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WA BEARS

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
22,988
So the Dolphins have a strong junior base and loads of money...... so why do they feel the need to snatch all the up-coming talent at other clubs like the Panthers? Or take almost half of the Melbourne starting forward pack? Its a far cry from what the Dolphins were saying pre-acceptance into the NRL that if an existing club fell over they were ready to step in. The Dolphins system is a joke at the moment.
More nrl ready

Penrith hasn’t even got a spot for them long term
 
Messages
12,773
They were sacrificed as part of the Broncos exclusivity deal when the NRL was formed.

The ARL had well-backed clubs aligned with it (Parra, Manly, Easts, Norths) but also traditional clubs (Souths, Balmain, Saints) with generations of support behind it. This was what Superleague lacked- if Bullfrog Moore hadn't steered Canterbury towards SL, Superleague wouldn't have got off the ground. It needed a traditional Sydney club like the Bulldogs to give it a sense of legitimacy.

Otherwise it would've essentially been a competition full of teams with not much history to their names (Broncos & Raiders had less than 20 years of existence) or new teams with no success whatsoever and virtually no time to have built up any real support (Adelaide, Perth, Hunter, Warriors). The reason the World Club Challenge was a failure is because who really cared? Superleague just felt like it was run for the Broncos benefit and the rest just made up the numbers.

Cutting/ merging a whole stack of traditional clubs won't grow the NRL- turning away your most loyal customers to try and attract new ones isn't growth. The AFL has been a success because of it's traditional clubs and their widespread following, not in spite of them.
So many falsehoods in your post.

FACT 1: Super League drew higher attendances than ARL.

Super League drew 12,347 vs 9,915 for ARL.

So how exactly were the "traditional" fanbases of the established NSWRL clubs more loyal?

They sure weren't loyal to their clubs during this period.

FACT 2: The expansion clubs drew better attendances in 1997 than the "traditional" NSWRL clubs.

Brisbane Broncos 19,298
North Queensland Cowboys 17,539
Auckland Warriors 15,442
Adelaide Rams 15,330

The best attended Sydney club in Super League was Cronulla Sharks at 13,558!

Canberra drew 11,622, whereas the second best attended Sydney club was Canterbury Bulldogs at a lousy 8,815!

Even the Perth Reds manage to draw 8,776, which was higher than Penrith Panthers at 7,673!


That's just Super League, which pissed all over the ARL in attendances. The attendances for Sydney clubs in ARL were just as bad.

On the ARL side of the war we had Illawarra Steelers (8,695), Westerb Sydney Magpies (8,602), St George Dragons (7,222) and South Sydney Rabbitohs (5,287) draw lower attendances than the Perth Reds. Steelers weren't much older than the Broncos but drew less fans than the Reds and were still better attended than three long-standing NSWRL clubs.

The two stand out winners in ARL were Parramatta Eels (15,647) and Newcastle Knights (14,257). Knights were no older than the Broncos and from outside of Sydney but drew less than Adelaide Rams!

Parramatta Eels were behind Brisbane Broncos and North Queensland Cowboys but marginally ahead of Auckland Warriors and Adelaide Rams.

Manly Sea Eagles (11,816), North Sydney Bears (11,713), Balmain Tigers (10,355), Sydney City Roosters (9,430) and Gold Coast Chargers (8,958) were the best of the rest. South Queensland Crushers (7,003) were ahead of South Sydney!

 
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Wb1234

Referee
Messages
22,988
it's too late now... but they should have rationalised Sydney in the 90s. The SL war was the perfect opportunity to set the comp up for the long term but they stuffed it.

I think you would have ideally gone with:

1. Broncos
2. NQ Cowboys
3. Gold Coast
4. Brisbane 2 (whether its the crushers or someone else)

5-11 - 7 spots for Sydney/central coast/Wollongong clubs (I'm not going to specify which clubs)

12. Newcastle
13. Canberra
14. Melbourne
15. NZ Warriors
16. Perth

then sometime around 2010 we would have been looking at reintroducing Adelaide and maybe NZ2 and move to 18 teams
Why not cut Canberra

players don’t want to go there and channel nine doesn’t want to show them ever
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,941
Cutting/ merging a whole stack of traditional clubs won't grow the NRL- turning away your most loyal customers to try and attract new ones isn't growth. The AFL has been a success because of it's traditional clubs and their widespread following, not in spite of them.
AFL has been a success because it hasn't let its traditional VFL clubs hold it back, a far cry from the NRL and how NSWRL clubs dominate decision making. I mean everyone knows Brisbane2 was a no brainer yet clubs still tried to block it and Vlandys had to make sht up to appease them! Rather than spending money on expansion NRL has had to use its revenue to up NRL club grants from $7million to $15mill to just keep some of them going. I'm all for adding clubs and not culling but lets stop the procrastination and investment in growth because some of these clubs struggle to keep the doors open. If they cant keep up then that's on them.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
22,988
So many falsehoods in your post.

FACT 1: Super League drew higher attendances than ARL.

Super League drew 12,347 vs 9,915 for ARL.

So how exactly were the "traditional" fanbases of the established NSWRL clubs more loyal?

They sure weren't loyal to their clubs during this period.

FACT 2: The expansion clubs drew better attendances in 1997 than the "traditional" NSWRL clubs.

Brisbane Broncos 19,298
North Queensland Cowboys 17,539
Auckland Warriors 15,442
Adelaide Rams 15,330

The best attended Sydney club in Super League was Cronulla Sharks at 13,558!

Canberra drew 11,622, whereas the second best attended Sydney club was Canterbury Bulldogs at a lousy 8,815!

Even the Perth Reds manage to draw 8,776, which was higher than Penrith Panthers at 7,673!


That's just Super League, which pissed all over the ARL in attendances. The attendances for Sydney clubs in ARL were just as bad.
That’s why the super league grand final winner is followed by an asterix
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,941
Why not cut Canberra

players don’t want to go there and channel nine doesn’t want to show them ever
Like Gold Coast they are a necessary evil in the fight with AFL. If Tassie comes in as seems to be expected then Canberra will be club 20.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,941
Rugby league played in China yeh great

plus less teams where people actually cared about it

brilliant
Like a global vision for the sport, bringing the northern and southern hemisphere games closer together, rationalising Sydney but keeping historic clubs involved, developing the PI's and PNG and bringing in big city teams. The vision was where the ARL was taking the game anyways, or at least had been trying to for over a decade.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
22,988
Like a global vision for the sport, bringing the northern and southern hemisphere games closer together, rationalising Sydney but keeping historic clubs involved, developing the PI's and PNG and bringing in big city teams. The vision was where the ARL was taking the game anyways, or at least had been trying to for over a decade.
Hahhaha

none of that happened

super league was about two things

1. Murdoch getting the pay tv rights to build foxtel. Mission accomplished. Huge win

2. Brisbane killing off any other Brisbane rugby league clubs …. Again huge success. They basically got Brisbane to themselves for 30 years and even now have a say on which clubs come in against them
 

MrE_Assassin

Juniors
Messages
444
More nrl ready

Penrith hasn’t even got a spot for them long term
But thats what I mean, during the Pandemic they were saying they were NRL ready to step in if the Warriors were going to pull out of the NRL. If they were so NRL ready then why have they barely signed any juniors into their top 30? I'm pretty sure the only locals they have signed are 3 guys on development contracts.... Why do they need to pinch 18-19 year olds out of Sydney when they should have some young guys across their grades to fill those spots?

They were touting that they wanted to bring QLD'ers back to QLD and they've barely done that too. They're not doing anything different to just slapping a club in any location and filling it with whoever they can get....
 
Messages
12,773
That’s why the super league grand final winner is followed by an asterix
Let's rank all teams from 1997 by attendance.

Brisbane Broncos (SL)
North Queensland Cowboys (SL)
Parramatta Eels (ARL)
Auckland Warriors (SL)
Adelaide Rams (SL)
Newcastle Knights (ARL)
Cronulla Sharks (SL)
Manly Sea Eagles (ARL)
North Sydney Bears (ARL)
Canberra Raiders (SL)
Balmain Tigers (ARL)
Sydney City Roosters (ARL)
Gold Coast Chargers (ARL)
Canterbury Bulldogs (SL)
Perth Reds (SL)
Illawarra Steelers (ARL)
Western Sydney Magpies (ARL)
Penrith Panthers (SL)
St George Dragons (ARL)
South Queensland Crushers (ARL)
Hunter Pirates (SL)
South Sydney Rabbitohs (ARL)
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,941
Hahhaha

none of that happened

super league was about two things

1. Murdoch getting the pay tv rights to build foxtel. Mission accomplished. Huge win

2. Brisbane killing off any other Brisbane rugby league clubs …. Again huge success. They basically got Brisbane to themselves for 30 years and even now have a say on which clubs come in against them
Like I said vision was good, execution was poor. The SL vision was not much different to what ARL had been trying to move to since the mid 80's.
 
Messages
12,773
But thats what I mean, during the Pandemic they were saying they were NRL ready to step in if the Warriors were going to pull out of the NRL. If they were so NRL ready then why have they barely signed any juniors into their top 30? I'm pretty sure the only locals they have signed are 3 guys on development contracts.... Why do they need to pinch 18-19 year olds out of Sydney when they should have some young guys across their grades to fill those spots?

They were touting that they wanted to bring QLD'ers back to QLD and they've barely done that too. They're not doing anything different to just slapping a club in any location and filling it with whoever they can get....
That's because the best young players are snapped up by NRL clubs before they're 18. There would be plenty of players in the NRL who played for Redcliffe when they were younger, but are now contracted to other NRL teams. Redcliffe did try to bring Queenslanders back to Brisbane but few of them signed. If the North Sydney Bears got back in they would be signing whoever is available to be competitive.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,941
An 18 team comp in 98 with these clubs would have been so so so a better outcome. Imagine where we would be now 25 years later if this had been the make up after SL!

Qlnd
Brisbane Broncos (SL)
South Queensland Crushers (ARL)
North Queensland Cowboys (SL)
Gold Coast Chargers (ARL)

NSW
CC Bears (ARL)
Newcastle Knights (ARL)
Parramatta Eels (ARL)
Canterbury Bulldogs (SL)
Penrith Panthers (SL)
South Sydney Rabbitohs (ARL)
Manly Seaeagles (ARL)
St George Illawarra Dragons
Wests Tigers

Rest
Melbourne Storm
Auckland Warriors (SL)
Adelaide Rams (SL)
Canberra Raiders (SL)
Perth Reds (SL)

We could now be talking about an exciting international inclusion for teams 19&20
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
22,988
Why
Let's rank all teams from 1997 by attendance.

Brisbane Broncos (SL)
North Queensland Cowboys (SL)
Parramatta Eels (ARL)
Auckland Warriors (SL)
Adelaide Rams (SL)
Newcastle Knights (ARL)
Cronulla Sharks (SL)
Manly Sea Eagles (ARL)
North Sydney Bears (ARL)
Canberra Raiders (SL)
Balmain Tigers (ARL)
Sydney City Roosters (ARL)
Gold Coast Chargers (ARL)
Canterbury Bulldogs (SL)
Perth Reds (SL)
Illawarra Steelers (ARL)
Western Sydney Magpies (ARL)
Penrith Panthers (SL)
St George Dragons (ARL)
South Queensland Crushers (ARL)
Hunter Pirates (SL)
South Sydney Rabbitohs (ARL)
*
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
22,988
An 18 team comp in 98 with these clubs would have been so so so a better outcome. Imagine where we would be now 25 years later if this had been the make up after SL!

Qlnd
Brisbane Broncos (SL)
South Queensland Crushers (ARL)
North Queensland Cowboys (SL)
Gold Coast Chargers (ARL)

NSW
CC Bears (ARL)
Newcastle Knights (ARL)
Parramatta Eels (ARL)
Canterbury Bulldogs (SL)
Penrith Panthers (SL)
South Sydney Rabbitohs (ARL)
Manly Seaeagles (ARL)
St George Illawarra Dragons
Wests Tigers

Rest
Melbourne Storm
Auckland Warriors (SL)
Adelaide Rams (SL)
Canberra Raiders (SL)
Perth Reds (SL)

We could now be talking about an exciting international inclusion for teams 19&20
Exactly

no Cronulla but that’s a small loss compared to the other clubs we actually lost

edit no roosters lmao
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
22,988
Like I said vision was good, execution was poor. The SL vision was not much different to what ARL had been trying to move to since the mid 80's.
The vision was bs that’s the point

super league was never about playing the game in China or it would’ve happened
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,941
Exactly

no Cronulla but that’s a small loss compared to the other clubs we actually lost

edit no roosters lmao
yeh something had to give, Roosters are an interesting one, by themselves not that impacting but obviously as the cbd club probably influential and as a foundation club and being wealthy it would be the big controversial one I suppose. At the time you'd drop Souths and keep roosters but 25 years later Souths are arguably more important. Dropping Cronulla you'd hope the Dragons would become the south coast rep club for that whole strip. Western Sydney is still a bit crowded and maybe the Dogs would be the one to go with Wests taking over that whole region if needed. Bears only get in if willing to give up NS to Manly who would take over that whole region. Wishful thinking for sure lol.

Anyways we've strayed off the WA Bears again lol
 

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