Vs Storm ANZAC day Rd 7

[Tongue]

I was fine with an older, wiser Johnson coming back with neat touches, smart kicks and game control... steering CHT and Walsh into an effective spine which is something Nikorima couldn't do.

It even looked like in recent weeks we might have got that, but boy yesterday was classic SJ with the flashy million dollar plays and periods of complete anonymity. Is he carrying a niggle? Makes it even more problematic if he's only on half power and is our leading half.

Has to be injured. Bruised his kneecap last week.

 

[Scott]

Johnson is not the issue. We had 6 sets of six in 40 minutes. Nothing to do with Johnson. He has controlled previous games he has played in very well this year.

The first thing we require in AFB & Lodge on the field for longer. The fact that they both sit down at the same time is in issue. Afoa is very close to useless defensively.

 

[JJ]

I specifically said Johnson wasn't the issue, but he's also never going to be the solution... he's a place holder now, nothing more

The problems are systemic... not sure they can be turned around quickly, but I live in hope

 

[Matua]

Was he? I always thought Jim Doyle was not a messiah, but about as good as we'd get. I can't remember what was thought of Cameron George. He seems like a bunch of hot air. At least Doyle had history in the game - George is a horse racing guy. Him and our owner have no idea how to run an NRL club.

Anyway, more importantly, how do we promote, develop and support NZ league? Honest question. How do we repair the parlous state of the game in this country?

I'm not a magician!

But to start, pick some NZers, if we're going down by 70 points we may as well do it with homegrown players. Get better talent scouts so that the Warriors lock in schoolboy talent, or for that matter even recognise talent, before the Storm etc do. Maybe set up Warriors/NZRL junior comps around the country and have the players attend prize givings etc. I'm just spitballing though. Burning it to the ground might be a better option.

As to the was he, if you go back through this forum you'll find lots of support for George. I'm too lazy to do it though.

 

[Blair]

70-10, them. Final.

Just for posterity.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Johnson is not the issue. We had 6 sets of six in 40 minutes. Nothing to do with Johnson. He has controlled previous games he has played in very well this year.

The first thing we require in AFB & Lodge on the field for longer. The fact that they both sit down at the same time is in issue. Afoa is very close to useless defensively.

I beg to differ slightly.
The effort shown by a senior players, one being SJ in defense shirt grabbing, not turning and putting in an effort, seemingly leaving it to someone else is a HUGE problem. It can quickly set in an attitude of "if he's not trying, why should I" in weaker minded characters. Which we seem to have plenty of. Also those that want to compare pay packets to those earning more but not putting in the effort.
Our attitude stinks and a decent coach (Bellamy)would of had them vomiting at training today for that effort.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I'm not a magician!

But to start, pick some NZers, if we're going down by 70 points we may as well do it with homegrown players. Get better talent scouts so that the Warriors lock in schoolboy talent, or for that matter even recognise talent, before the Storm etc do. Maybe set up Warriors/NZRL junior comps around the country and have the players attend prize givings etc. I'm just spitballing though. Burning it to the ground might be a better option.

As to the was he, if you go back through this forum you'll find lots of support for George. I'm too lazy to do it though.

Haha I know you aren't a magician, but you and others certainly know more about the game from the ground up better than I do in NZ.

I'm giving up my SKY box this week - there's just no point. There's no cricket on, I'm not interested in rugby apart from the ABs which I can watch at the pub, and I'm at the point where I see no benefit in watching the Warriors. I know we're not good enough to make the 8 or win a finals game. I can't see any improvement in us. Hell, we've now resorted to signing dickheads on overs - Lodge, AFB, Walker, Barnett.

I just cannot see how we're going to get better. You say pick NZ guys, well that's cool - but we've been doing that for years. Kearney did it to zero effect. Guys like Sipley, Niukora, Faitala-Mariner, before them SST, Papali'i being the obvious one, they go nowhere in our system and go over to Aussie clubs and get better almost overnight. So what's the point? We can get the best talent scouts (which we had, but COVID f**ked us) but unless that talent develops, no point. These young kids know they can become superstars much more easily in Australia.

I hate talking like this but honestly, I can see us being 20 years down the track and still yet to win a finals game. There's so many issues.

Rugby League as a pathway in NZ looks dead to me. No NRL feeder-quality league is being played in NZ that I'm aware of. Rugby is so dominant. Kids all want to be union players because a) the Warriors aren't fashionable (and to be fair, no one has seen them here for 3 years) and b) rugby is visible, popular and the money is much better. Someone like a Lachlan Boshier, who never played for the ABs, is able to go to Japan and command I would guess 500k or so a season. No brainer. Just as we don't develop players, we don't develop coaches either. The IP is so thin on the ground here. NRL players don't want to live in NZ - AFB apart, we have tended to bring back the Adam Blairs, SJ etc back for end of career swansongs. It's just seen as a graveyard for careers for players and coaches.

We've had period in the past where we've excelled - 2001-2003 was not a good time for rugby, there was a bumper crop of NZ league players who came through what was still a decent local system, and we signed good hard-nosed Aussie talents as well. Plus we had a good coach. 2006-11 we rode an outstanding coach by and large, and his ability to attract and develop talent, plus the great John Ackland was there too. We had league firing at lower levels - Vulcans were hyper-competitive in a good comp, the Bartercard was still alright and school footy existed. None of those things are anywhere near in existence now.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

My solution: I can say because I have no particular affinity to NZ Rugby League, because I've never played a game in my life. I would base us as much over the ditch as I could without losing all touch as an NZ-based team. I would play our home games in NZ and spread them across AKL/CHCH/Wellington etc, but train during the week at our 'base' wherever it was in Australia. I would have an Australian-heavy staff, with CEOs and talent scouts who know the NRL. Our junior pathways would come somewhat through Australia, with a view to identifying and bringing over talent from NZ as well. I would want to keep the NZ feel to the side as much as I could in terms of players, but I wouldn't be too worried about that.

This country will take a Warriors team to its heart if it's winning, even if it loses some local identity. If it stays how it is and still hasn't won a finals game in 10 years, it'll be dead anyway. And I can't see how that gets avoided under the current environment. You'd have to fluke an outstanding CEO and coach to do that. That's all we can hope for right now

 

[Benek]

RL in NZ has also gone downhill a lot since the under 20's comp was cancelled. That has killed a big part of our development pathway. It seems like ages ago when we had that awesome lineup of under 20's, Reggies, and NRL team - all of which were successful and feeding players up the funnel. We need to find a way back to that.

 

[Blair]

RL in NZ has also gone downhill a lot since the under 20's comp was cancelled. That has killed a big part of our development pathway. It seems like ages ago when we had that awesome lineup of under 20's, Reggies, and NRL team - all of which were successful and feeding players up the funnel. We need to find a way back to that.

People often forget how good we were in the NSW Cup. There were no 'culture problems', we were a tight, exciting, hard-nosed outfit, that every other team respected.

Thankfully, it's back next year.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

People often forget how good we were in the NSW Cup. There were no 'culture problems', we were a tight, exciting, hard-nosed outfit, that every other team respected.

Thankfully, it's back next year.

I don't forget at all - that glorious day in 2011 when we made all three GFs. Holy f**k, we weren't to know where we'd end up in 10 years...

 

[Alan Johnson]

Kids all want to be union players because the Warriors aren't fashionable (and to be fair, no one has seen them here for 3 years)

I agree with much of what you’ve written but I think this is wrong. Not so much that kids want to play union (I’m sure they do), but that the Warriors aren’t fashionable. They ARE! I guarantee if you take a walk around somewhere like Lynmall (my hood) you will see ten times more Warriors than super rugby, even All Blacks, merchandise.

The Warriors are a cultural icon in Auckland, and I reckon a lot of New Zealand.

They are also an alternative to the mainstream (rugby) and that holds a lot of appeal to some people, myself included.

I can’t provide any evidence to back this up but I would suggest that the Warriors are an extremely successful brand, whose popularity belies the tea’s shitness. Consider the film Hunt for the Wilderpeople. When the main kid is in that girls house and her dad comes into the kitchen and mutters something about the Warriors being useless. That shit was hilarious. I think the fact he put that gag in shows how much cultural capital the Warriors have.

 

[JJ]

I don't forget at all - that glorious day in 2011 when we made all three GFs. Holy f**k, we weren't to know where we'd end up in 10 years...

They’ve made several very astute coaching decisions since then eh

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I agree with much of what you’ve written but I think this is wrong. Not so much that kids want to play union (I’m sure they do), but that the Warriors aren’t fashionable. They ARE! I guarantee if you take a walk around somewhere like Lynmall (my hood) you will see ten times more Warriors than super rugby, even All Blacks, merchandise.

The Warriors are a cultural icon in Auckland, and I reckon a lot of New Zealand.

They are also an alternative to the mainstream (rugby) and that holds a lot of appeal to some people, myself included.

I can’t provide any evidence to back this up but I would suggest that the Warriors are an extremely successful brand, whose popularity belies the tea’s shitness. Consider the film Hunt for the Wilderpeople. When the main kid is in that girls house and her dad comes into the kitchen and mutters something about the Warriors being useless. That shit was hilarious. I think the fact he put that gag in shows how much cultural capital the Warriors have.

No, this is very true. They almost have meme value - let's gone Warriors, it's our year etc.

 

[JJ]

There’s something endearing about supporting a team that’s perpetually a car crash…. My two favourite grand finals are 91 and whenever the Sharks won, Penrith especially had an existence for so long that made the Warriors look awesome, then a supremely talented bunch of youngsters, a brilliant coach and a few hard heads did something great

 

[Blair]

There’s something endearing about supporting a team that’s perpetually a car crash…. My two favourite grand finals are 91 and whenever the Sharks won, Penrith especially had an existence for so long that made the Warriors look awesome, then a supremely talented bunch of youngsters, a brilliant coach and a few hard heads did something great

Warriors fans have copped a lot here in Sydney these past two days! I quite like playing up the loser thing! I live and work in Panthers territory, they aint humble anymore, let me shout that out.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Everyone has a short memory at times, Ivan was frequently said to be a good coach to get us in the 8 but not good enough to win one while he was here. Hindsight is a beautiful thing.
Ackland still want to coach? Was good at developing younger talent.

The fix is a long one, but need to start at the base, like any solid building.

 

[JJ]

Warriors fans have copped a lot here in Sydney these past two days! I quite like playing up the loser thing! I live and work in Panthers territory, they aint humble anymore, let me shout that out.

No, but their parents were lol

 

[Rich102]

I agree with much of what you’ve written but I think this is wrong. Not so much that kids want to play union (I’m sure they do), but that the Warriors aren’t fashionable. They ARE! I guarantee if you take a walk around somewhere like Lynmall (my hood) you will see ten times more Warriors than super rugby, even All Blacks, merchandise.

The Warriors are a cultural icon in Auckland, and I reckon a lot of New Zealand.

They are also an alternative to the mainstream (rugby) and that holds a lot of appeal to some people, myself included.

I can’t provide any evidence to back this up but I would suggest that the Warriors are an extremely successful brand, whose popularity belies the tea’s shitness. Consider the film Hunt for the Wilderpeople. When the main kid is in that girls house and her dad comes into the kitchen and mutters something about the Warriors being useless. That shit was hilarious. I think the fact he put that gag in shows how much cultural capital the Warriors have.

Yeah, very true.
They have sold many many jerseys, maybe at the cost of concentrating on the football.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I don’t think there’s any issue at all with the popularity or cultural significance of the Warriors or the NRL generally. If anything it’s high level rugby that has been gradually feeling the pinch in terms of reduced viewers and general public interest. Probably sport in general really. It’s so common to hear people say ‘I don’t care about Union but I love the NRL’ that I’m not sure it even counts as truly counter-cultural anymore.

The issue is that the NRL is a highly popular competition and TV/entertainment product in NZ but rugby league remains a minor, niche, and broadly unappealing participation sport. There simply aren’t ‘pathways’ for young league players because there’s a total lack of high profile domestic rugby league to attract them. We are inevitably left trying to recruit schoolboy union players, or bring Kiwis back from Australia who got recruited from here in the first place. It’s almost impossible to ‘recruit’ a 13-17 year old kid while they remain in NZ because no pathway exists for them. You just have to hope they keep playing shit standard, haphazard club footy and somehow at 18-19 be a worthwhile investment for the Warriors. Generally, if you’re a league player in his late teens and still playing in NZ you’re probably not very good.

I love my Auckland club footy, don’t get me wrong, but it’s the epitome of ‘grassroots’ and honestly more suited to giving gang members a place to drink cheap beer than providing any sort of serious coaching or development to promising youngsters. There really is very little propping the whole sport up underneath the facade of the Warriors.