We are in the minority

[Magpies Forever]

Absolutely, and Lui was developing into an excellent young half back. The irony is that he was lambasted on this and other forums last year (I know you were a staunch defender of his).

Who was Sheens supposed to select as halfback this year? Marshall to 7 is a failure, but who is the alternative? People have suggested Miller, but perhaps Sheens doesn't believe Miller is a first grade halfback? Should he pick him anyway?

Incidentally, the commentary on this forum surrounding the non-selection of Miller illustrates my issues with some of Sheens' critics. There are these unfounded and unsourced allegations that Sheens only selects the cool kids, and Miller isn't one of these cool kids. The inference then is that Sheens prefers to pick players he likes (or that stroke his ego) than he does winning football games. I think that's absurd.

Sheens certainly seems to have very rigid ideas about what each of his players is capable of. Sometimes he is generous with his estimations, and sometimes he is harsh. In my opinion though, it is absurd to suggest he conciously (or even unconciously) makes selections based on who he likes rather than who he believes is the best person for the job.

Mate, you're being a bit illogical here. The halfback option was best suited to Moltzen, but will you admit that Sheens has had a hard on for years to make Benji into a halfback rather than 5/8 despite all evidence (based on match results) that Benji does not best suit halfback role. Also, Sheens does seem to have displayed a continued thinking for many seasons that a specialist halfback is of no value to him. Yes, Lui was being groomed but he was originally a 5/8 too if memory serves me correctly

Also please explain his continued trait of convuluting the team into contortions with switiching 3,4 or 5 players into different positions to cover an injured player than simply replacing the missing player with someone from lower grades. If you say he considers no-one from lower grades capable, you are defeating those who argue he has a great track record of bringing on talent.

I dont wish ill upon Sheens, I just honestly think he has done his dash with the team and fresh ideas and persepective is needed. Sheens recruited the players on the WT roster, he has trained them and coached them. If they fail to live up to expectations, yes, the players have to take a share of the blame but Sheens cannot escape it too. Who does the buck stop with if not him?

 

[Tiger05]

There has been a lot of unnessecary rubbish thrown in. There have been very few posters maintaining any semblance of objectivity. The truth of it is that I want a new coach, I think it's time; and yet I come in here and I'm immediately uncertain when I see who my allies are.

Its a good point.

Personally I don't blame the coach and I think the coaching situation can get a lot worse. To add to that I have supported the Tigers for a long time and I do not see our situation as being that bad.

In saying that we have a good playing roster and the coach needs to be accountable for getting the most out of the players. This season must be a big mark against renewing Sheens contract and the club should be looking for alternatives. I do not though want to see a reactionary approach. I want to see a calm controlled move towards obtaining a new coach. Sheens has been here a long time and surely there are good options out there. I don't want to see a dickhead like Stuart at the club. I want to see someone who is good with the media and who is also a professional coach - someone who can get the most out of the players at his disposal without being a whinging whining dickhead.

 

[Tiger05]

There are these unfounded and unsourced allegations that Sheens only selects the cool kids, and Miller isn't one of these cool kids. The inference then is that Sheens prefers to pick players he likes (or that stroke his ego) than he does winning football games. I think that's absurd.

It is absurd. It is also f**ken stupid. Seriously people that state this should really get themselves seen too.

There are another couple of really dumb viewpoints out there as well, top of which to my mind are:-

1. Benji picks the team and manages recruitment.
2. Folkes secretly coached the team and that led to us winning games.

I get that the club hasn't performed and the coach should be accountable. I don't get delusional bullshit that punters mouth off.

 

[Magpie Tragic]

It's called a use by date, everybody has one even the great Jack Gibson had one. Time for Sheens to move on and let the board inject some much needed fresh coaching blood and restore some pride back into the club. Thanks for 2005 Tim, all the best in the future... see ya

 

[hybrid_tiger]

Who was Sheens supposed to select as halfback this year? Marshall to 7 is a failure, but who is the alternative? People have suggested Miller, but perhaps Sheens doesn't believe Miller is a first grade halfback? Should he pick him anyway?

Sheens simply had to decide on a player and stick with him. Whether it be Miller or Humble.

If Sheens deemed Moltzen as the best fullback option after Tedesco (arguable in itself), then he needed to pick a halfback and stick with that halfback for the rest of the year.

Of course neither Miller nor Humble would be as effective as Lui, but Humble for example did nothing wrong at halfback earlier in the year yet was punted and never seen again. Why?

If Sheens doesn't believe Miller is a first grade halfback, then why did he buy him in the first place?
If Marshall is a failure at halfback, then why does Sheens keep persisting with him there?
If Sheens doesn't believe Humble is a first grader, then why did he buy him in the first place?

You can blame injuries, but at the end of the day Sheens managed them poorly. To have nine different halves combinations in one season is utterly ridiculous. In that time, we've had ONE injury in the halves (Sironen) and ONE fullback injured (Tedesco). Both are rookies. I just don't honestly see how you can pin all the blame on injuries. The issue is how Sheens reacted to them.

How are you expected to see any continuity whatsoever when your halves keep changing every second week?

As for Miller, in my opinion he's never been given a proper go. I wouldn't have a clue why, but I'd love to know.

If Sheens honestly believes the players he's used in the halves this season (Farah, Lawrence, Ayshford, Fulton etc.) were the best people for the job then that is ludicrous and you have to question his coaching.

 

[madunit]

Given Moltzen trained all off season at halfback shows that Moltzen should have been halfback all year.

And if we go back to the start of this year, removing hindsight, in 2011, Ryan and Meaney had both filled in at fullback, Ryan actually performed better there last year then he did on the wing (he was also better at fullback last year than this year as well)

Those 2 options still existed if we were to lose our fullback at any point in time in 2012.

Benji and Moltzen have always clicked well when in the halves. In my own opinion, I think Moltzen at 7 works better purely because his passing game from first receiver shits all over Benji's, he also knew how to put Benji outside his defender which is all Benji needs to create tries. We didn't win a shitload of games in a row with Moltzen at 7 purely by fluke.

Its no surprise that Moltzen and Benji are close and have a good combination. We should have been maximising that combo all year in the middle of the park.

I was a staunch critic of Lui, mostly because of his defence. I don't expect him to smash blokes, but I do expect him to stick when he attempts a tackle, something that he started doing quite well at the end of last season, when he actually started looking very good.

His off field issues saw him punted and rightfully so.

That aside, Moltzen should have stayed at 7 all year. Stability in the halves is vital.

That simple decision would have been enough to see us play for more consistently.

Instead we had several players moved all over these key positions, weaking the teams attack all across the park, which has resulted in our lopsided inconsistent season.

Every time we stuck with a halves combo, we started to improve slightly, and then it'd change and we'd go back to square one.

 

[Matchball]

The whole moltzen in the halves talk is now over. It's all good to look back but when Anasta is coming in 2013 where will moltzen fit into the team? This is a valid question.
He is a liability but he will still be squeezed in at the expense of someone better.

Can't see him getting a wing spot so I think he might get bumped into the centres at the expense of either Lawrence or Ayshford.
Where does he fit in the squad for 2013 and beyond?

 

[madunit]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if he is Fullback.

 

[benched tiger]

Every one on this forum is a WT supporter with views and opinions on what might be best for our team to achieve the ultimate prize come season end,having a different outlook on a subject does not make you any less a supporter than someone who disagrees with you.
I for one believe Sheens has benefited our club during his time as coach,but for our club to progress from his guidance he needs to either step away altogether or change his style of coaching.
Injuries are unfortunate but you can not blame them entirely on our position,an example being Tedesco,the kid has only played 1/2 game and is not yet proven in the NRL,yet his injury is often blamed for the selection issues we have each week with our backline!Seriously its a lame excuse that shows there is an element of denial and accountability at the WT.
Complacency,staleness,instability and inconsistency have crept into our club, these areas can all be addressed by our coach if he is prepared to share blame for 2012.

 

[Tiger05]

It's called a use by date, everybody has one even the great Jack Gibson had one. Time for Sheens to move on and let the board inject some much needed fresh coaching blood and restore some pride back into the club. Thanks for 2005 Tim, all the best in the future... see ya

The thing is this makes sense. Its logical.

 

[brooksy19]

What do we know, we're just 'So called fans' and because we don't agree with the direction of the club, we're not entitled to hold an opinion.

This isn't supposed to be a dictatorship this is a club, where members have rights.

Last time we got in a similar position Robbie Farah almost left the club, because like us, he didn't like the direction it was headed.

Well guess who's off contract next year? I'm pretty sure he's gonna get flooded with offers and he's not going to want to spend his last contract at a club thats going south.

Look at Luke Lewis.

 

[Tiger05]

Given Moltzen trained all off season at halfback shows that Moltzen should have been halfback all year.

This was a c**k-up in my opinion.

Personally I think Ryan on the weekend showed why Moltzen is a better fullback option than him but it weakens too many key positions moving Moltzen back to 1.

Ryan would also have gone better if he was left there all season.

 

[madunit]

Shifting Moltzen to 1 so quickly essentially rendered an entire off-seasons worth of training pointless.

Thats possibly the biggest f**k up of all.

all positional f**k ups since then have stemmed from this dopey decision, which Sheens had plenty of time to recity but waited over 20 weeks and several injuries before considering it.

 

[hybrid_tiger]

What do we know, we're just 'So called fans' and because we don't agree with the direction of the club, we're not entitled to hold an opinion.

This isn't supposed to be a dictatorship this is a club, where members have rights.

Last time we got in a similar position Robbie Farah almost left the club, because like us, he didn't like the direction it was headed.

Well guess who's off contract next year? I'm pretty sure he's gonna get flooded with offers and he's not going to want to spend his last contract at a club thats going south.

Look at Luke Lewis.

I do have some concerns regarding Farah. He is a winner and does not accept or take too kindly to losing.

If we lost him I would never forgive the club.

 

[madunit]

When we first signed Iosefa, knowing we already had Politoni, my first reaction was "I don't think Farah is happy anymore here"

f**k I hope I'm very very wrong there.

 

[Matchball]

I do have some concerns regarding Farah. He is a winner and does not accept or take too kindly to losing.

If we lost him I would never forgive the club.

It's more than likely now that Ricky went to Parramatta with free reign to rebuild the club.
They have a good relationship from origin and Sheens and Robbie have been on the outer since not getting a run on the kangaroo tour.

I also would be furious if they don't make him a tiger for life.

 

[R2Coupe]

My issue all along has been the absence of objectivity on behalf of many of the posters on the forum.

The personal attacks on players and the coach is certainly disgraceful and those of you who have participated in this behaviour really need to have a good look at yourselves.

Face the fact Sheens has another 2 years to go on his contract. It is likely during this time we will witness the emergence of fine young talent including badly needed halves.

The loss of Lui has had a huge impact on the team and any arrangement to replace him was nothing more than reactive. Fair minded supporters realise the loss of Lui at such a late date would have an enormouse impact on the performance of the team. Anything which occurs after that is purely after the fact.

 

[Tiger05]

My issue all along has been the absence of objectivity on behalf of many of the posters on the forum.

The personal attacks on players and the coach is certainly disgraceful and those of you who have participated in this behaviour really need to have a good look at yourselves.

Face the fact Sheens has another 2 years to go on his contract. It is likely during this time we will witness the emergence of fine young talent including badly needed halves.

The loss of Lui has had a huge impact on the team and any arrangement to replace him was nothing more than reactive. Fair minded supporters realise the loss of Lui at such a late date would have an enormouse impact on the performance of the team. Anything which occurs after that is purely after the fact.

This is all correct. To add to these points there is no reason that the next two years will be bad years.

 

[Ron's_Mate]

My issue all along has been the absence of objectivity on behalf of many of the posters on the forum.

The personal attacks on players and the coach is certainly disgraceful and those of you who have participated in this behaviour really need to have a good look at yourselves.

Face the fact Sheens has another 2 years to go on his contract. It is likely during this time we will witness the emergence of fine young talent including badly needed halves.

The loss of Lui has had a huge impact on the team and any arrangement to replace him was nothing more than reactive. Fair minded supporters realise the loss of Lui at such a late date would have an enormouse impact on the performance of the team. Anything which occurs after that is purely after the fact.

You're a Grade A goose, and the piffle you come out with doesn't merit a response.

 

[Flapper]

My issue all along has been the absence of objectivity on behalf of many of the posters on the forum.

The personal attacks on players and the coach is certainly disgraceful and those of you who have participated in this behaviour really need to have a good look at yourselves.

Face the fact Sheens has another 2 years to go on his contract. It is likely during this time we will witness the emergence of fine young talent including badly needed halves.

The loss of Lui has had a huge impact on the team and any arrangement to replace him was nothing more than reactive. Fair minded supporters realise the loss of Lui at such a late date would have an enormouse impact on the performance of the team. Anything which occurs after that is purely after the fact.

Will this fine young talent be played in their correct positions?