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Ultrathread I: Thread of the Year - 2014

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Twizzle

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one of these days im going to here about a tidal power plant being built in one of the 3 areas I picked in a feasibility study I spend 18 months doing back when I was an undergrad working for PB. I started off in the power team and worked on renewable energy projects. I know for a fact that taxes and building massive 500MW Plants of solar/wind out in the sticks wont make a difference. It is the hundreds of thousands of smaller efforts by individuals or businesses that as a collective will make a difference with the big projects thrown in on top.

Although solar is the most well known and for a good chunk of this country the most strongest and readily available source one thing that gets overlooked is what we as beasts create ourselves...shit. I had a hand in working out how much of the surrounding suburbs could be powered as well as the place itself soley on the amount of shit that is plonked out each animal in Taronga zoo. The results were pretty surprising. Many European zoos have taken this initiative as well as poultry farmers to a point that during transportation of cattle they are actually equipped with diapers to be emptied at the other end with the resulting energy supplied covering the fuel costs of the vehicle to carry them the several hundred miles.

Many other ideas that a feasible but sound crazy but the one thing I did notice is that all these awesome initiatives and ground breaking technology trials and projects are being done everywhere else in the world except here.

The biggest issue with solar/wind farms out in the sticks is the transmission losses in getting the power to where it is consumed. The losses can be significant, like 20%, that reduces their feasibility.

Having solar panels on each hose puts the power directly back into the grid where it is consumed and in the numbers in which it is generated, its been a good move for the govt as it saves them from building new power stations that pollute.
 

Misanthrope

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We don't understand the mechanism, the reason, the extent, what we can do about it. Public perception is largely still based on science that has proven to be either inaccurate or outright falsified. We discovered last year that warming thus far is negligible when it was expected to be obvious. I can't see why people hate on 'deniers" with religious fervour when we've really got no idea.

I'm not a so called denier myself though. I think of myself as someone who thinks we need to understand it much better than we do, and stop treating it like a religion. Based on evidence it's just as likely to be a natural change and that's the problem...all the evidence ever presented is circumstantial.

See, this is much clearer than the opinion you shared when you attacked BM for daring to express an opinion.

I think its hard to deny our pollution isn't doing something. What it is doing is the real debate.

In my mind I find the human species to be needlessly wasteful and environmentally destructive. The problem with my view is those who share my view do so in a religious way.

Exactly. We're not so important as to be able to destroy the planet with our stupidity, but you can't deny that we do have an impact. It's evident in the hole in the ozone layer, the extinctions we've caused, the destruction of forests and reefs, the dwindling quality of water, the dwindling quality of the air we breath etc.

I reckon it's just human arrogance at work again. We vastly overstate our importance. However, the world clearly is changing, so let's adapt to that shit, because we won't be able to affect it either way.

Is it overstating our importance to point out the sheer number of extinctions we've directly caused through both hunting and habitat loss? Or to highlight the growing levels of water pollution both in the ocean and our waterways?

We don't need to just sit back and adapt. We do need to make meaningful change. You're right - we won't destroy the planet, but it's not our planet. It's not okay for us to just continue as we're going, wipe out countless more species, and be all 'Oh, that's just nature at work'.

It clearly isn't.

It comes with the dominant thought processes - that is the focus on a neo-liberal market system that classes environmental concerns as externalities and only values resources for the money they can generate. It's taken to new levels with a government that seems to cherry pick what 'sustainable development' is to suit them - see the releases on coming into power from Greg Hunt which just focuses on the economic aspects, rather than the social and ecological components that make up sustainable development.

What annoys me most though is just how pissy the current government is regarding alternatives to coal. Coal and other fossil fuels won't disappear completely till they run out, but there are feasible, renewable options out there. Yet this current government is not just supportive of coal, it's actively discouraging these alternatives, through funding cuts to the CSIRO and attempts to dismantle the CEFC and other renewable energy targets. We're completely out of step with the rest of the world on this, given the efforts in both Europe and the States and even places like China trying to do something about their pollution.

Meanwhile, despite going on about ending subsidies to renewables and such, we have our Prime Minister banging on about how we have too much locked up forest in Tasmania. This after a deal was painstakingly struck between relevant stakeholders (forestry, environmentalists etc) that enabled a sustainable forestry industry, suddenly they want to just f**k that off. Yet this is a forestry industry that has been heavily subsidised, and whose issue is not that there is not enough forest to chop down, it's that there is not enough demand for their products because what people want in timber - ethically sourced, not old growth forest etc, has shifted.

This thought that we can just plow away without negative consequences is madness IMO.

Agreed 100%
 

t-ba

Post Whore
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59,968
I think it is difficult to argue that we're having a major impact on our environment with industrial activitiy. The Toba event, the largest volcanic eruption in human history, is believed to have caused 10 years of 'Volcanic winter' and 1000 years of 'Global cooling.' From what I can gather we're giving the particles thrown up by this explosion an excellent run for their money on an annual basis. To suggest that this wouldn't have an effect on Climate Change would be a little silly. Even a 'minor' event like the Tambora explosion of 1815 devastated global crops during the subsequent 'year without a summer.' I'm not sure of the actual impact on a 'climate change' perspective, but having lived on both the Yangtze river and the Pearl River delta in China I can tell you our Industrial activities are having a catastrophic impact on the environment that is probably going to poison us in the long run.

Change is probably inevitable however. And considering how terrible climate change could potentially be for us, we need to start pulling together to figure out what we can do to minimize our impact and deal with the changes as they come. Sea Levels are atleast 120 metres higher than they were since the last ice age. IIRC some 60% of humans live on the coasts, and an absolute truckload of the worlds arable land as well. What kind of plans has anyone made to deal with rises in sea level? Human driven Climate Change or no, this is something that needs to be considered

However, we can't expect developing nations to simply stop polluting because we have the 'wisdom' to know better. They have roughly ten million reasons not to trust white people telling them "Trust us, we know what's good for you" with the whole colonialism thing. Most of the developing world still has a narrative running through their societies about the humiliation of that whole era and a level of mistrust at the political level of 'White science.' I've met quite a few educated people in China, India and Southeast Asia who honestly believe that global warming is a plot by Western Nations to deny their nations living standards similar to ours. Good luck with beating that attitude.
 

Dragon2010

First Grade
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8,953
I reckon it's just human arrogance at work again. We vastly overstate our importance. However, the world clearly is changing, so let's adapt to that shit, because we won't be able to affect it either way.

This is pretty spot on. No doubt, humans are accelerating the process in some way, as we are throwing the environment out of shape. Not just by carbon emissions but by exploitation of resources, habitat destruction and so forth. Part of humanity thinks we are the apex predator, realistically, mother nature could wipe us all out - natural disaster have proven the catastrophic affects they can have.

I remember reading a scientific article a few backs, how through inductive (or deductive) reasoning, he calculated we are just about to start another mass extinction due to our arrogance.

I think its hard to deny our pollution isn't doing something. What it is doing is the real debate.

In my mind I find the human species to be needlessly wasteful and environmentally destructive. The problem with my view is those who share my view do so in a religious way.

The problem is this.

Okay, let's cut down these 10,000 trees, build houses, destroy habitats, contribute to landfill, dump out sewerage over there. It will be fine, we don't need to give anything back kind of mentality.

It doesn't work that way. It's time we start being more environmentally conscious to the way the earth is changing, but also the way we are poisoning it.

We are Drew, but we are working our way out of that, slowly.

The problem that everyone overlooks while driving Priuses and using bio degradeable cups is that the world is on different playing fields. We had our industrial revolution, but plenty of lesser countries are still going through theirs. Now we are enlightened to the fact that we f**ked up, but nothing will change unless we stop these second world countries from going through their revolutions. That is just not going to happen.

But, if the major developed countries who are still the majority of said damage are more conscious, more aware - we can start now, for the better, for future generations.

It's all about "Building a better future" (South park style).

Solar is definitely better than wind. But We should concentrate on Nuclear energy. The Greens can go and get f**ked.

Agree, nuclear certainly has some brilliant benefits and is rather clean.

I like to deliberately annoy Canadians by asking them which state they are from.

:lol: Seems like something you'd do.

This thought that we can just plow away without negative consequences is madness IMO.

^This

More importantly, just went to the bathroom without my phone, most boring 5 minutes ever!

Rookie mistake, pleb.

The biggest issue with solar/wind farms out in the sticks is the transmission losses in getting the power to where it is consumed. The losses can be significant, like 20%, that reduces their feasibility.

Having solar panels on each hose puts the power directly back into the grid where it is consumed and in the numbers in which it is generated, its been a good move for the govt as it saves them from building new power stations that pollute.

^This.
 

Misanthrope

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47,627
So surely by now you know every ingredient in air freshener

I'm stunned that more of you don't keep reading material on hand in your bathrooms.

My grandmother had a good collection of Reader's Digests, and my father keeps all manner of China travel guides and true crime novels in the can.
 

thorson1987

Coach
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16,907
Also, f**k you ticketek.

Can't get tickets for where I want to sit on Monday night for some reason.

Had the same problem last year when I went there. Couldn't get them online, but had no problem getting them at the gate.

It's not as though it's going to be sold out.
 

Skinner

Coach
Messages
13,581
Also, f**k you ticketek.

Can't get tickets for where I want to sit on Monday night for some reason.

Had the same problem last year when I went there. Couldn't get them online, but had no problem getting them at the gate.

It's not as though it's going to be sold out.

Ticketek and I fell out some years ago. I probably would not have been so bothered, but I was buying the tickets for a friend. They (Ticketek) lost the tickets. They eventually turned up in Darwin, but they made me go through hoops to get replacements in the mean time. Just so's you know it wasn't me, they were Dolly Parton tickets :eek:
 

thorson1987

Coach
Messages
16,907
Ticketek and I fell out some years ago. I probably would not have been so bothered, but I was buying the tickets for a friend. They (Ticketek) lost the tickets. They eventually turned up in Darwin, but they made me go through hoops to get replacements in the mean time. Just so's you know it wasn't me, they were Dolly Parton tickets :eek:

hahahaha.

The biggest rort of buying tickets online, being charged nearly $6 for them to email the tickets to you and you print them off.
 

afinalsin666

First Grade
Messages
8,163
It's a convenience fee thorson. For the, uh, convenience. You surely wouldn't begrudge poor ticketek out of feeding their kids would you?
 

Dani

Immortal
Messages
33,719
Student tickets flash a different colour on the inside of the gate. Be careful. I've seen lots of people picked up entering AAMI Park doing that.
 

Alba

Coach
Messages
13,367
Here's one to get conversation started:

If you had to be born in a culture other than your own, which would you most like to have been born in?

You can play it safe and pick another western, Anglo culture if you so desire.

I'd probably go with the USA. Such an interesting country, and when they celebrate things, they go all out. I loved Memorial Day weekend, weekends at the Jersey Shore, 4th of July, Thanksgiving etc. And their sport is massive, I'd love to have grown up with a passion for it. Tailgating games and concerts as well! I just love America. Unfortunately, I love Australia more, and couldn't stomach being away from it. It really is an awesome country, and I still have so much of it that I would like to see.
 

Misanthrope

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47,627
I'd probably go with the USA. Such an interesting country, and when they celebrate things, they go all out. I loved Memorial Day weekend, weekends at the Jersey Shore, 4th of July, Thanksgiving etc. And their sport is massive, I'd love to have grown up with a passion for it. Tailgating games and concerts as well! I just love America. Unfortunately, I love Australia more, and couldn't stomach being away from it. It really is an awesome country, and I still have so much of it that I would like to see.

I think the biggest part of why I travel (well, maybe the second part after not wanting to feel obliged to find a career and settle down) is that I don't feel that way about Australia.

I love and am proud of my country, and I certainly miss my friends and family, but I always feel so lost when I'm home for long. I don't fit there.

Over here I'm a teacher and a key part of the social fabric of whatever city I live in. I'm a sometime TV star and get stopped in the street for photos or halting conversation. I'm a model and a tutor and a vital commodity.

At home, I'm just another overweight guy with a degree in an increasingly shallow and predictable culture.

I'm never coming home. Not for good.
 
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