WA BEARS

[The Great Dane]

I disagree, ignorance can only be excused until someone educates you. After that if you choose to ignore the new Information and keep peddling the same bs it’s just trolling,

Unfortunately that's not how most people learn or accept new information.

It's a very well studied area, and put simply once a person has made up their mind on a subject it's almost impossible to get them to change it. It's especially hard when they become emotionally attached to the idea or embrace believing in said idea as a core part of their identity (which is definitely what's happening most of the time in this case).

People have to be open to that change to even be capable of changing their mind, and most of the time that's not the case on the issues that they truly care about.

Obviously I'm being simplistic, but it's called anchoring bias, and it's a real pain in the arse that takes a lot of objectivity training for people to even learn to recognise it.

 

[Perth Red]

So then which clubs out of the four they added in 1995 should’ve been omitted

1. Perth lol
2. Warriors
3. Cowboys
4. Crushers

I wasn’t privy to the bids so have no idea. Probably the warriors and Perth given the travel costs for both those clubs that the ARL couldnt afford. It wasn’t so much those travel costs, Puddy has stated the reds had that covered, it was adding the third side that killed the clubs budget planning. That was the really stupid decision the ARL made as none of the new clubs had planned for it.

 

[Perth Red]

Do you have amneisa ?

you were critisising him for signing that deal for years!

At the time we had no idea what it was for. my criticism was in accepting a lower 2019/20 covid reduction and extending the contract at a time of weakness.

you can spin it however you like but the nrl will get no more money for 17 clubs than it got for 16 clubs. that is the simple fact. For years we were told ch9 would pay through the nose for a second brisbane club. Guess what, they didn’t!

 

[Wb1234]

I wasn’t privy to the bids so have no idea. Probably the warriors and Perth given the travel costs for both those clubs that the ARL couldnt afford. It wasn’t so much those travel costs, Puddy has stated the reds had that covered, it was adding the third side that killed the clubs budget planning. That was the really stupid decision the ARL made as none of the new clubs had planned for it.

And maybe if they didn’t go to super league they could’ve sorted it out with the arl

I know there’s this narrative about the arl setting up these clubs to fail buts that’s just bs

they’d done a pretty good job of expansion up till then

 

[Wb1234]

At the time we had no idea what it was for. my criticism was in accepting a lower 2019/20 covid reduction and extending the contract at a time of weakness.

you can spin it however you like but the nrl will get no more money for 17 clubs than it got for 16 clubs. that is the simple fact. For years we were told ch9 would pay through the nose for a second brisbane club. Guess what, they didn’t!

The first paragraph says it all. They were stuck with a long contract for lesser money

then they renogotiated for more money

I don’t even know why you are arguing this is basic stuff

 

[Iamback]

As would just partnering with an existing qlnd cup side without having to take on their identity and sharing ownership

It is a DT story.

As always it is vague. So it is just guess work that it a 50/50 split.

I highly doubt Perth go to Bears and have them take control at anything more than 80/20.

 

[Perth Red]

And maybe if they didn’t go to super league they could’ve sorted it out with the arl

I know there’s this narrative about the arl setting up these clubs to fail buts that’s just bs

they’d done a pretty good job of expansion up till then

I have no doubt that they didnt want them to fail but it was clear their eyes were bigger than their belly’s in this instance!
Only they will ever know why they did what they did but in hindsight, and isnt that a wonderful gift!, saddling the clubs with travel and accomodation costs, and then bringing in a 3rd side to add to that pain was just clearly stupid.

 

[The Great Dane]

The club had decided to move to central coast before the got kicked out so I’m sure the majority of fans were ok with the move

nso is good for one or two games a year. It’s not much better than Henson park

Ha ha, they absolutely were not lol.

Mate I lived it, there were plenty whom were devastated at the idea of the club relocating, even just to the CC.

Whether or not those people were the majority is impossible to know for sure at this point, however they were definitely a sizable portion of the fanbase. Of course the relocation was quickly forgotten once the club's troubles really begun.

 

[Perth Red]

The first paragraph says it all. They were stuck with a long contract for lesser money

then they renogotiated for more money

I don’t even know why you are arguing this is basic stuff

Then why the frick sign a 5 year extension for $100million less With fox? There was no need to. Whose stupid idea was that? Could you imagine any previous nrl ceo or chair getting away with that?

im arguing it as it seems incredulous and somewhat convenient they would sign a deal for $100mill less (first t8me in decades anyone has signed a lower tv deal than previous one) then expand and get, you guessed it $100mill more. It allowed vlandys to spin that expansion brought in $100mill without fox actually paying a cent more than last time. Hmmmmmm. Not Suss at all.

 

[Wb1234]

Then why the frick sign a 5 year extension for $100million less With fox? There was no need to. Whose stupid idea was that? Could you imagine any previous nrl ceo or chair getting away with that?

im arguing it as it seems incredulous and somewhat convenient they would sign a deal for $100mill less (first t8me in decades anyone has signed a lower tv deal than previous one) then expand and get, you guessed it $100mill more. It allowed vlandys to spin that expansion brought in $100mill without fox actually paying a cent more than last time. Hmmmmmm. Not Suss at all.

Vlandys has said he regretted stopping the competition and this allowing the broadcasters to say they breached the contract

but I believe he always intended to add the dolphins and would be renegotiating it anyway. There was always a clause allowing for it to be varied if a team was added

 

[Wb1234]

Ha ha, they absolutely were not lol.

Mate I lived it, there were plenty whom were devastated at the idea of the club relocating, even just to the CC.

Whether or not those people were the majority is impossible to know for sure at this point, however they were definitely a sizable portion of the fanbase. Of course the relocation was quickly forgotten once the club's troubles really begun.

Yeh but today I think they would just be happy if they got back on the central coast with one of two games at nso

they’ve been gone so long beggars can’t be choosers.

plus nso isn’t really fit for nrl games anyway

 

[Wb1234]

I have no doubt that they didnt want them to fail but it was clear their eyes were bigger than their belly’s in this instance!
Only they will ever know why they did what they did but in hindsight, and isnt that a wonderful gift!, saddling the clubs with travel and accomodation costs, and then bringing in a 3rd side to add to that pain was just clearly stupid.

Sure

but it wasn’t cause for a super league

and the arl itself was expecting a few Sydney clubs to fail. And they were going to add Melbourne and I think Adelaide soon after

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

As you well know the sharks ground capacity has been reduced significantly this year and the roosters are playing out of a ground temporarily which is unsuitable for league. As for tv ratings they are great across the board. Sydney teams rate very well across the various platforms. The great news is those clubs are going to continue regardless of how much it annoys you. This makes me happy. Go sharks!

You keep saying the same thing but never provide any evidence to back it up.

Sharks are not averaging much less than than their normal attendances.

TV ratings for most Sydney clubs are poor compared to Brisbane, North Queensland and Melbourne. I've shown you the data but you refuse to accept reality.

The only reason the ARLC persists with nine financially unviable clubs from Sydney that have tiny fan bases is because the game is run by biased New South Welshman and a Sydney-centric media that doesn't care about the rest of the country. Every decision they make is based on the best interests of Sydney without a thought about the ramifications on interstate clubs. PVL's position on bringing back reserve grade sums up everything that's wrong with our game and is why we're destined to be the greatest sport that never reached its potential. For years we had a meaningless NSWRL vs CRL fixture as part of the representative calender, despite it being irrelevant to everyone outside of NSW and unable to draw a decent crowd anywhere. All of this insanity from the ARLC would be funny if it wasn't harming the game.

 

[Wb1234]

You keep saying the same thing but never provide any evidence to back it up.

Sharks are not averaging much less than than their normal attendances.

TV ratings for most Sydney clubs are poor compared to Brisbane, North Queensland and Melbourne. I've shown you the data but you refuse to accept reality.

The only reason the ARLC persists with nine financially unviable clubs from Sydney that have tiny fan bases is because the game is run by biased New South Welshman and a Sydney-centric media that doesn't care about the rest of the country. Every decision they make is based on the best interests of Sydney without a thought about the ramifications on interstate clubs. PVL's position on bringing back reserve grade sums up everything that's wrong with our game and is why we're destined to be the greatest sport that never reached its potential. For years we had a meaningless NSWRL vs CRL fixture as part of the representative calender, despite it being irrelevant to everyone outside of NSW and unable to draw a decent crowd anywhere. All of this insanity from the ARLC would be funny if it wasn't harming the game.

The game is run by nsw Welshman huh ?

is that the guy who wanted to add a new team in Brisbane to help league against afl ?

that guy ?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Nah in the Crushers case they were totally unprepared for what they were attempting and never should have been given a license in the first place.

It is however reasonable to blame Arko and Quayle for that, because not only were they the ones handing out the licenses, but I think it's fair to say that they were only so gung-ho about a the second Brisbane team as a veiled threat and reprimand to the Broncos, which is no way to run a business.

But this is a tangent.

You're right about the Crushers being a terrible option. The QRL backed the Crushers over the Cowboys and Arko and Quayle wanted to hurt the Broncos by introducing a second Brisbane team, but didn't put any thought into making sure it was viable.

The current approach to expansion is an improvement to 1995, but it could have been handled much better. Hopefully the Pirates get the licence so that we can have a near national footprint.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yeh I know what the username means

yet you staunchly defend the competition they created which caused that damage. That’s the bit that confuses me

if the broncos weren’t so greedy and arrogant Perth and Gold Coast would never have been killed off. Bears would be around on central coast

and two Sydney clubs would probably have died namely Cronulla and wests

league would be far better today if this had happened

The principle of Super League was more in line with the Bradley Report and gave the game a chance to grow across Australia and the world. We'll never know how successful it could have been because the NSWRL/ARL sabotaged it to keep as much power within Sydney, to the detriment of the game everywhere else.

Broncos and QRL had a dispute over alcohol sponsorship in the late 80s and early 90s and it led to the QRL favouring the Crushers. This didn't go down well with the Broncos and it helped convince them to side with News Ltd when Super League was proposed. The relationship between the QRL and Broncos was always going to be volatile as the latter put the final nail in the BRL's coffin, offsetting its commercial partners.

The NSWRL did favour the Sydney clubs back in those days. All finals games were played in Sydney until 1995. I recall a Cowboys vs Storm week 2 final was played in Sydney as recently as 2005. Things like this turned some Queenslanders against the game because it's a reminder that the NSWRL/ARLC want Sydney to be the centre of the RL universe, despite attendances and television ratings proving it's not.

The whole Super League affair could have been avoided if Arthurson and Quayle kept their word and rationalised Sydney, like they planned in the 80s. When the day came for them to put their plan into action they backflipped. It created a schism between the traditional NSWRL clubs and the expansion sides who had to play by a harsher set of rules.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The Sydney clubs do have more tradition that’s a fact

the reality is it’s the competition between those Sydney clubs that’s the basis of the nrl

even if you go outside of Sydney look how many jerseys there are from locals who support Sydney sides

if you put all the non Sydney nrl clubs on their own they would struggle. Sydney is the basis of the strength of the game in Australia

it’s nothing to be ashamed of either. Do afl fans who aren’t from Victoria talk this way about the Victorian clubs ? Because they joined the vfl

This is not true. We saw what happened when the interstate clubs went with Super League and all but three of the NSWRL clubs stayed with the ARL.

Why should I have supported the ARL over Super League when my club was in the latter and the former always treated Queenslanders like second class citizens?

It didn't bother me if a bunch of tiny Sydney clubs who had everything rigged in their favour during the 80s and early 90s fell over because I never had an emotional attachment to them.

Super League drew better attendances than the ARL. This is a fact. The bloke who obtained the pay TV rights for the ARL in 1995 for $0 paid money to screen one Super League match each week on Ch9, showing how little he valued the marketability of the Sydney clubs. Murdoch spent millions of dollars on Super League for Foxtel. Neither competition came out of it rich, but Super League drew more money from gate receipts while the ARL was in a terrible condition and on its knees outside of NSW.

The only people in Queensland who wear jerseys of cockroach clubs are Sydneysiders who migrated interstate for work and people who hate the Broncos. TV ratings in Queensland for games that don't involve the Broncos, Cowboys, Titans and Storm are very low, proving that there's no love for Sydney clubs north of the Tweed.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Do you really believe Vlandys signed an original 5year extension deal with fox for $100million less than the last deal? Honestly just think about that for a minute!

It would explain why he kept the details secret, wouldn't it?

 

[MugaB]

You were pushing for the Bears to relocate to Perth for months. Then you started talking down expansion into that market, based on absurd metrics like quality of WA juniors in SG Ball and a lack of a NSW Cup. Don't even deny it as we've all seen your posts. You've been especially negative towards Perth for awhile now.

There were positive posts about this bid on the first page.

Yes im happy for the bears return, if in nsw CC based, sharing games between SFS and CC only, mone of this roaming country business, also yes happy if the bears return thru a perth bid, but it has to be a perth based team only... not happy if they share games between sydney and perth... and also not happy if any home games are held at NSO especially... trials are fine... so read into whatever you want... your a twit, and think anyone positive about anything to do with sydney and their clubs is against your grain of thought

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

And maybe if they didn’t go to super league they could’ve sorted it out with the arl

I know there’s this narrative about the arl setting up these clubs to fail buts that’s just bs

they’d done a pretty good job of expansion up till then

A book from the North Queensland Cowboys called 20 Years In The Saddle explained what happened. The Cowboys were forced to cover flight and accommodation costs for every team that travelled to Townsville. That included ARL and Reserve Grade. It was enormous and the club couldn't afford it. The same stipulation was placed on the Reds. I think it might have been placed on Auckland and South Queensland as well, but I am not 100% certain. That meant Cowboys and Reds were paying flight and accommodation costs for 34 players over 20 rounds, whereas the players from the eleven Sydney teams were able to drive to most of their matches and travelled for free to Perth and Townsville.

Do you think that was fair?

This was during an era when Kerry Packer paid just $10 million per annum for the FTA and PTV broadcast rights to the NSWRL/ARL, beginning in 1993 and set to expire in 2000. Players only got about $25k to $50k per annum back then. To expect expansion clubs to fork out so much money was unreasonable and it was always going to send them broke.