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vs Dragons

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,725
Coaching has a lot to do with it - Mclennan was diabolical, and Elliott is (and has been shown to be hopeless)

Cleary was a big loss.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
A few things I've noticed is we seem to be playing our shift plays with a lot of depth. It seems the opposition defence has a lot of time to come up and also spread so when we get to the target area there's no real target gap anymore. The other thing I've noticed is we are diabolically slow on the ground. In fairness, I don't think Johnson or Townsend are the ones who should be copping criticism. At times Townsend made Mannering look half threatening for once and for once we saw a line break from a back up run, from Townsend. Johnson I thought was taking the ball to the line a lot more this week, and his kicking in the first half was excellent. A couple of grubbers in the second half were also well placed, even the Morris one, the issue was where we were defensively, the depth on the kick was good. Matulino was excellent, Rapira had two or three good charges... Lillyman I note is doing a lot of work, but the hand brake this year seems more pronounced as he comes to the line. Its costing him time in the ruck. Bakuya hasn't played well yet IMO, he's athletic enough to be creating quick tackles, his ball skills today were also fairly poor. Tomkins, I think he's a victim of the first line of my post, he's receiving the ball when they're well adjusted. Despite the criticism, out of the 5 tries we've scored this year, he's scored one and had 3 try assists. I'd also question where the support has been to create any block for him under the bomb. I'd much prefer the Warriors go more direct, and use the offload through the middle for Johnson and Tomkins. If they don't offload, as long as they get a quick play the ball, thats when Johnson and Tomkins need to take the ball well at the line and use their agility.

All in all, an incredibly poor performance. A number of personnel haven't rocked up this year. Bakuya thus far has been poor, Neilsen is a non event (yes he did scramble well to save a try admittedly), Lillyman is putting in load of effort but is non effective. I note Johnson and Tomkins are receiving a tonne of criticism, but boy, to me it starts up front, and it finishes with their structure. One is an attitude issue, the other is IMO poor coaching.

And this is where Scurrah isn't immune from criticism. The bloke led the coup d'etat to scuttle Ivan Cleary, who has clearly been our best coach. I dare say he's also a reason John Hart isn't with the club any longer, Hart as much as some die hard league people won't admit was extremely good for the club IMO. He's made two poor judgements in who he has put in as coaches in McClennan and Elliott. I see him as a very political animal. When McClennan went, I recall Scurrah on the radio defending himself due to good commercial results, almost avoiding any contact on the football side of things. I also recall him talking about how he deferred a lot of responsibility on the coaching appointments to others. At the end of the day, he is the head of the organisation. The cultural fish at this joint stinks from the top down. I wonder if Neilsen was asked to be completely honest what differences he'd site from the Storm to the Warriors. Publically he will say not much. I bet there is a tonne. I bet at the Storm little things like getting to the training ground 30 minutes in advance and practising something or rather or a pet play is a fate a compli. By the time the coach is scheduled, they'd be stripped into their training gear and ready to go. I wonder whether our blokes turn up 5 minutes before in beanies and chill in the dressing rooms before going out. These are the things I never hear answered. And these, as much as he wishes to deflect, can start from the top.

If this keeps going, Scurrah can't escape, Price as CEO, Elliott gone, they won't get a seasoned first grade coach but looking at Robinson and McGuire, I'm not sure that's a necessity. FWIW, I think Green and Arthur (despite last night) will be successful as well. I'd look at Dave Kidwell and Jason Taylor. Both have been involved with excellent club cultures with Souths and Melbourne for Kidwell, Taylor for the Roosters. Taylor physically shouldn't have been a stand out in the NRL, but he was because he was smart and a hard worker. Yes, he made a fundamental mistake with Fa'alogo, he looks like a bloke who would learn though. Elliott, he's been a proven failure for well over a decade in this competition.
 

Rich102

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,762
Good post Iafeta.
Isn't Bell director of football operations, or some such? He should be fronting with some answers too.
Jeez, if Glenn had given Bellamy the extra year to complete his contract we could be in a different position now.
 

Cheops

Juniors
Messages
254
I don't really get all the Mateo hate. He touched the ball almost twice as much as any other forward, made almost 100 metres, 26 tackles with 1 missed, 1 error (out of 13) and a couple of his passes before the line created space or a half break (his work before the line was what set up the space for the Ropati try). He could be criticized for a lack of offloads I guess, but he's not alone there and he cops it if he does try to push an offload that's not on.

Personally, I would swap him to the left edge and play Mannering in the middle, but that's because I think he's actually trying to do too much in the middle, not because he's lazy and doing nothing.
 

warrior poet

Juniors
Messages
111
i've been thinking about the team selections that we've made so far and i'm thinking our issues are a combination of players lacking form/motivation and combinations not working... i would like to see this team next week

1.fish
2.ropati
3.mannering
4.hurrell
5.laumape
6.tomkins
7.leuluai (assuming he's fit)
8.matulino
9.friend
10.MANU
11.bukuya
12.ikihihifo
13.palavi

14.matagi
15.lillyman
16.johnson (covering all back positions)
17.fusitua/vete/peteru/bhana/havili/faitala-mariner/hukutai/kata/lolohea (admittedly to early for some of them but one of them has to be the spark the team needs!)

mateo/ townsend/ rapira/ neilsen to nsw cup so that they have to perform to get back into first grade.
the ropati/mannering combination is for defensive reasons and also because they've played together for a long time so should have a good combo, hurrell/laumape do seem to have the beginnings of a good combo (just needs time)
tomkins/ leuluai know each others game so should be able to be a good halfs pairings (plus they've probably played a similar role for wigan) and putting tomkins in the halves would put him in a position where he can be protected a little bit while he adapts to the nrl. Johnson to the bench so that he can add impact when he's brought on and hopefully realise that his position is not as secure as what he thinks it is.

Manu to prop is just because i think he can do it (he plays like a second prop anyway) and it has been something that has been rumoured about since cleary was coach. Lillyman's minutes would be limited so that he has a bigger impact when he comes on... with matulino having to adapt to playing more minutes (he is our number 1 prop and seems to play better when he spends more time on field).
Bukuya, Ikihihifo and palavi are players that i can see working well together in the backrow (and if they don't have a more experienced player there they hopefully would step up and show why they're in the squad). If needed mannering can move there aswell

In terms of spine, leuluai could replace friend, johnson could replace leuluai, tomkins could replace fish, ropati can play 5/8 if needed, this would give us the option of altering the spine depending on how the game is going! (some players are good in some types of games but struggle in others... warriors games seem to change mid-game).
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
40,589
I'm starting to like the idea of moving Tomkins in 5/8. He gets shown up in d a bit at FB , but does a lot of good stuff on attack that would translate well to 5/8. Ideally I'd like to see that with Locke at the back though.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
40,589
2010 was Price's last season I believe and he was injured for much of that, Mateo started in 2011.

He never actually played in 2010- started the season injured and announced his retirement without playing a match, cruel way to go. So 2009 was his final year, playing-wise.
 

vvvrulz

Coach
Messages
13,625
As soon as Cleary left the heads of Johnson, Brown, Locke and Packer among others swelled like anything.

Like him or hate him, Cleary did have a way of keeping ego's in check and pulling heads in.

Its a particularly big problem with Johnson, you could clearly see he wasn't really getting along with Maloney and Mateo during the Bluey horror year, TL seemed to get him sorted for a while last year but now this year he's skipping around alone nine's style and not really bothering to form a combination with Townsend, Fish, Tomkins etc.

What Izz said about him rolling his eyes at Tomkins (if true) wouldn't surprise me even one bit.

Mateo is horrible to watch when he isn't clicking, but I don't see evidence of an attitude problem.
 

jaseg

Juniors
Messages
2,274
What was hugely wrong with Ropati yesterday?

Dropping an overweight Hurrell to NSW cup was an absolute must if you are going to be lazy and non professional. Quite clearly teaching Hurrell a lesson considering Ropati is known to be at least a pro off the field.

Nothing.

22 tackles - only Friend made more - with only 1 miss (0 ineffective). 3 tackle breaks, 1 line break, 1 try, 0 errors, 0 penalties conceded. Frankly, Ropati was one of our best (not saying much, but still). I fully expect him to retain his spot somewhere in the 17 - if Hurrell does make it into the team, it should be for someone else (Ben Henry is injured - perhaps Konny off the bench?).
 

GT0007

Juniors
Messages
1,967
Nothing.

22 tackles - only Friend made more - with only 1 miss (0 ineffective). 3 tackle breaks, 1 line break, 1 try, 0 errors, 0 penalties conceded. Frankly, Ropati was one of our best (not saying much, but still). I fully expect him to retain his spot somewhere in the 17 - if Hurrell does make it into the team, it should be for someone else (Ben Henry is injured - perhaps Konny off the bench?).

Hurrell was disappointing in NSW Cup considering his stature and his form from last year
 

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