WA BEARS

[MugaB]

your ability to contextualize is sadly lacking.

of course it does, a large spend on NRL in an AFL state is much harder sell to the the public than an AFL spend in AFL state. Even then theres plenty in Tassie who are not happy about the Govt spend on the project, imagine if it was an NRL club they were trying to convince joe public they were going to spend big on lol

Im more than happy our Govt is going to spend $450mill providing the club the infrastructure it needs to be a success. They are assets for the State and have benefits in many ways. I also think public psending on kids sports is a good use of our money.

I wouldnt be very happy if they were giving a large chunk of money to the NRL to give to other clubs, or were using our money to prop up a prof sports club (and I dont care which code that was for), that shouldn't be what public money is used for.

Well that 12mil the tas afl team is getting looks very similar to what PVL is pork barrelling for the WA Bears...
I dont give two shìts about voter optics, whether it's in a an afl state or not... fact is they are both using tax payers money for a 1st grade team, whether it's that 12 mil per year, or stadium refurbishment, or coe build... tell me this genius... Why are they waiting for this nrl licence to do these investment on HBF park, shouldn't they already be doing it regardless? they have two codes sharing that site, wouldn't they be better off in a better stadium, with corporates and such, im sure twiggy would love a new suite to watch his beloved force.., im sure glory would love to use a coe to run laps, and new gym equipment. answer is, they didn't believe cumins could pull it off, so why bother when the "other" codes are not voter worthy

 

[Perth Red]

The overall inflation is 18% between 2020 and 2024. Meaning a $250m stadium is built now for $295m. I said $350m for new build. None of this changes the fact that the additional works at HBF can be done for $200m.

Now you dont sound like you're in the building trade at all, the building cost spiral has not mirrored inflation in any way shape or form. Reports have it at 30-40%+ in last 5 years. But we dont need to spcualte. Penroth new build was estimated at $800mill for 30k seats and they have ended up budgeting $310mill for two stands. Here ends the argument.

Please do tell us what the new works plan is at HBF, you've clearly seen what's been proposed!

 

[Iamback]

And even including their sposoprship Wests Tigers run at a loss and get a grant from Wests Ashfiled to cover it. They dont run at a profit and I doubt they arnt the only ones.
On top of that west ashfield fund balmains juniors and wests campbelltown fund wests juniors. Wests Tigers dont fund their juniors.

But back to your point, not all clubs run at a profit.

And even including their sposoprship Wests Tigers run at a loss and get a grant from Wests Ashfiled to cover it. They dont run at a profit and I doubt they arnt the only ones.
On top of that west ashfield fund balmains juniors and wests campbelltown fund wests juniors. Wests Tigers dont fund their juniors.

But back to your point, not all clubs run at a profit.

Now look at why Tigers didn't make a profit last year.

They don't sack their coach and Recruitment manager. They make a small profit

That is after back to back spoons and in a market shared with 8 other teams.

New markets won't have this issue, Their issue is the lack of facilities

 

[Wb1234]

Now you dont sound like you're in the building trade at all, the building cost spiral has not mirrored inflation in any way shape or form. Reports have it at 30-40%+ in last 5 years. But we dont need to spcualte. Penroth new build was estimated at $800mill for 30k seats and they have ended up budgeting $310mill for two stands. Here ends the argument.

Please do tell us what the new works plan is at HBF, you've clearly seen what's been proposed!

Maybe 30 percent rise but over 7 years

Most of the increase occurred when the war in Ukraine started and America put sanctions on Russia

Lots of timber in Australia comes from Russia so that went up heaps as did the price of oil at the same time

 

[Iamback]

Now you dont sound like you're in the building trade at all, the building cost spiral has not mirrored inflation in any way shape or form. Reports have it at 30-40%+ in last 5 years. But we dont need to spcualte. Penroth new build was estimated at $800mill for 30k seats and they have ended up budgeting $310mill for two stands. Here ends the argument.

Please do tell us what the new works plan is at HBF, you've clearly seen what's been proposed!

Again look at the Penrith plans knocked back, It was going to be glorious.

Penrith plans are out in the public domain. Not sure HBF needs all of that

 

[Iamback]

The club will fund the elite pathways, the WA govt will fund jnr and female participation programs.

And other sports don't have school programs for example funded by the govt?

For example this logo here would suggest the government funds soccer programs over there

 

[Bukowski]

Now look at why Tigers didn't make a profit last year.

They don't sack their coach and Recruitment manager. They make a small profit

That is after back to back spoons and in a market shared with 8 other teams.

New markets won't have this issue, Their issue is the lack of facilities

I was just stating out that not all teams make a profit.

 

[Perth Red]

Well that 12mil the tas afl team is getting looks very similar to what PVL is pork barrelling for the WA Bears...
I dont give two shìts about voter optics, whether it's in a an afl state or not... fact is they are both using tax payers money for a 1st grade team, whether it's that 12 mil per year, or stadium refurbishment, or coe build... tell me this genius... Why are they waiting for this nrl licence to do these investment on HBF park, shouldn't they already be doing it regardless? they have two codes sharing that site, wouldn't they be better off in a better stadium, with corporates and such, im sure twiggy would love a new suite to watch his beloved force.., im sure glory would love to use a coe to run laps, and new gym equipment. answer is, they didn't believe cumins could pull it off, so why bother when the "other" codes are not voter worthy

you really asking why the govt isnt spending $350mill now on a stadium that is currently fit for purpose for its two tenants? And no neither of the current two codes needs, or can justify, a better stadium than they currently have. Neither of them avg more than 9k crowds.

Soccer got a $46mill centre of excellence built for it 2 years ago and WA govt built Force a HQ many years ago at perry lakes.

Like I said the AFL are putting in $10 million towards the high-performance complex, $33 million towards junior development and a $93 million funding boost for grassroots in tassie as part of the deal that has seen the Tassie govt agree to fund the club $12mill a year for 12 years. Maybe if NRL was offering something to WA instead of just asking for $'s the WA govt might feel more comfortable funding the club directly?
Or maybe they have a very different mind set about what public money should be spent on.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Now you dont sound like you're in the building trade at all, the building cost spiral has not mirrored inflation in any way shape or form. Reports have it at 30-40%+ in last 5 years. But we dont need to spcualte. Penroth new build was estimated at $800mill for 30k seats and they have ended up budgeting $310mill for two stands. Here ends the argument.

Please do tell us what the new works plan is at HBF, you've clearly seen what's been proposed!

Rubbish mate, I built a 7 storey medical hub in 2020 for $41m and an almost identical like for like this year for $55m.

Used the exact same earthworks, formwork, precast, structural steel, post tension, concrete and supply, blockwork, roofing, services etc for the structure shell. Only difference was the Fitout company that we used.

That doesn’t equal this huge disparity you’re talking about. If companies are pricing things almost double the value then there’s two glaring issues - their margin is huge (probably over 15%-20%) and their preliminaries are through the roof.

The Coomera hospital on the Gold Coast was originally estimated at $1.66b and they can build the exact same design for $1.3b.

Good estimators are hard to find and it seems whoever it doing it in WA don’t have the experience or expertise to actually price and deliver something for its proper value.

I’m sure there will be people taking home a fat cut of that $300m for the proposed upgrades and that will have nothing to do with the actual build.

 

[Perth Red]

And other sports don't have school programs for example funded by the govt?

For example this logo here would suggest the government funds soccer programs over there

eh? No one has said they dont, in fact I explicitly said they do fund jnrs across codes, they also fund centres of excellence across codes and they also fund stadiums. All appropriate ways of contributing to a codes growth using public money.
What they dont do is directly fund professional sports clubs.

 

[Wb1234]

you really asking why the govt isnt spending $350mill now on a stadium that is currently fit for purpose for its two tenants? And no neither of the current two codes needs, or can justify, a better stadium than they currently have. Neither of them avg more than 9k crowds.

Soccer got a $46mill centre of excellence built for it 2 years ago and WA govt built Force a HQ many years ago at perry lakes.

Like I said the AFL are putting in $10 million towards the high-performance complex, $33 million towards junior development and a $93 million funding boost for grassroots in tassie as part of the deal that has seen the Tassie govt agree to fund the club $12mill a year for 12 years. Maybe if NRL was offering something to WA instead of just asking for $'s the WA govt might feel more comfortable funding the club directly?
Or maybe they have a very different mind set about what public money should be spent on.

Apparently the nrl are offering 50 million of their own funds into the bid (or were two weeks ago)

 

[Perth Red]

Rubbish mate, I built a 7 storey medical hub in 2020 for $41m and an almost identical like for like this year for $55m.

Used the exact same earthworks, formwork, precast, structural steel, post tension, concrete and supply, blockwork, roofing, services etc for the structure shell. Only difference was the Fitout company was different.

That doesn’t equal this huge disparity you’re talking about. If companies are pricing things almost double the value then there’s two glaring issues - their margin is huge (probably over 15%-20%) and their preliminaries are through the roof.

The Coomera hospital on the Gold Coast was originally estimated at $1.66b and they can build the exact same design for $1.3b.

Good estimators are hard to find and it seems whoever it doing it in WA don’t have the experience or expertise to actually price and deliver something for its proper value.

I’m sure there’s people taking home a fat cut of that $300m for the reposted upgrades that have nothing to do with the build.

ok so I ask you again why is Penrith spending $310mil on two stands instead of spending less then $300mill building a 27,500 brand new stadium?

 

[Perth Red]

Apparently the nrl are offering 50 million of their own funds into the bid (or were two weeks ago)

Where have you got that from?

 

[Wb1234]

Rubbish mate, I built a 7 storey medical hub in 2020 for $41m and an almost identical like for like this year for $55m.

Used the exact same earthworks, formwork, precast, structural steel, post tension, concrete and supply, blockwork, roofing, services etc for the structure shell. Only difference was the Fitout company that we used.

That doesn’t equal this huge disparity you’re talking about. If companies are pricing things almost double the value then there’s two glaring issues - their margin is huge (probably over 15%-20%) and their preliminaries are through the roof.

The Coomera hospital on the Gold Coast was originally estimated at $1.66b and they can build the exact same design for $1.3b.

Good estimators are hard to find and it seems whoever it doing it in WA don’t have the experience or expertise to actually price and deliver something for its proper value.

I’m sure there’s people taking home a fat cut of that $300m for the reposted upgrades that have nothing to do with the build.

Hutchinsons work off 30 percent plus
I know tier one but still

 

[Iamback]

eh? No one has said they dont, in fact I explicitly said they do fund jnrs across codes, they also fund centres of excellence across codes and they also fund stadiums. All appropriate ways of contributing to a codes growth using public money.
What they dont do is directly fund professional sports clubs.

Yes and I specifically said WA Govt aren't going to directly pay players or the club.

Same as the $600m for PNG isn't going all to the club

 

[Wb1234]

Where have you got that from?

My inbox lol

 

[MugaB]

you really asking why the govt isnt spending $350mill now on a stadium that is currently fit for purpose for its two tenants? And no neither of the current two codes needs, or can justify, a better stadium than they currently have. Neither of them avg more than 9k crowds.

Soccer got a $46mill centre of excellence built for it 2 years ago and WA govt built Force a HQ many years ago at perry lakes.

Like I said the AFL are putting in $10 million towards the high-performance complex, $33 million towards junior development and a $93 million funding boost for grassroots in tassie as part of the deal that has seen the Tassie govt agree to fund the club $12mill a year for 12 years. Maybe if NRL was offering something to WA instead of just asking for $'s the WA govt might feel more comfortable funding the club directly?
Or maybe they have a very different mind set about what public money should be spent on.

So you're OK with the WA government funding it directly, under terms, and Tasmanian Afl team getting underwritten (again under terms)
but not the fed government funding PNG for 10 years, or moana pacifika or Fiji bati etc,
...seriously Make up your mind, I thought you like politis, now it's all why are we made to pay a license fee on top of our non existing 30mil, and empty Govt promises

 

[Red&BlackBear]

Hutchinsons work off 30 percent plus
I know tier one but still

No they don’t, not even close to it. What they do is they win a shitload of jobs and then they’ll make anywhere from 1% to 6% on them and whatever job is failing is propped up by a job that’s making money.

 

[Perth Red]

My inbox lol

Hmmm.
ok lets say they are willing to put up the $30mill start up costs and the $20mill hand out to the other clubs. Whats the $12mill a year for a decade govt ask for? Whats that going to fund?

 

[MugaB]

ok so I ask you again why is Penrith spending $310mil on two stands instead of spending less then $300mill building a 27,500 brand new stadium?

Reason was they had to buy the land next door to do it, as it was never going to fit in the area used by the stadium right now, and buying the paceway, plus relocating it, was going to cost the whole project triple, so they settled to revamping the current stadium as is, and give it updated facilities and a better roof and seating