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WA BEARS

Perth Red

Post Whore
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69,587
Wow well done GROTD you've managed to turn yet another thread into a discussion on Sydney lol. They need to make me a mod on here!
 
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14,822
Ok, so for arguments' sake we cut 3 Sydney clubs.

Who are you cutting?

FTR I am pro expansion, but expanding the comp as a whole. Culling/ merging teams to achieve this "vision" is a terrible idea and we saw how well that did for the game in terms of support and attractiveness to sponsors 25 years ago...
Southern Sydney has 500k people and two teams that have struggled on and off the field for the bulk of the last 30 years. One was forced into merging with Illawarra to create a Frankenstein team, sandwiching the other Southern Sydney team into a small isolated pocket. One needs to go. I'd get rid of the Sharks so Dragons can cover all of Southern Sydney and Illawarra. Cronulla fans will throw a tantrum but their fanbase in tiny and full of vile uncivilised hicks who give the sport a bad reputation, so good riddance.

Tigers and Bulldogs have been holding one another back for the best part of 20 years. One needs to go so the other can grow. Neither team has a genuine home ground. Tigers are spread over four grounds and cannot land a quality signing. Bulldogs are boxed in like Cronulla. Ideally I'd have the Magpies and Bulldogs merge and rebrand as a black and white Western Sydney Bulldogs and lobby for a new stadium in Macarthur or an upgrade to Campbelltown.

That's two teams gone and two over-saturated regions opened up. The third would be a merger between Manly and Sydney to creaate a team spanning from the eastern suburbs to Gosford. Sydney Sea Eagles has a nice ring to it.
 
Messages
14,822
Wow well done GROTD you've managed to turn yet another thread into a discussion on Sydney lol. They need to make me a mod on here!
To be fair it is a thread about a Sydney team trying to re-enter the NRL like a Manly in 2003. It is never going to work as North Sydney are delusional enough to think they hold the cards and won't give up their stake in Sydney to make it workable. They don't want to relocate permanently like the Swans and Lions. They are making it all about "North Sydney" and treating Western Australians like second-class citizens. The only people who are giving this stupid media beat-up any oxygen are dyed in the wool NSWRL fans who want a continuation of the NSWRL.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,587
To be fair it is a thread about a Sydney team trying to re-enter the NRL like a Manly in 2003. It is never going to work as North Sydney are delusional enough to think they hold the cards and won't give up their stake in Sydney to make it workable. They don't want to relocate permanently like the Swans and Lions. They are making it all about "North Sydney" and treating Western Australians like second-class citizens. The only people who are giving this stupid media beat-up any oxygen are dyed in the wool NSWRL fans who want a continuation of the NSWRL.
which if you'd stuck to that topic would be fine instead of going off onto the the usual cull Sydney clubs, which you and I both know is never going to happen and juts leads to pages of Sydney people defending Sydney and you arguing with them. All over something that is never happening.

We are in agreement the only way this works is if its owned by WA people not NS. If there are WA people that want to get in bed with NS and if NS will give up ownership are two things we dont know. The main thing out of it all though is the commitment of the WA govt to help it happen, that for me is far more important than NS Bears and should see Perth now as the fave for club 18, if it wasn't already.
Personally Id like to see NRL do what they did in Brisbane. Announce the next team will be from Perth then invite bids. We could see some new and interesting bidders who haven't yet shown their interest.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
which if you'd stuck to that topic would be fine instead of going off onto the the usual cull Sydney clubs, which you and I both know is never going to happen and juts leads to pages of Sydney people defending Sydney and you arguing with them. All over something that is never happening.

We are in agreement the only way this works is if its owned by WA people not NS. If there are WA people that want to get in bed with NS and if NS will give up ownership are two things we dont know. The main thing out of it all though is the commitment of the WA govt to help it happen, that for me is far more important than NS Bears and should see Perth now as the fave for club 18, if it wasn't already.
Personally Id like to see NRL do what they did in Brisbane. Announce the next team will be from Perth then invite bids. We could see some new and interesting bidders who haven't yet shown their interest.

It might be time for the Quokkas
 
Messages
14,822
which if you'd stuck to that topic would be fine instead of going off onto the the usual cull Sydney clubs, which you and I both know is never going to happen and juts leads to pages of Sydney people defending Sydney and you arguing with them. All over something that is never happening.

We are in agreement the only way this works is if its owned by WA people not NS. If there are WA people that want to get in bed with NS and if NS will give up ownership are two things we dont know. The main thing out of it all though is the commitment of the WA govt to help it happen, that for me is far more important than NS Bears and should see Perth now as the fave for club 18, if it wasn't already.
Personally Id like to see NRL do what they did in Brisbane. Announce the next team will be from Perth then invite bids. We could see some new and interesting bidders who haven't yet shown their interest.
Dickson has beat his chest about how the Bears will not change their song, colours, brand or anything else and demanding games be played at NSO under ownership from North Sydney. By making those stupid comments he's alienated every prospective investor from Perth.

I hate to say it, but how do we expand to Perth, Adelaide, NZ 2, NZ 3 and Bris 3 when there's just one spot available?

If we keep the status quo then four of those spots will miss out so that Sydney can have have more teams than it is able to support. There's little indication of our game moving to 20 teams before 2050, if at all.

There's no guarantee that future broadcast rights deal will be so high. FTA is dying and Foxtel is over $2 billion in debt and losing subscribers. Kayo isn't bringing in enough money to cover the cost of the content they have. I'll be surprised if Foxtel exists in 10 years. If we lose Foxtel and FTA continues to dwindle into obscurity then our broadcast deals will go backwards. That will mean a reduction in the annual grant because the money won't be there. The RLPA won't want the salary cap reduced and will strike if salaries are cut just to keep unviable Sydney clubs afloat. Our players have option in onionball and Super League. It's only a matter of time until our game is brought back to reality and it'll happen sooner rather than later. When it happens it'll be 1998 all over again.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,067
Dickson has beat his chest about how the Bears will not change their song, colours, brand or anything else and demanding games be played at NSO under ownership from North Sydney. By making those stupid comments he's alienated every prospective investor from Perth.

I hate to say it, but how do we expand to Perth, Adelaide, NZ 2, NZ 3 and Bris 3 when there's just one spot available?

If we keep the status quo then four of those spots will miss out so that Sydney can have have more teams than it is able to support. There's little indication of our game moving to 20 teams before 2050, if at all.

There's no guarantee that future broadcast rights deal will be so high. FTA is dying and Foxtel is over $2 billion in debt and losing subscribers. Kayo isn't bringing in enough money to cover the cost of the content they have. I'll be surprised if Foxtel exists in 10 years. If we lose Foxtel and FTA continues to dwindle into obscurity then our broadcast deals will go backwards. That will mean a reduction in the annual grant because the money won't be there. The RLPA won't want the salary cap reduced and will strike if salaries are cut just to keep unviable Sydney clubs afloat. Our players have option in onionball and Super League. It's only a matter of time until our game is brought back to reality and it'll happen sooner rather than later. When it happens it'll be 1998 all over again.
Listen deadshit, there isn't just one spot available, there's unlimited spots, your narrow mind cant fathom that, its about time and choice of placement, no point putting a team in Adelaide when they aren't playing it at junior levels, like perth, nz, and png are, otherwise we are better of just relocating teams rather than expansion
Seriously dude you're on the wrong threads, keep harping on about rationalization instead of expansion
 
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flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,229
From my standpoint here in in New Zealand (woefully under-supplied with top tier RL), I find the continuing bickering over Sydney rationalization - here, and in other RL forums & pages - fascinating.

If only some of you knew what it was like to be in a city with *maybe* one top tier game a year.
(If you're lucky.)
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,067
From my standpoint here in in New Zealand (woefully under-supplied with top tier RL), I find the continuing bickering over Sydney rationalization - here, and in other RL forums & pages - fascinating.

If only some of you knew what it was like to be in a city with *maybe* one top tier game a year.
(If you're lucky.)
But you are able to watch 16 teams play each week on tv tho? Yes live games are great, but you cant expect the NRL to be the quality it is if it was 3-4 clubs in every city in and around Aus and Nz... half the reason the NRL is so good is due to the bulk of derbies in and around sydney and them playing against the expansion teams
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,229
But you are able to watch 16 teams play each week on tv tho? Yes live games are great, but you cant expect the NRL to be the quality it is if it was 3-4 clubs in every city in and around Aus and Nz... half the reason the NRL is so good is due to the bulk of derbies in and around sydney and them playing against the expansion teams
3-4 clubs in every city?!?

The only cities that need 3 or more clubs IMO are Sydney (I'd say GROTD's idea and reduce by 3 clubs) and maybe Brisbane (Broncos, Dolphins & a third in south/west as Dolphins skew north/east - if the Firehawks were chosen, a 3rd wouldnt be needed)

All the rest - Melbourne Perth, Adelaide, Christchurch, Wellington - just need ONE team each, until (unless?) player/coaching depth can accommodate a derby team in SOME of those locations.
 
Messages
14,822
From my standpoint here in in New Zealand (woefully under-supplied with top tier RL), I find the continuing bickering over Sydney rationalization - here, and in other RL forums & pages - fascinating.

If only some of you knew what it was like to be in a city with *maybe* one top tier game a year.
(If you're lucky.)
The huge crowd at Mt Smart Stadium showed us how much potential there is in New Zealand. It's in everyone's best interest to increase the Warriors' salary cap by $1m so they can have a chance in the player market. A Warriors team succeeding like the Storm over 10 or 15 years would draw sell out crowds in NZ and make them a must watch team in Australia. It would play on the Aussie vs Kiwi rivalry and add something to our game that AwFuL will never have. A second or even third NZ team would do so much more to narrow the gap between RU and RL in New Zealand. Sadly we won't get to see it until Sydney is rationalised. It's why I make no apologies about pushing for rationalisation in Sydney.
 
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14,822
3-4 clubs in every city?!?

The only cities that need 3 or more clubs IMO are Sydney (I'd say GROTD's idea and reduce by 3 clubs) and maybe Brisbane (Broncos, Dolphins & a third in south/west as Dolphins skew north/east - if the Firehawks were chosen, a 3rd wouldnt be needed)

All the rest - Melbourne Perth, Adelaide, Christchurch, Wellington - just need ONE team each, until (unless?) player/coaching depth can accommodate a derby team in SOME of those locations.
If we're lucky then Easts Tigers will buy into the Dolphins to become the East Coast Dolphins and cover Moreton Bay, Logan, Brisbane's eastern suburbs and Redland. Broncos would be wise to let Ipswich buy a stake in their club to create a genuine rivalry between east and west.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,067
3-4 clubs in every city?!?

The only cities that need 3 or more clubs IMO are Sydney (I'd say GROTD's idea and reduce by 3 clubs) and maybe Brisbane (Broncos, Dolphins & a third in south/west as Dolphins skew north/east - if the Firehawks were chosen, a 3rd wouldnt be needed)

All the rest - Melbourne Perth, Adelaide, Christchurch, Wellington - just need ONE team each, until (unless?) player/coaching depth can accommodate a derby team in SOME of those locations.
In 20 years time people will whinge that there should be a 2nd team in Melbourne, but the game isn't waiting on other areas to grow their own clubs that can compete with whats already existing as the NRL today, thats the problem right there, we all say wheres perth?, but where is the club in perth putting fwd their bid to join the ranks of 1st grade .. they are are all seperate entities, and we as fans look to the media to hear what their plans are, but in reality fans expect the NRL to implement a team there.. and thats just not going to happen, you already need to be a club, running a rugby league team, then these folks at the arlc will hand you a license, they are not looking to set you up in a foregn market, coz if it fails its on them, but if you as a bidder have an already established club in Fremantle called perth pumas, and are boasting however many juniors etc they'll look at that moreso, all this garbage about cutting three teams in sydney, what are you going to replace them with? Another 2 woeful warriors like teams and a perth pirates that get belted 70 blot every week, thats not growing nor will it be expansion if you're just replacing club numbers, this is where grotd has this all wrong, if you take away teams, established teams, the quality of the overall league comp suffers, but if your just adding one or two clubs to whats already there, its fine, coz eventually the newer team will grow better within a quality comp...
 
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siv

First Grade
Messages
6,748
If we're lucky then Easts Tigers will buy into the Dolphins to become the East Coast Dolphins and cover Moreton Bay, Logan, Brisbane's eastern suburbs and Redland. Broncos would be wise to let Ipswich buy a stake in their club to create a genuine rivalry between east and west.
Time for Nth Qld, Broncos, Titans, Redcliffe, Storm and Warriors to form a breakaway league and invite Ipswich, Easts-Brisbane, Wynnum, Perth, Adelaide, Hunters and NZ2 to join
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
I never said the BRL could have become a national competition. You're deflecting because you don't have an argument.

NSWRL clubs drew about 9k in 1987.


In 1988 the two biggest clubs were Newcastle and Brisbane.


After 34 years of an expanded NSWRL we still don't have a truly national competition. Every other competition has a team in Perth and all but Super Rugby have a team in Adelaide. It's a sad indictment on our game and its backwards administrators. The idiots who run our game and its Sydney-centric media did not even consider Perth as a possibility until some wanker tied it to a failed NSWRL club that haven't been in the NRL in 23 years. This is why our game lags behind instead of truly dominating.

I assume you forgot we had a team in Perth in 1995, they would now be playing their 28th season had it not been for Super League. You know they were invited in by that Sydney-centric administration that also invited Nth Qld, Canberra, Illawarra, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Auckland, Sth Qld and Brisbane. The same administartion who started the game in Fiji and had it travelling nicely in South Africa.

That is until our game was hijacked.
 
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14,822
Time for Nth Qld, Broncos, Titans, Redcliffe, Storm and Warriors to form a breakaway league and invite Ipswich, Easts-Brisbane, Wynnum, Perth, Adelaide, Hunters and NZ2 to join
Yes, please do!

ARL went to court to stop it from happening in 1995 because the Sydney clubs would die without the expansion clubs. Super League drew higher attendances than ARL in 1997.
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
Time for Nth Qld, Broncos, Titans, Redcliffe, Storm and Warriors to form a breakaway league and invite Ipswich, Easts-Brisbane, Wynnum, Perth, Adelaide, Hunters and NZ2 to join

So you want another Super League do you?
 
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14,822
I assume you forgot we had a team in Perth in 1995, they would now be playing their 28th season had it not been for Super League. You know they were invited in by that Sydney-centric administration that also invited Nth Qld, Canberra, Illawarra, Gold Coast, Newcastle, Auckland, Sth Qld and Brisbane. The same administartion who started the game in Fiji and had it travelling nicely in South Africa.

That is until our game was hijacked.
This is revisionist bullshit and wrong on every level. ARL forced the four expansion clubs to cover travel and accommodation of all clubs they hosted because the Sydney clubs were broke and the ARL was only getting $10m per annum from Packer for the Ch9/Optus Vision broadcast rights. The costs forced Cowboys, Reds and Warriors to sign with Super League to avoid bankruptcy. Crushers weren't wanted by Super League. In summary, Arthurson and Quayle gave broke arse Sydney clubs an unfair advantage over the four expansion clubs, then ran around pretending they were backstabbed. They got exactly what they deserved for setting all four clubs up to fail and playing favourites with Sydney clubs that were on death's door.
 

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,748
So you want another Super League do you?
Everyone one wants to play in Qld and Qlders dont want NSW teams

So let them go off and play

We could always play a Australasian championship final after the Grand Final

Solves a lot of expansion problems
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,969
This is revisionist bullshit and wrong on every level. ARL forced the four expansion clubs to cover travel and accommodation of all clubs they hosted because the Sydney clubs were broke and the ARL was only getting $10m per annum from Packer for the Ch9/Optus Vision broadcast rights. The costs forced Cowboys, Reds and Warriors to sign with Super League to avoid bankruptcy. Crushers weren't wanted by Super League. In summary, Arthurson and Quayle gave broke arse Sydney clubs an unfair advantage over the four expansion clubs, then ran around pretending they were backstabbed. They got exactly what they deserved for setting all four clubs up to fail and playing favourites with Sydney clubs that were on death's door.

Why would they invite 4 clubs in to send them broke.
 

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