({|=

Grouch,hand on heart ,do you really think we should offer Trent more than$600k a season to stay,especially after last seasons substandard form.

 

[grouch]

Grouch,hand on heart ,do you really think we should offer Trent more than$600k a season to stay,especially after last seasons substandard form.

When a season in which he was still our top offloader, and still averaged 130+ metres per game & 30 tackles a game is considered "substandard" by his own standards, then clearly yes. Yes we should.

 

[jenninga]

When a season in which he was still our top offloader, and still averaged 130+ metres per game & 30 tackles a game is considered "substandard" by his own standards, then clearly yes. Yes we should.

Respect your opinion,but wouldn't have been hard to be our best forward last season.

 

[BennyV]

Splitting hairs. He's rep quality as i said, and the money is only monstrous if you're a poor (and poorly manged) club like ours. Even $600k under the recently-risen salary cap is not a massive hit for your best forward.

Ergo, the money is monstrous. And $600k is quite a bit when we look at the big dollars we are (rightfully) investing in our spine. I agree that its mostly the fault of mismanagement (with Merrins heightened sense of self worth being a contributing factor) but it doesnt change the fact that we shouldnt be offerng him more thab $600k cap money.

And what's your logic? Because others have failed Merrin will too? The key advantage Merrin has over that list is that in addition to his potential, he also has runs on the board. He won our player of the year award in 2013. Hunt, Stanley, Beale and even Thompson had done nothing.

He has runs on the board, but looking at his career the most recent trajectory goes downwards. My logic isnt that he will fail, its that we shouldn't be banking a huge chunk of cap $$$ on him not failing. Learning from our mistake (like we should have done following Price's sacking)

It's like a punch to the face following a kick to the balls. Obviously won't hurt as much, but we should still be protecting ourselves more carefully.

Will just have to agree to disagree here mate. IMO there is more risk in offering Trent massive cap dollars than there is in letting him go elsewhere. Our offer was very reasonable, considering he is a junior and his standing in the team.
Agree with the underlying msg (e.g. the club is f**k, oust doust, etc) but just dont see the final result as something to cry over.

 

[possm]

Until the NRL address the flaws in the current 3rd party player sponsorship scheme, Dragons management should get off their bums and secure the necessary funds to retain players with a 3rd party sponsorship.

The Dragons should find a way to pay the market price for Merrin.; he is a Dragon's junior of above average talent.

 

[love my saints]

He's worth what the market will pay him. Other clubs obviously a) have the foresight to take a long term view of his huge talent, and b) have the savvy to offer more in third party deals.

We fail at both.

His market worth will vary. At the moment what we need is a big forward with mongrel who runs hard and bends the line. Merrin is not that player. Teams that have have those big mongrel forwards need a "merrin" type player more then we do at the moment.
Personally i believe he is worth $450-$500k max. If he really beloeves he is worth more then what we offered him, then all the best elsewhere trent.
Kyle Stanley played for samoa, that doesnt make him worth a major pay rise and a "rep player" contract.
Truth is Merrin has done nothing at SOO level, and nothing at club level to warrant the sort of money he thinks he is worth.
$600k a year could get us Kasiano AND packer, two players whos style is more of what we need at the moment then Merrins style.
honestly now grouch, would u prefer merrin, or both Kasiabo AND Packer?

 

[grouch]

His market worth will vary. At the moment what we need is a big forward with mongrel who runs hard and bends the line. Merrin is not that player. Teams that have have those big mongrel forwards need a "merrin" type player more then we do at the moment.
Personally i believe he is worth $450-$500k max. If he really beloeves he is worth more then what we offered him, then all the best elsewhere trent.
Kyle Stanley played for samoa, that doesnt make him worth a major pay rise and a "rep player" contract.
Truth is Merrin has done nothing at SOO level, and nothing at club level to warrant the sort of money he thinks he is worth.
$600k a year could get us Kasiano AND packer, two players whos style is more of what we need at the moment then Merrins style.
honestly now grouch, would u prefer merrin, or both Kasiabo AND Packer?

You're a master of self delusion. Hvae you seen Kasiano and Packer play lately? Merrin with a supposedly poor season was better value than the two of them and then some.

It's another case of deriding the leaving player and hyping the (apparent) incoming player

 

[love my saints]

You're a master of self delusion. Hvae you seen Kasiano and Packer play lately? Merrin with a supposedly poor season was better value than the two of them and then some.

It's another case of deriding the leaving player and hyping the (apparent) incoming player

Not deriding anyone. Simply stating facts.
If you honestly believe merrin is worth big coin then what can i say?
Any reason to be negative and take pot shot at our club.
Kasiano was injured for a large portion of 2014 and packer was in jail.
But both of them would offer double what merrin offers and wouls cost half his asking price.

 

[grouch]

Not deriding anyone. Simply stating facts.
If you honestly believe merrin is worth big coin then what can i say?
Any reason to be negative and take pot shot at our club.
Kasiano was injured for a large portion of 2014 and packer was in jail.
But both of them would offer double what merrin offers and wouls cost half his asking price.

lol facts. Your last point is pretty far from a fact. It's wishful thinking at it's most deluded.

 

[rainman44]

Not deriding anyone. Simply stating facts.
If you honestly believe merrin is worth big coin then what can i say?
Any reason to be negative and take pot shot at our club.
Kasiano was injured for a large portion of 2014 and packer was in jail.
But both of them would offer double what merrin offers and wouls cost half his asking price.

This

 

[TruSaint]

lol facts. Your last point is pretty far from a fact. It's wishful thinking at it's most deluded.

grouch,

Mate I was / am a fan of Trent's.

Its been apparent now for some time, there are underlying issues, of which I am not privy to.

However, using the old " method of elimination ", I believe that either a.) promises were made and not delivered by management. Wouldn't be the first time we have done this tbh. or b.) Trent's management and / or Trent, believe the figure quoted is undervalued.

Either way, there a real sense and smell of BMoz here. Don't you also sense that ?

If we agree on that, and the Club, rightly or wrongly cant afford him, we need to look at options and fast.

Its not the first time and i know it wont be the last.