WA BEARS

[flippikat]

The Pasifika Bear's would be a very new different concept of the future. Could be a pathway feeder systems growths club for the whole NRL unearthing juniors from the south pacific
Same as the Southern Orcas using 4 stadiums. Creating juniors pathways
From the juniors grassroots
The future are the juniors

Yeah, the future is juniors - if we want 20 or more teams (which frankly is necessary to capitalize on the big population centres we haven't covered yet - unless Sydney rationalizes further), then we need to crank up junior pathways so those expansion teams have talent & competition depth isn't strained too much.

BUT that doesn't mean we need top tier teams in places that economically can't support them - that's definitely PNG, and a Pacific team is very borderline.

 

[flippikat]

The only way the Bears makes any sense to me is if they are in Gosford and maybe play a couple of games a year in N Sydney. All this other Pacifica and Perth stuff is just absolute nonsense!

On that assumption, the question then becomes "Does Gosford offer more than Brisbane 3, NZ 2, Perth, heck even Adelaide?"

We only have 3 spots for expansion to take us to 20 teams - and if that's the limit for now, it's very much open to debate whether Gosford/Central Coast would make the top 3 in our list of expansion options.

 

[blue bags]

About 45% of NRL players are of Pacific. Indigenous. Or Maori. Heritage
So it makes sense to have grassroots juniors pathways feeder systems in every area of Australia. Pacific. NZ .

 

[flippikat]

About 45% of NRL players are of Pacific. Indigenous. Or Maori. Heritage
So it makes sense to have grassroots juniors pathways feeder systems in every area of Australia. Pacific. NZ .

Problem is that when you look at the Pacific Islands and NZ, strictly speaking it's outside the scope of the NRL - which I believe is just mandated to grow the game in Australia (OK, all criticism about them doing little in AFL states aside..).

 

[final say]

On that assumption, the question then becomes "Does Gosford offer more than Brisbane 3, NZ 2, Perth, heck even Adelaide?"

We only have 3 spots for expansion to take us to 20 teams - and if that's the limit for now, it's very much open to debate whether Gosford/Central Coast would make the top 3 in our list of expansion options.

Central Coast has a bigger population , bigger area and bigger growth rate than Cronulla, Penrith or Wollongong- fast approaching a half a million people. Bloody shame it doesn't have a team! So much potential.
But you're right, there's other areas with greater potential! And the reality is they can still commute to games and follow other clubs.
Sydney's a mess.

 

[Ideas Man Stephen]

On that assumption, the question then becomes "Does Gosford offer more than Brisbane 3, NZ 2, Perth, heck even Adelaide?"

We only have 3 spots for expansion to take us to 20 teams - and if that's the limit for now, it's very much open to debate whether Gosford/Central Coast would make the top 3 in our list of expansion options.

It’s a good question and very much the right one. I would debate CC value any day. As far as creating pathways and opportunity to demonstrably grow the NRL market, I would take CC Bears over Brisbane III any day. Brisbane has no real need to be diluted further any time soon.

For me, those three teams you are looking for are Perth, NZII and CC.

 

[MugaB]

It’s a good question and very much the right one. I would debate CC value any day. As far as creating pathways and opportunity to demonstrably grow the NRL market, I would take CC Bears over Brisbane III any day. Brisbane has no real need to be diluted further any time soon.

For me, those three teams you are looking for are Perth, NZII and CC.

So Brisbane or seq has 3 teams nearby and a 4th would dilute it, but CC with 9 Sydney teams and Newy nearby (all up 10 clubs) is the choice coz it wont dilute...
Gotcha!!!

 

[Iamback]

On that assumption, the question then becomes "Does Gosford offer more than Brisbane 3, NZ 2, Perth, heck even Adelaide?"

We only have 3 spots for expansion to take us to 20 teams - and if that's the limit for now, it's very much open to debate whether Gosford/Central Coast would make the top 3 in our list of expansion options.

CC should be right down the list BUT should be higher than Adelaide. They are way way down the bottom

 

[Iamback]

Problem is that when you look at the Pacific Islands and NZ, strictly speaking it's outside the scope of the NRL - which I believe is just mandated to grow the game in Australia (OK, all criticism about them doing little in AFL states aside..).

It is out of the scope but that is where the future of the game is. What is going to gain more for the game dropping $3m in Fiji or Adelaide?

So I have no problem with that being a side, Provided the business case stacks up of course

 

[Ideas Man Stephen]

So Brisbane or seq has 3 teams nearby and a 4th would dilute it, but CC with 9 Sydney teams and Newy nearby (all up 10 clubs) is the choice coz it wont dilute...
Gotcha!!!

Well, yeah, it’s not Sydney is it. It’s an hour north, just in the same way GC being an hour south isn’t diluting Brisbane.

Gosford is a self serving city in its own right and the surrounding area is very parochial to its CC identity. The Central Coast is an evermore affluent region and RL through and through. Furthermore, there is a strong nursery of juniors there who along with the NRL will immediately benefit from having a top tier professional club servicing the area.

 

[Brian potter]

What with all the terms of 4 non-negotiable conditions the bears are increasingly coming across as a Parasitoid with either Perth, pasifika or NZ2 as their hosts.

 

[The Great Dane]

On that assumption, the question then becomes "Does Gosford offer more than Brisbane 3, NZ 2, Perth, heck even Adelaide?"

We only have 3 spots for expansion to take us to 20 teams - and if that's the limit for now, it's very much open to debate whether Gosford/Central Coast would make the top 3 in our list of expansion options.

And the short answer to that is no, not even close. Perth, Adelaide, NZ2 and 3, Brisbane/SEQ 4 and probably 5, Melbourne 2, and debatably others as well, would all offer more than the CC.

There's no room or scope for a 11th team in NSW, especially not when any CC side would just effectively just act as a de facto North Sydney side anyway. It shouldn't seriously be in the discussion at all until Gosford's population is well above 500k, and even then it's difficult to justify it when the 10 other teams are all only about an hour away.

 

[MugaB]

Well, yeah, it’s not Sydney is it. It’s an hour north, just in the same way GC being an hour south isn’t diluting Brisbane.

Gosford is a self serving city in its own right and the surrounding area is very parochial to its CC identity. The Central Coast is an evermore affluent region and RL through and through. Furthermore, there is a strong nursery of juniors there who along with the NRL will immediately benefit from having a top tier professional club servicing the area.

Wollongng an hour south, penrith just under an hour west, Newcastle just under 2 hours north too...
I love your passion for CC, and the bears, but they shant be allowing another defacto Sydney club back in NSW, look to another city, Melbourne could share its 5 million pop, adelaide has 1.5m, there are options greater than CC

 

[Ideas Man Stephen]

And the short answer to that is no, not even close. Perth, Adelaide, NZ2 and 3, Brisbane/SEQ 4 and probably 5, Melbourne 2, and debatably others as well, would all offer more than the CC.

When you say all of those places would offer more, are you referring to:

Supporter base: CC would be higher than almost all of those.

More pathway talent: I would suggest CC higher than all except maybe NZII.

Backed better financially: A CC Bears side would probably be the best financially backed team of the lot, with more opportunity for immediate growth.

I disagree the CC Bears sits behind many of those destinations you highlighted. I actually think they find themselves easily in the top 3.

 

[Ideas Man Stephen]

Wollongng an hour south, penrith just under an hour west, Newcastle just under 2 hours north too...
I love your passion for CC, and the bears, but they shant be allowing another defacto Sydney club back in NSW, look to another city, Melbourne could share its 5 million pop, adelaide has 1.5m, there are options greater than CC

It’s all well and good saying Melbourne can share its 5m population but does the NRL want their own GWS style financial noose around their neck? I doubt it’s affordable and for what reason? Because there is a large population? That’s not reason enough to go there. It’s not even in the top 7 reasons for where you would set up a new team.

Apart from population (which is only a minor benefit anyway), what other metric is Adelaide going to outperform CC Bears? Immediate support? Pathways? Commercial viability? None of those. What else?

 

[Iamback]

It’s all well and good saying Melbourne can share its 5m population but does the NRL want their own GWS style financial noose around their neck? I doubt it’s affordable and for what reason? Because there is a large population? That’s not reason enough to go there. It’s not even in the top 7 reasons for where you would set up a new team.

Apart from population (which is only a minor benefit anyway), what other metric is Adelaide going to outperform CC Bears? Immediate support? Pathways? Commercial viability? None of those. What else?

Adelaide has no place in these discussions, The Toilets at Leichhardt Oval > Adelaide

 

[MugaB]

It’s all well and good saying Melbourne can share its 5m population but does the NRL want their own GWS style financial noose around their neck? I doubt it’s affordable and for what reason? Because there is a large population? That’s not reason enough to go there. It’s not even in the top 7 reasons for where you would set up a new team.

Apart from population (which is only a minor benefit anyway), what other metric is Adelaide going to outperform CC Bears? Immediate support? Pathways? Commercial viability? None of those. What else?

Pvl wants Melbourne2 , you watch he'll bend it till they break and accept that its the last offer the bears will get...
When you call gws a noose do you mean a team no one wants to follow, coz i don't think thats the bears,
They have the history and a strong brand, and followers, if they are willing to go to a Pacific island, why not another city that is as big as their sydney homeland, the Melbourne storm could use the derby and a push, just like the bronx got with redcliffe..
Having another presence in the largest rival market is PVls goal, why do you think he brang it up last year?

You know the only reason bears are even considering pasifika angle, is coz the PNG bid started off that way, after the bears tried to copy the dolphins model of being a roaming seq team, they thought they could do the same in NSW, but fkd that up too, coz there's already 10 clubs in NSW that could cater for the one off events that the bears thought they could provide in the country towns.

Mate if they just played it smart from the get go theyd be in the NRL already, pick a desolate destination that is void of rugby league and own it then build yourself as the team for that city...

Everyone like the perth joint venture with them coz they use the same colors, but truthfully perth are wanting thier own identity, as the pirates or reds, a relocation would probably be a slap in the face, to be honest Adelaide might feel the same with the 2 years of rams they had... Melbourne on the other hand already has a team, but is big enough to share the city with the growing islander population there too (of course the storm would be f**kwitz about sharing it, just as the cowboys are now with cairns/png) but it would garner more support and exposure, plus might actually boost the profile of RL in that city, not that will ever be no.1, but a stronger no.2 is far better than what they have now

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I cannot see a second Melbourne team being viable. It would be another GWS, but 100 times worse because the Storm aren't as culturally embedded in Melbourne as the Swans are in Sydney.

 

[MugaB]

I cannot see a second Melbourne team being viable. It would be another GWS, but 100 times worse because the Storm aren't as culturally embedded in Melbourne as the Swans are in Sydney.

I agree, but only not from scratch, a strong brand parachuted into the city with existing system would tho..yes they'd be the jealous folk who'd hate on it, but they simply wouldn't show up, your not looking to change everyones mind, and after a decade, no one will give 2 shits, if you look at how the swans started, its probably a similar path, although its probably easier nowadays since sporting franchises are fully professional, if the bears set up shop in Melbourne, just like how the NFL has Rams ove to LA or Raiders to LV

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I agree, but only not from scratch, a strong brand parachuted into the city with existing system would tho..yes they'd be the jealous folk who'd hate on it, but they simply wouldn't show up, your not looking to change everyones mind, and after a decade, no one will give 2 shits, if you look at how the swans started, its probably a similar path, although its probably easier nowadays since sporting franchises are fully professional, if the bears set up shop in Melbourne, just like how the NFL has Rams ove to LA or Raiders to LV

The club would need to play all 12 games in Melbourne to have any hope of being accepted by Victoriansm. Its odds of winning over Victorians are as low as a joint venture between Brisbane Tigers and North Sydney Bears being a hit in Brisbane.

My main take away from all this is the ARLC will need to invest a lot of resources in Adelaide, Melbourne and Perth if it wishes to grow a sizeable fanbase and player base in these markets. Storm are still treading water. The litmus test for them will be when their success dries up. Bellamy cannot go on forever. The other clubs are catching up with the Storm off the field.

I cannot see the ARLC investing in non-RL markets.