What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

Status
Not open for further replies.

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,971
whilst I can't support the death penalty, I look at the two leaders of the soon-to-be bali 7, and I look at it this way..

these two blokes have changed their lives, and helped change the lives of others (if reports are to be believed..)

would this have occurred had they not been faced with a sooner than to be expected mortality?

no-one can answer..

but in this instance, the death penalty has helped two men to lead a much better life than what they would have otherwise, and potentially helped more people..

so is it a bad thing?
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
Yep - I think it's human nature to be frightened by what we can't truly understand, and that's where the abuse stems from.

Unfortunately, people don't realise how much damage, "You've got paedophilic thoughts? You're sick!" can do.

It would be very difficult for someone with rapist/homicidal/paedophilic tendencies to come forward and admit they need help, and I believe that, before they act on their impulses, they should get the help they need without judgement and abuse. It would certainly help more people than by ignoring it and incarcerating people IMO.

But I totally get why parents would feel differently.

These days parents are so damn paranoid that the lynch mob would probably be out before they could get any help even if they did admit it.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
So f**king true about paranoid parents.

Can't even sit in a park reading any more. A kid walks into your field of vision and if you so much as glance up, concerned harridans who've watched too much TV swoop on you like a sex offender.

Never happened to me (I hate children, why would I want to look at them?) but my poor brother can't chill in the park without being judged.

Don't even get me started on the insane amount of pressure placed on teachers in that regard. My mother had been teaching for 35 years, yet in the last few it had become illegal to hug a crying child.
 

KeepingTheFaith

Referee
Messages
25,235
That's nothing. Try being a photographer for an event children can attend. Council organised event, media pass and access - Nope. Male with a camera equals instant stranger danger, and they let you know it.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,971
That's nothing. Try being a photographer for an event children can attend. Council organised event, media pass and access - Nope. Male with a camera equals instant stranger danger, and they let you know it.
and if you'd worn clothes that day, all of this could have been avoided..
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
I've been seeing a few issues cropping up in my news feed more and more lately, so thought I'd put them out there for civilised discussion.

1). What is your opinion on the controversy surrounding so-called 'free range children'? Are we over-parenting? Or do children need the level of care and attention that some are demanding?

2). The anti-vaccination movement has been picking up speed in spite of it being batshit insane. What do you think the government should do to address this? Is cutting payments enough?

3). Australia's drinking culture is under threat. You can't buy shots at bars. You can't get 'wet tickets'. Some say we need to lift the drinking age or charge more for alcohol since assholes in the Cross can't be trusted. What say you?

----

Go.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
Messages
103,424
I've been seeing a few issues cropping up in my news feed more and more lately, so thought I'd put them out there for civilised discussion.

1). What is your opinion on the controversy surrounding so-called 'free range children'? Are we over-parenting? Or do children need the level of care and attention that some are demanding?

2). The anti-vaccination movement has been picking up speed in spite of it being batshit insane. What do you think the government should do to address this? Is cutting payments enough?

3). Australia's drinking culture is under threat. You can't buy shots at bars. You can't get 'wet tickets'. Some say we need to lift the drinking age or charge more for alcohol since assholes in the Cross can't be trusted. What say you?

----

Go.

1) Yes, simply. Kids are coddled as shit.

2) Shoot them. I'm barely kidding. Vaccinations should be compulsory (medical exemptions aside) for all children, it's that simple. Not vaccinating should be categorised as neglect.

3) Charging more doesn't work. People get loaded before going out and cause more problems than if they get into a bar and chill out there most of the night. It's why Canberra has so much more violence now. That said, I think people need to change their attitude more than we need to change laws. I see more and more American college style drinking. When I took some American friends out they were all trying to get blackout drunk ASAP, whereas to us being unable to carry on past midnight was soft. Seems to me the drinking culture actually leans more toward the former now...
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,971
1. Free range parenting is too far. Helicopter parenting is too far the other way. Kids need love, freedom, but most importantly - boundaries. I have a theory that most of the stupid 'one punch' shit is stemmed from kids who were always allowed to do what they want, and were given a medal even when they came last.

2. People, vaccinate your kids, FFS. Do a google image search on polio. We've managed to avoid that for generations... But because you're hipster (and potentially a free range parent) you want to avoid giving your kid a needle.

3. Our drinking culture is under threat, because people don't drink to have a good time, they drink to get drunk. The sooner people understand the concept of measuring a good night by the laughs and conversation you had, rather than the amount of time you cant remember, the better things will be.

funilly enough, I've always had a mini muzby who sits on my shoulder when drinking at work functions. He keeps check and taps me on the shoulder before i make a bulldogs force of myself. He's now started joining me on social nights out, and I've woken up the next morning without that case of the guilts*



*a term my mate gave to that feeling where you wake up the morning after drinking and just feel like you need to apologise for your behavior.. Even if you know you did nothing wrong...

yep.. You know the feeling... Now you have a name for it..
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
1. Shouldn't be as controversial as it seems to be. We are over-parenting. The answer probably lies inbetween the extremes of totally free-range and helicopter-level anxiety.

2. The anti-vac movement is but a small ripple in a vast sea. Public opinion is against the inherent risks of kids not being vaccinated, and the government's moves to limit some forms of parental rebates and benefits is a strong signal. The rule changes should be effective from 1 July though, instead of 1 Janaury next year.

3. I don't think the culture is under threat. Two words: Bottle-o, backyard (or indoors at home, in weather like this). No need to lift drinking age or charge more for grog. If you're talking about going out and having a drink, that culture started to go backward from when random breath testing started in the mid-80s, followed by the introduction of RSA in the 90s (late 90s, I think?). Lockouts in the cross or CBD aren't a big deal - pubs in the city used to have to shut at 6pm, which in a way built our drinking culture in the first place...
 
Messages
23,967
1. Kids need more nature, less nurture

2. Anti-vaxxers are either horribly misinformed, or choosing to be dangerously ignorant. If a child is unvaccinated and contracts a disease that is preventable, I personally believe that is grounds for child abuse and should be punished accordingly (those with medical exemptions excluded).

3. My belief is the major reason we have such an issue with booze is that we tax it so heavily that we force people into cheaper, more alcoholic options. The "sin tax" moved people from beer or sprits to bulk package wine. The alco-pops tax moved people from RTD's to neat spirits. Inadvertently they have pushed people into higher alcohol, higher volume liquor options. Off premise liquor options need to be taxed less, while encouraging people to make responsible options (a six pack of Jim Beam + cola cans is better than an entire 700mL bottle of Jim Beam)

As for nights out, people point to the current CBD lock out as a success. Only issue is that all venues in the area are reporting a marked decrease in attendance, hence why violent crime is declining. People there are returning to their own suburbs and taking that violence back with them. The difference being now that they are spread across Sydney as opposed to focused in one area, the local violence rates look "okay" due to that spread.

Add to that the vast majority of our venues are geared towards bulk drinks like domestic draught beer where margins are higher than spirits or wine, and serves of beer are comfortably over 1 standard drink unlike wine or spirits. Once you see that, then you can start to understand why there can be an issue with alcohol.
 

afinalsin666

First Grade
Messages
8,163
I always figured that they should leave bars and pubs open 24/7. That way the violent chumps aren't all out on the street at the same time when every joint closes up shop. It'd be a staggered exit, without people going for broke when it's last call. Let them pass out from drinking too much and they won't be violent, will they?
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
19,868
1) Its all about balance. Kids should have the freedom to make choices, but be guided by intelligent parenting. If they make a bad choice, the parent needs to do their f**king job & be a parent. If the kid makes the right choices then they should be given a level of freedom.

Also kids need to learn that they aren't special. No more everyone gets a trophy or award. You want the trophy? Then earn it. You aren't good enough? Tough shit kiddo, life's a bitch. They should definitely feel loved though. That is the parents main job, love your kids unconditionally. Parents need to understand that love doesn't mean bronzing the kids first shit or giving them everything they want. Teach them about life, praise them when they are good & hug them when they fall short & encourage them to do better next time. If they are shit at something, gently steer them toward something that they have the aptitude for. Nothing is stupider than a slow fat kid getting a medal in athletics or the kid who cant count to potato getting an academic achievement award. It makes everyone warm & fuzzy at the time, but it is half the reason that there are so many self entitled f**k ups roaming the streets.

The other big problem re mollycoddling is the world is full of merkins. As a parent letting your child go to the park on their own for the first time is pretty harrowing. Not because the kid will do the wrong thing, just the worry of a guy in a Kombi with a bag of boiled lollies. There has to come a time when you have to deal with that & let go though.

2. I am pro vaccination for obvious reasons. But I have recently come to understand the viewpoint of the other side.

I recently reconnected via facebook with a childhood friend. We lived next door to each other from birth until she moved when we were about 14. We still went to the same school and socialised until we were 18 or 19. She was always an intelligent grounded sort of a chick & certainly not a hippy radical type. A month or so ago a post came up on my newsfeed from her that read a bit anti vaccination, it copped a few negative comments & then went full venomous. She was being called a monster etc & she just kept defending her right to a choice. I thought it was odd so I messaged her. Turns out she lost her son due to a reaction from a vaccination when he was 2. It would be pretty hard to take as a parent losing your child "for the greater good"

I still believe vaccination is the best choice, but some do have legit reasons for being against it. Most of the against crowd are just dumb hippies though.

3. Half the issue with the younguns getting on the piss relates to question 1. They get on the cans & something doesn't go their way they don't know how to handle it & get violent. There will always be the small minority that will cause trouble no matter what, but I think some of the idiots now wouldnt have been as bad if they were born 20 years earlier. Taxing, banning alcopops etc wont change a thing. People getting blasted as quickly as possible when they first start drinking is nothing new, most half smart people learn how to pace themselves within a reasonably short time. Even then its more about handling yourself when you are hammered, blind drunk is blind drunk whether it took 30 minutes to arrive there from sober or it took all night. It all goes back to question 1.
 

thorson1987

Coach
Messages
16,907
I've been seeing a few issues cropping up in my news feed more and more lately, so thought I'd put them out there for civilised discussion.

1). What is your opinion on the controversy surrounding so-called 'free range children'? Are we over-parenting? Or do children need the level of care and attention that some are demanding?

2). The anti-vaccination movement has been picking up speed in spite of it being batshit insane. What do you think the government should do to address this? Is cutting payments enough?

3). Australia's drinking culture is under threat. You can't buy shots at bars. You can't get 'wet tickets'. Some say we need to lift the drinking age or charge more for alcohol since assholes in the Cross can't be trusted. What say you?

----

Go.

1. Haven't heard any controversy about "free range" children. But the way I see it there needs to be a balance. No need to be a helicopter parent, but you also can't just let your kids run amok with no fear of punishment.

Also, I hate this whole bullshit about no winners or losers, all kids get a participation certificate and that should be enough. Kids need to learn how to cope with failure.

2. Anti-Vaxxers are a disgrace. And no matter how much the shit the believe is debunked, they will never change.

Short of forced vaccinations, there really isn't much more the government can do.

Alot of pre schools already refuse to take kids who are not up to date with their vaccinations, and I would love to see it extended to all public schools.

3. I don't believe it's under threat. But the nonsense that is the way shit is taxed needs to be addressed. Being able to buy a bottle of tequila cheaper than what it costs for a case or pre mixed is ridiculous.
 

MKEB...

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,988
1. Havent come across the term "free-range parenting" before. But when we were kids, our parents left us to our own devices within reason. We climbed trees and fell out of trees...we learnt. We swore at our parents, we got a good hiding and sent to bed...we learnt. We got a certificate for playing sport, if we played better the club gave us a trophy.

2. IMO no subsidised doctors visits if your child is not vaccinated.

3. Binge drinking culture could be nipped in the bud if doorman actually did refuse to let people in when pickled, or barman actually did refuse to serve well liquored punters. Preloading is one thing, young adults are preloading to the point of blitzkeig.
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,627
1). What is your opinion on the controversy surrounding so-called 'free range children'? Are we over-parenting? Or do children need the level of care and attention that some are demanding?

2). The anti-vaccination movement has been picking up speed in spite of it being batshit insane. What do you think the government should do to address this? Is cutting payments enough?

3). Australia's drinking culture is under threat. You can't buy shots at bars. You can't get 'wet tickets'. Some say we need to lift the drinking age or charge more for alcohol since assholes in the Cross can't be trusted. What say you?

1. When I grew up, I asked permission to go out for the day and then I did that. If Mum (never Dad, who couldn't care less) said I couldn't do it - I didn't. If she said I could, we'd go out and we'd play without having her hover 50 feet behind us with bandaids and snacks at the ready.

I climbed in old (inactive) railway cuttings, climbed trees, swam in creeks etc.

The parent's job is to prepare us and to manage our options, but I don't think it's neglect to let your child go out and be a child.

2. In my eyes, it's child abuse. You're wilfully exposing your child to the risk of being infected with and possibly killed by a curable illness. Parents who do this shouldn't be able to have kids.

3. I guess it effects me a lot at the moment because I find myself back at university and it's so much lamer than I remember it being. College functions in 2004 had wet tickets. We did shots at the bar when we had the cash.

Now it's all overpriced pre-mixes, and our college doesn't ever provide alcohol regardless of the event. It's f**king political correctness gone apeshit.

3) Charging more doesn't work. People get loaded before going out and cause more problems than if they get into a bar and chill out there most of the night. It's why Canberra has so much more violence now. That said, I think people need to change their attitude more than we need to change laws. I see more and more American college style drinking. When I took some American friends out they were all trying to get blackout drunk ASAP, whereas to us being unable to carry on past midnight was soft. Seems to me the drinking culture actually leans more toward the former now...

f**k me, Americans can't hold their booze at all. Running the Party Bus in Nanjing, half of my job was to wrestle drunk Americans off the bus and into a cab :lol:

There definitely does seem to be a worrying focus on getting smashed rather than getting to that nice point of drunk where you're just able to have a good time regardless of what's going on.

funilly enough, I've always had a mini muzby who sits on my shoulder when drinking at work functions. He keeps check and taps me on the shoulder before i make a bulldogs force of myself. He's now started joining me on social nights out, and I've woken up the next morning without that case of the guilts*



*a term my mate gave to that feeling where you wake up the morning after drinking and just feel like you need to apologise for your behavior.. Even if you know you did nothing wrong...

yep.. You know the feeling... Now you have a name for it..

The guilts! Like it. They're literally the only hangover symptom I ever get, and I get them whether I've had three drinks or twenty. Doesn't matter what I did or didn't do, I'm an anxious wreck the day after hitting the turps.

3. I don't think the culture is under threat. Two words: Bottle-o, backyard (or indoors at home, in weather like this). No need to lift drinking age or charge more for grog. If you're talking about going out and having a drink, that culture started to go backward from when random breath testing started in the mid-80s, followed by the introduction of RSA in the 90s (late 90s, I think?). Lockouts in the cross or CBD aren't a big deal - pubs in the city used to have to shut at 6pm, which in a way built our drinking culture in the first place...

Maybe it's the fact I'm a single guy, but I am not a big fan of backyard boozing with a bunch of people I already know. I love a good house party when there's the opportunity to meet new people, but very few things depress me like being at a party surrounded by people I already know and therefore cannot (or do not wish to) copulate with.

I always figured that they should leave bars and pubs open 24/7. That way the violent chumps aren't all out on the street at the same time when every joint closes up shop. It'd be a staggered exit, without people going for broke when it's last call. Let them pass out from drinking too much and they won't be violent, will they?

It's our culture that is the problem. Not alcohol availability.

Booze is dirt cheap and available virtually everywhere in China. There aren't lockouts. There's no minimum age or RSA.

You don't see a lot of drunk violence there. I can count maybe 2-3 times I saw it while I was in China, and it always involved foreigners and locals clashing.

1) Its all about balance. Kids should have the freedom to make choices, but be guided by intelligent parenting. If they make a bad choice, the parent needs to do their f**king job & be a parent. If the kid makes the right choices then they should be given a level of freedom.

You've summed this up so much more eloquently than I did in my first post :lol:

Also kids need to learn that they aren't special. No more everyone gets a trophy or award. You want the trophy? Then earn it. You aren't good enough? Tough shit kiddo, life's a bitch. They should definitely feel loved though. That is the parents main job, love your kids unconditionally. Parents need to understand that love doesn't mean bronzing the kids first shit or giving them everything they want. Teach them about life, praise them when they are good & hug them when they fall short & encourage them to do better next time. If they are shit at something, gently steer them toward something that they have the aptitude for. Nothing is stupider than a slow fat kid getting a medal in athletics or the kid who cant count to potato getting an academic achievement award. It makes everyone warm & fuzzy at the time, but it is half the reason that there are so many self entitled f**k ups roaming the streets.

The other big problem re mollycoddling is the world is full of merkins. As a parent letting your child go to the park on their own for the first time is pretty harrowing. Not because the kid will do the wrong thing, just the worry of a guy in a Kombi with a bag of boiled lollies. There has to come a time when you have to deal with that & let go though.[/qupte]

This whole 'everybody can grow up to be a movie star/sports star/astronaut' line of reasoning has created a generation (mine included) of entitled, underskilled idiots.

The world needs cleaners and retail staff, but those doing it are largely unhappy because they were raised with a false idea of how the world works.

I say this as a person who is literally doing everything he can to not do said boring, menial work.

FFS, I flee the country rather than deal with it - so my own folks are guilty of it too. There's a line between belief in your child and failing to teach them the realities of the real world.

2. I am pro vaccination for obvious reasons. But I have recently come to understand the viewpoint of the other side.

I recently reconnected via facebook with a childhood friend. We lived next door to each other from birth until she moved when we were about 14. We still went to the same school and socialised until we were 18 or 19. She was always an intelligent grounded sort of a chick & certainly not a hippy radical type. A month or so ago a post came up on my newsfeed from her that read a bit anti vaccination, it copped a few negative comments & then went full venomous. She was being called a monster etc & she just kept defending her right to a choice. I thought it was odd so I messaged her. Turns out she lost her son due to a reaction from a vaccination when he was 2. It would be pretty hard to take as a parent losing your child "for the greater good"

I still believe vaccination is the best choice, but some do have legit reasons for being against it. Most of the against crowd are just dumb hippies though.

That's a shitty f**king situation. I certainly don't think every child should be subjected to them regardless of their medical issues. If the vaccination is going to do more harm than good, that's the only time I'm okay with not vaccinating a child.

Most of the anti-vaxxers I know wear tinfoil hats.

3. Binge drinking culture could be nipped in the bud if doorman actually did refuse to let people in when pickled, or barman actually did refuse to serve well liquored punters. Preloading is one thing, young adults are preloading to the point of blitzkeig.

I found it funny how much RSA training drilled into us this 'no service for drunk people' thing. On any given night at the Planto or the Greenie up here, I'll see a dozen or more people who should have been refused service and bounced hours ago. Myself often included.

It's all lip service.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Give nicer venues for drinking. Wollongong was a cesspool nightlife wise when i first turned 18. Pretty much all dingy clubs where alcohol consumption was encouraged to stuid points and a crowd of agressive f**kheads and dickhead bouncers to match.

In the last maybe 3-4 years there's has been a substantial increase in smaller bars which focus on good food and something different. On the weekend with some friends went to an American burger bar, a place that is bakery by day and bar by night, a whiskey bar where we got hamered and played jenga to the music of the sotnes/ramones/creedence and others. Great fun, really good food, nice, interesting beers etc. We were very drunk but it was nothing even remotely threatening anywhere we went. Then we went to the place open after midnight and it was a dive in comparrison. The more you see that sort of place is a dive the more inclined to the other places you are. It's helped reduce violence IMO as the bigger places have either disappeared or lessened their slice of the pie.

Antivaccination arguments in a way are a product of the expectations of a perfect society compared to the reality of society. eg Drew (sorry drew) in the other thread mentioning cityfail in regards to the weather - well f**k there the biggest storms in a long time (in wollongong the worst since 98 I reckon), and I got delayed about 20 minutes on the train. I'll take that. It's annoying but occasionally shit happens. Now people have occasionally had bad reactions to vaccinations (terrible case mentioned above). Nothing is fool proof though. The occasional bad reaction doesn't change the unbelievably, overwhelmingly positive effect vaccinations have had. Go to a cemetary pre-vaccinations and look at the graves of kids who die from things that just aren't an issue these days. Smallpox eradicated, Polio near eradicated.

it would be great if a test could be developed to see what the reaction of vaccination may be before administering it. For the most part though vaccinations are fantastic.

The autism argument (a condition that is one of the least understood around) is so thoroughly debunked it isn't funny.

Free range parenting? Never encountered the term (although I could guess roughly what it might mean). I have some legit concerns about the influx of technology on how kids develop, from a mindset point of view and a obesity point of view. I didn't even have a TV from about ages 6-9 years old and spent the first 10 years of my life just entertaining myself running around in the backyard, cricket, footy, all those things. I think it's certainly from a physical fitness perspective got me in very good habits, which I've maintained well into my 20's. Seeing parents just park their kids infront of an ipad at 2 years old is pretty poor, get them interested in other things. I would advocate pretty strict control of technology use for primary school aged children (particularly as, im sure, they'll increasingly be using technology inside school hours).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top