Unpopular Opinion

[Blair]

As discussed in other threads, we've been watching plenty of old League during the current Covid-19 situation.

Let me take the Manly v Newcastle game in '95 as a reference point. There wasn't a visible tattoo in sight! Sheesh, now look at 'em...

 

[Campion]

not just in rugby league with the tattoos. every dude (and dudette) in the gym is coated with them (except me). not my jam but i do not begrudge either (except when english dudes get maori tattoos, seems a bit of cultural appropriation). or when some baby face youngblood gets a tattoo and turns from cat to Jake the Muss because he think the tattoo made him instant hardman.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Just a fun place to post thoughts or ideas that go against the general consensus.

Feel free to post an unpopular opinion, or argue against one that's been posted.

Mine?
At the Warriors, on field, Reuban Wiki didn't offer anything above an average first grade prop would

Discuss!

You’ve pretty much stolen my one so let me elaborate on it- also, congrats on giving a genuinely unpopular opinion, proven by the fact you got ZERO likes for making an excellent point.

Whenever people pick an all-time Warriors team Price and Wiki go straight in as starting props. This is ridiculous. We have good depth at prop and Wiki shouldn’t even be on the shortlist.

In particular, putting Wiki over Matulino on the basis of their respective play for the Warriors (which surely is the point of the exercise) is completely ludicrous

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Really digging this thread, especially the stuff about NZ media. I’m over in Aus so don’t see/know as much about the content of the NZ media, and cause of that my unpopular opinion is more player based.

Probably a wildly unpopular opinion but I always thought that (given off field indiscretions aside of course) that Ivan really should’ve persisted with Faumuina as a 5/8, and that if they had done so he’d end up being the best 5/8 we ever had/produced. He always had the ball-playing ability and from the few games he played in the halves he had quite a good short kicking game too (from memory he set up the match winning try in the GF rematch in 03 with a grubber). Obviously it’s a massive if only but I always imagined what would’ve happened if we kept Ali for all of the 2000’s and had Sione at 6, and had them both on the left edge with Toopi and Meli, would’ve been unstoppable. Even read somewhere, in fact I think it was his book, that part of the reason he acted up and wanted out of the club was that Ivan had told him they wanted him at 6 and canned him from the position after he was suspended in round one. Whatever happened in the 04 off season really did cost the club a premiership imo, because if we could’ve kept them all in form it would’ve been something else

Here’s another good one. Faumuina ultimately caused his own downfall but he was under appreciated imo

In particular, I think it gets overlooked how outstanding he was in the 2005 season. This kinda ties in with the Wiki thing, as Wiki pretty inexplicably got player of the season that year while Faumuina got nothing, yet a lot of the time it was like he was simultaneously playing
the roles of stand off, off-loading backrower, workhorse, and hole-running centre in a side which sorely lacked creativity.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

And third and final (for now)

Sam Tomkins did not flop in the NRL. More importantly, he was not an inferior player to Kevin Locke.

Tomkins’ 2014 season was easily better than any season Locke ever had.

2015, he got injured and decided he wanted to leave. We then immediately got RTS so it’s not like the Tomkins signing hurt the club either

 

[Penrose Warrior]

And third and final (for now)

Sam Tomkins did not flop in the NRL. More importantly, he was not an inferior player to Kevin Locke.

Tomkins’ 2014 season was easily better than any season Locke ever had.

2015, he got injured and decided he wanted to leave. We then immediately got RTS so it’s not like the Tomkins signing hurt the club either

Definitely a unpopular decision in the fan base. Not with me, however. Tomkins was let down badly by a poorly coached and run team, and lack of support around him. And Locke was inconsistent because of the lack of professionalism in his preparation week to week. Yes his good games were memorable, but as you say his seasons were not - apart from 2011.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Hopefully I word this one correctly

1 of the reasons the Warriors haven’t had success for a long time, is that Mannering was consistently winning player of the year awards

Not a slight on him as a player, but if his type of workhorse role is the best year in year out, then the star players who need to be winning you games haven’t been doing their jobs

 

[Rich102]

What star players?

 

[Rich102]

This thread may be a good place for this:

Nathan Cleary lies to the NRL commission and gets two weeks suspension?
Should be gone for the season and a $50,000 fine.

 

[Cold Roses]

Hopefully I word this one correctly

1 of the reasons the Warriors haven’t had success for a long time, is that Mannering was consistently winning player of the year awards

Not a slight on him as a player, but if his type of workhorse role is the best year in year out, then the star players who need to be winning you games haven’t been doing their jobs

I had a quick look to confirm my suspicion, and Shaun Johnson never won player of the year for us. In fact Mannering and Matulino dominated it for 6 years straight. And prior to Roger joining the club, there hasn’t been a non forward, or any spine player featured for a very long time.

I think your assessment is spot on. It points to a lack of consistency from players in our key positions.

 

[Matua]

Not on here, but other forums, Facebook groups etc, if you say anything critical suddenly it's you're not a true fan, you're a hater etc.

This could be pretty unpopular although not directly related to the team, TBH, when I first joined this place I found that most fans were failingly uncritical of the Warriors even though they were totally tutae at the time.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Hopefully I word this one correctly

1 of the reasons the Warriors haven’t had success for a long time, is that Mannering was consistently winning player of the year awards

Not a slight on him as a player, but if his type of workhorse role is the best year in year out, then the star players who need to be winning you games haven’t been doing their jobs

I don’t entirely agree, because imo Mannering was underrated.

I mean, I don’t think anyone turned their noses up at the likes of Hindmarsh/Gallen/Cordner winning major awards? For mine, Mannering was underrated in the sense that he wasn’t
mentioned alongside those guys.

Also, you’ve opened up a bit of a can of worms in that while Johnson (and Maloney for that matter) didn’t win player of the year awards, a certain Stacey Jones didn’t win many either...make of that what you will.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

In fact Stacey never won player of the season in a full comp while guys like Mears and Death were winning awards...

 

[Blair]

I don't think Kearney should be coaching the...

Oops, sorry. Wrong thread.

 

[captainwarrior]

Here’s another good one. Faumuina ultimately caused his own downfall but he was under appreciated imo

In particular, I think it gets overlooked how outstanding he was in the 2005 season. This kinda ties in with the Wiki thing, as Wiki pretty inexplicably got player of the season that year while Faumuina got nothing, yet a lot of the time it was like he was simultaneously playing
the roles of stand off, off-loading backrower, workhorse, and hole-running centre in a side which sorely lacked creativity.

I 100% agree with this, and it directs straight to my point tbh. His 2005 season was that good that it makes me believe that if they’d persisted with him at 5/8 he would’ve been there for years. He would’ve been starting 13 for Kiwis in ‘05 had he not gone to Warrington. Still watch games from that year and wonder how he didn’t win our player of the year, especially when Wiki did. It wasn’t even close

 

[Beavers Headgear]

I don’t entirely agree, because imo Mannering was underrated.

I mean, I don’t think anyone turned their noses up at the likes of Hindmarsh/Gallen/Cordner winning major awards? For mine, Mannering was underrated in the sense that he wasn’t
mentioned alongside those guys.

Also, you’ve opened up a bit of a can of worms in that while Johnson (and Maloney for that matter) didn’t win player of the year awards, a certain Stacey Jones didn’t win many either...make of that what you will.

Not meant as a slight on Mannering at all mate, every quality team needs good players like him, but it’s that extra bit of quality that gets teams over the line

Suppose an example I can give is Aubusson, great player for the Chooks doing the job year in year out, but for the Roosters to get over the line the last couples of years, it’s the Tedesco, Keary and Cronk types getting them over the line

Hindmarsh you mentioned a good example too, great player who picked up the gongs year in year out in sides that weren’t delivering, but when he got Hayne firing with him and taking those gongs, they went further in the comp

 

[SmashEmBro]

Not meant as a slight on Mannering at all mate, every quality team needs good players like him, but it’s that extra bit of quality that gets teams over the line

Suppose an example I can give is Aubusson, great player for the Chooks doing the job year in year out, but for the Roosters to get over the line the last couples of years, it’s the Tedesco, Keary and Cronk types getting them over the line

Hindmarsh you mentioned a good example too, great player who picked up the gongs year in year out in sides that weren’t delivering, but when he got Hayne firing with him and taking those gongs, they went further in the comp

Couldn't agree more.
Mannering will go down as a club legend, but if the guy who's dominating at your club is the solid workhorse who tops 40 tackles and not a heck of a lot on attack, it means you're going through a few pretty lean years as a club

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Hopefully I word this one correctly

1 of the reasons the Warriors haven’t had success for a long time, is that Mannering was consistently winning player of the year awards

Not a slight on him as a player, but if his type of workhorse role is the best year in year out, then the star players who need to be winning you games haven’t been doing their jobs

Woo boy, worded that wrong and I would have gone Liam Neeson on you. I would have hunted you down, found you and had to have killed you.

It's a multi-layered one, that one. People saying Simon had no real attacking game and he won POTY because he had to do all the dirty work and no one else was. Well yeah, in a way. Before around 2013-14, Simon was a major attacking presence. Big guy, hit the line hard, could attract defenders and still get a ball away, and knew how to hit a hole and score a try. But after that, he had to shoulder 50 tackles a game and his attacking game dropped off. He'd show it on occasion but when you're trying to cover for 12 other blokes, it weighs on you. That's why he retired at 32. He was shot. And he'd done more travelling than any player in NRL history.

I can't find stats going further back but in 2014 he made 29 tackles per game. That skyrocketed to 45 in 2015, then 47 and 45 the next couple of years, then 2018 he was running on fumes and made 35.

So yeah I agree with the sentiment, but it's not quite that simple. If there were great players around him and people who were prepared to share the burden, he might not have been a work horse. And he might've won POTY for his all-round game. But yes, purely on face value he won POTY for heart. So did Micheal Luck in 2012.

The Warriors haven't had success for a long time because their skill level and effort is sub-par. And Mannering winning POTY of the year was a by-product of that. If he'd not won POTY they'd have won spoons.

 

[playdaball]

Kearney out...

 

[morningstar]

And third and final (for now)

Sam Tomkins did not flop in the NRL. More importantly, he was not an inferior player to Kevin Locke.

Tomkins’ 2014 season was easily better than any season Locke ever had.

2015, he got injured and decided he wanted to leave. We then immediately got RTS so it’s not like the Tomkins signing hurt the club either

And we got a decent chunk of his tranfer fee back from Wigan as well didn’t we?

His attacking stats in 2014 were top tier...

https://www.nrl.com/news/2015/01/02/how-good-is...-sam-tomkins/

What made 2014 so special?

The numbers don't lie. Tomkins finished in the top 15 players across the competition in terms of tries (13; 14th in the NRL), try assists (13; equal 14th), line-break assists (18; equal eighth) and tackle breaks (108; fourth)