What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

Status
Not open for further replies.

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
Trying to change them is just as insane as the American religious nutters with the "Pray the gay away" nonsense

You're confusing "change" with "rehabilitation".

It's no different than Alcoholics Anonymous - you can't change an alcoholic and convert them into a person who can control their temptaton; the moment a recovering alcoholic tastes alcohol, they're back on the wagon.

Rehabilitation focusses primarily on treatment to manage conditions.

And, as we both agree, not everyone can be rehabilitated.

But that is where the judicial system needs a revamp - start using psychological and psychiatric professionals a lot more; employ criminal behaviour ansltsts; etc.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
You'd weed out a lot of deviant behaviour if parents were more thoroughly policed. Not sure how you'd do it, but a lot of these issues start with abusive, indifferent, or unqualified parents.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,884
I understand your sentiment Elle, but cant agree, Upbringing & psychological make up may be the cause & that it sad, but you cant change the past. In cases where an offender was an abused child, I can sympathise with what happened to them as a child, but cant excuse the decisions they made as an adult. If they then go on to abuse 10 kids & 2 of those kids go the same road where do we end up? The cycle just repeats & multiplies. I know that is over simplifying things a bit, but dead merkins dont reoffend & create the next generation of sickos.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
You'd weed out a lot of deviant behaviour if parents were more thoroughly policed. Not sure how you'd do it, but a lot of these issues start with abusive, indifferent, or unqualified parents.

That's an excellent point.

I often kind around that parents should get a parenting licence before becoming a mum or dad, but putting the onus back on parents isn't a bad thing IMO.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,884
You'd weed out a lot of deviant behaviour if parents were more thoroughly policed. Not sure how you'd do it, but a lot of these issues start with abusive, indifferent, or unqualified parents.

I have a solution to that problem. The world would be utopia in 60 years if it were adopted.

Mandatory sterilization at birth. When the child reaches 21 (or similar) they can apply to have the procedure reversed. They undergo a psychological evaluation & means test & if they pass, they get their working parts recommissioned. Macquarie Fields can be turned into a park by the end of the century, no more Souffs supporters & red neck hillbillies would be nothing more than a bedtime story to scare the kiddies.

The undesirables can still root their sisters etc, but they just cant reproduce.

Vote soc in the next election. Think of me as Hitler with a heart.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
I understand your sentiment Elle, but cant agree, Upbringing & psychological make up may be the cause & that it sad, but you cant change the past. In cases where an offender was an abused child, I can sympathise with what happened to them as a child, but cant excuse the decisions they made as an adult. If they then go on to abuse 10 kids & 2 of those kids go the same road where do we end up? The cycle just repeats & multiplies. I know that is over simplifying things a bit, but dead merkins dont reoffend & create the next generation of sickos.

I'm not excusing their behaviour as an adult - I want to make that clear.

But as someone with an intense interest in psychology, I truly, firmly believe that the mind is a very powerful force, and people who suffer trauma and/or abuse as children will grow up with different values, ethical codes and mentalities towards certain aspects of society.

And I struggle with the concept of punishing a criminal so finally and harshly, when the reason they grew up to be a violent criminaI is because the adults in their lives in a position of trust abused that position to torture someone they were meant to care for.

Personally, I find rapists disgusting - but if someone was raped as a child, then as disgusting as their actions in adulthood are, I think they're not to blame completely for what they do as adults, and that's where killing them is unjust IMO.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
I have a solution to that problem. The world would be utopia in 60 years if it were adopted.

Mandatory sterilization at birth. When the child reaches 21 (or similar) they can apply to have the procedure reversed. They undergo a psychological evaluation & means test & if they pass, they get their working parts recommissioned. Macquarie Fields can be turned into a park by the end of the century, no more Souffs supporters & red neck hillbillies would be nothing more than a bedtime story to scare the kiddies.

The undesirables can still root their sisters etc, but they just cant reproduce.

Vote soc in the next election. Think of me as Hitler with a heart.

:lol:

You're a visionary!
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,884
I'm not excusing their behaviour as an adult - I want to make that clear.

But as someone with an intense interest in psychology, I truly, firmly believe that the mind is a very powerful force, and people who suffer trauma and/or abuse as children will grow up with different values, ethical codes and mentalities towards certain aspects of society.

And I struggle with the concept of punishing a criminal so finally and harshly, when the reason they grew up to be a violent criminaI is because the adults in their lives in a position of trust abused that position to torture someone they were meant to care for.

Personally, I find rapists disgusting - but if someone was raped as a child, then as disgusting as their actions in adulthood are, I think they're not to blame completely for what they do as adults, and that's where killing them is unjust IMO.

The work needs to be done when they have become a victim. Not when they repeat the cycle of abuse. Once the repeat the abuse on someone else it's too late.

I know plenty of victims stay silent, so there is no way to get them early. Sadly there will never be a perfect system. My view is pretty simplistic, one innocent child>one damaged adult that couldn't control themselves.
 
Messages
17,035
You'd weed out a lot of deviant behaviour if parents were more thoroughly policed. Not sure how you'd do it, but a lot of these issues start with abusive, indifferent, or unqualified parents.

Pretty much. I see it everyday. You look at their filthy kids in their filthy house. The kids are unloved. You just know where they will eventually end up.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,884
:lol:

You're a visionary!

I know, right? :lol:

Think of the problems it would solve. The strain on natural resources would disappear. Overcrowded cities? gone. Crime? whats that? Wankers on reality tv? No longer exist.

We may need an army of droids to work at KFC and things like that though.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
The work needs to be done when they have become a victim. Not when they repeat the cycle of abuse. Once the repeat the abuse on someone else it's too late.

I know plenty of victims stay silent, so there is no way to get them early. Sadly there will never be a perfect system. My view is pretty simplistic, one innocent child>one damaged adult that couldn't control themselves.

But in the event of the death penalty being brought in, that child lives, but that adult gets killed.

There are documented cases of paedophiles who got married, had children and lived a normal life (without crime) because of two key thjngs: (1) they sought help with their condition [and recent science has strongly suggested heinous criminals are born with a recessive gene that gets activated through trauma and abuse], and (2) the people they confided in chose to offer help and support, instead of ridicule and disgust.

If a paedophile admits to being a paedophile, but hasn't touched a child (and wishes not to), then they need help, and they need not be hearing the brunt of people's abuse for something they cannot control (ie: their genes).

Parents need to take responsibility and treat their children properly, and to teach them the proper ethical and moral codes of society, and in such cases, someone who COULD turn out to be an offender down the track seeks help and lives a normal, crime-free life.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
I know, right? :lol:

Think of the problems it would solve. The strain on natural resources would disappear. Overcrowded cities? gone. Crime? whats that? Wankers on reality tv? No longer exist.

We may need an army of droids to work at KFC and things like that though.

You have my vote!
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
It's f**ked up, but I've made the exact same joking suggestions as both Eele (parenting licenses) and soc (mandatory sterilization until passing a test) before.

A great big steaming dump on individual freedom and basic human rights, but sure as hell would help weed out some of the utter derelicts squirting their beans into another derelict's waiting womb so she can grunt it out in between Rumbos and durries.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,884
If a paedophile admits to being a paedophile, but hasn't touched a child (and wishes not to), then they need help, and they need not be hearing the brunt of people's abuse for something they cannot control (ie: their genes).

This I agree with 100 percent. It is human nature to be repulsed by someone like that, for having those feelings. That is where as a human you need to take a breath and acknowledge the bravery it would take to admit something like that. They key though is that they have made a decision, as an adult not to act on impulses they know to be wrong. That is not criminal & someone that genuinely wants help to fit into society.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
It's f**ked up, but I've made the exact same joking suggestions as both Eele (parenting licenses) and soc (mandatory sterilization until passing a test) before.

A great big steaming dump on individual freedom and basic human rights, but sure as hell would help weed out some of the utter derelicts squirting their beans into another derelict's waiting womb so she can grunt it out in between Rumbos and durries.

Absolutely.
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,884
It's f**ked up, but I've made the exact same joking suggestions as both Eele (parenting licenses) and soc (mandatory sterilization until passing a test) before.

A great big steaming dump on individual freedom and basic human rights, but sure as hell would help weed out some of the utter derelicts squirting their beans into another derelict's waiting womb so she can grunt it out in between Rumbos and durries.

Who's joking?

The problem with it is there have been some quality people that have come good having started from those type of upbringings. Sadly, they seem to be in the minority.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,260
This I agree with 100 percent. It is human nature to be repulsed by someone like that, for having those feelings. That is where as a human you need to take a breath and acknowledge the bravery it would take to admit something like that. They key though is that they have made a decision, as an adult not to act on impulses they know to be wrong. That is not criminal & someone that genuinely wants help to fit into society.

Yep - I think it's human nature to be frightened by what we can't truly understand, and that's where the abuse stems from.

Unfortunately, people don't realise how much damage, "You've got paedophilic thoughts? You're sick!" can do.

It would be very difficult for someone with rapist/homicidal/paedophilic tendencies to come forward and admit they need help, and I believe that, before they act on their impulses, they should get the help they need without judgement and abuse. It would certainly help more people than by ignoring it and incarcerating people IMO.

But I totally get why parents would feel differently.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top