Welcome Back Luciano

[TheRev]

if Luc does not come off the bench in rd 1 I will drive to Broken Hill and drink 6 beers and eat a chicken Schnitzel

These double-negatives, I just want to make sure I have this correct so you have to follow through:

"If Luciano is in the starting 13 - you're getting jacked on 6 beers and a schnitty?"

 

[Belta]

You don’t know what I know. Youre making an assumption.

Answer these if you dare ( as it relates to NSW)

Do you know what an ADVO is?

Do you know who takes them out?

Do you why they take them out?

How many proposed orders are there on an ADVO?

How do you contest an ADVO?

What are the grounds for an ADVO-what do police have to prove?

Off you go, I’m looking forward to your responses.

Then I will give you the answers. If you don’t know, by your argument, you shouldn’t comment about these things.

But, I’m not minded to control what people say. They can say what they want within the LU rules

Say what you want, but be careful not to bully people because you have

Sorry I just re-read your post and read the attachment, which states Luc didn't consent rather the Magistrate made the Final Order after the charges were dropped. I think the point is still relevant that the club/nrl may like to impose such a ban but l there maybe legal reasons they can’t? Do you agree?

 

[redv13]

You don’t know what I know. Youre making an assumption.

Answer these if you dare ( as it relates to NSW)

Do you know what an ADVO is?

Do you know who takes them out?

Do you why they take them out?

How many proposed orders are there on an ADVO?

How do you contest an ADVO?

What are the grounds for an ADVO-what do police have to prove?

Off you go, I’m looking forward to your responses.

Then I will give you the answers. If you don’t know, by your argument, you shouldn’t comment about these things.

But, I’m not minded to control what people say. They can say what they want within the LU rules etc.

Say what you want, but be careful not to bully people because you have another view.

No offence but you bloody drove me round the bends with the whole Amone situation. Please don’t carry on about Luciano too. Let’s stick to footy and not uploading proofs of the offence, ADVO’s etc etc. Footy or go back to your own forum in Tigers land

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

I like the idea of this exclusion, be a good message but will it open some legal issues for the club/nrl ???

important to understand is that an
ADVO is a civil matter with the burden of proof being on the ‘balance of probability “, and as such can be consented to without admission. (and more often than not is) Which is essentially saying I’ll agree to the order but don’t agree with anything written in the application

Particularly common practice with standard orders,,mostly for practicality reasons, eg not having to attend court on atleast two further occasions)

essentially what ones agreeing to is to not do behaviour that if they did they would be charged for anyway ie don’t stalk, intimidate, harass, damage property etc etc

A constructive post. Here is some more info:

There are provisional, interim and final ADVOs.

There is up to 11 orders Police can seek, even some involving stopping you from going home and seeing kids. Even against the alleged victims wishes.

Some employers don’t like ADVOs.
Fighting an ADVO can go on for months.

Police essentially need to prove the event occurred and fear. But they can get an ADVO even if the alleged victim no longer fears the accused.

Now that Lucy has an ADVO, if it is alleged he breaches it, he will be arrested and can face gaol time.

Some people don’t like ADVOs because they are afraid of false reports.

No accused is better off with an ADVO than not having one, but many victims are, although people ignore ADVOs anyway.

Do what they want and get into trouble.

I think the NRL could introduce it. If players and clubs don’t like it, then don’t compete In the NRL. They all contract to follow NRL rules don’t they?

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

No offence but you bloody drove me round the bends with the whole Amone situation. Please don’t carry on about Luciano too. Let’s stick to footy and not uploading proofs of the offence, ADVO’s etc etc. Footy or go back to your own forum in Tigers land

No offence, but people seem interested in the situation, not just me.

You don’t have to read or agree with anything I say.

I’ve actually been pretty supportive of Lucy, I think he needs counselling help more than a smack in the head, but it’s a good opportunity to raise the issue of DV which the game should be much more involved with.

As you know, I think Amone should be in gaol!

As for Tigerland…not the best of forums for me atm. That’s how it goes.

I don’t mean to drive you around the bend. Footy starts soon!

 

[SnowDragon]

if Luc does not come off the bench in rd 1 I will drive to Broken Hill and drink 6 beers and eat a chicken Schnitzel

Can I come

 

[Belta]

A constructive post. Here is some more info:

There are provisional, interim and final ADVOs.

There is up to 11 orders Police can seek, even some involving stopping you from going home and seeing kids. Even against the alleged victims wishes.

Some employers don’t like ADVOs.
Fighting an ADVO can go on for months.

Police essentially need to prove the event occurred and fear. But they can get an ADVO even if the alleged victim no longer fears the accused.

Now that Lucy has an ADVO, if it is alleged he breaches it, he will be arrested and can face gaol time.

Some people don’t like ADVOs because they are afraid of false reports.

No accused is better off with an ADVO than not having one, but many victims are, although people ignore ADVOs anyway.

Do what they want and get into trouble.

I think the NRL could introduce it. If players and clubs don’t like it, then don’t compete In the NRL. They all contract to follow NRL rules don’t they?

Good post TSP, personally I like to be impartial with evidence of reported offences, and try to avoid commenting unless I have a thorough understanding of what took place, which can be different from what was alleged. I know little of this matter other than a withdrawn set of facts and a court imposed Final Order.
I have no idea of the legalities associated with restricting players based solely on an ADVO outcome but I would guess the club/nrl may face some legal opposition if they tried, I don’t think they could

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Good post TSP, personally I like to be impartial with evidence of reported offences, and try to avoid commenting unless I have a thorough understanding of what took place, which can be different from what was alleged. I know little of this matter other than a withdrawn set of facts and a court imposed Final Order.
I have no idea of the legalities associated with restricting players based solely on an ADVO outcome but I would guess the club/nrl may face some legal opposition if they tried, I don’t think they could

Thanks.

I just don’t think Police would pursue the ADVO if they didn’t have concerns.

And Lucy agreed to the order when he could have fought it and he’s well resourced to fight it.

But he agreed to it, because he felt he could benefit from it. No admissions and the rest!

The NRL got away with introducing no fault stand-down, I think they could move on a No ADVO WR ( “NAW”)!

Is it an unfair rule? I really don’t think so, but you may well be right, the courts could knock it down.

 

[Belta]

Thanks.

I just don’t think Police would pursue the ADVO if they didn’t have concerns.

And Lucy agreed to the order when he could have fought it.

The NRL got away with introducing no fault stand-down, I think they could move on a No ADVO WR ( “NAW”)!

ok sure I get your point, just a small correction, Luc couldn’t oppose the ADVO as it must of been made at the conclusion of a hearing the results of which were withdrawn charges, however a Magistrate can however impose a Final Order (despite the charges being W/D). I believe can occur as charges and avos have different Burden of proofs, the latter being lesser.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

ok sure I get your point, just a small correction, Luc couldn’t oppose the ADVO as it must of been made at the conclusion of a hearing the results of which were withdrawn charges, however a Magistrate can however impose a Final Order (despite the charges being W/D). I believe can occur as charges and avos have different Burden of proofs, the latter being lesser.

Mmm, I’ll have to check.

Matter withdrawn equals no evidence.

How can Her Honour make a finding on no evidence?

He could appeal that imposition couldn’t he?

What are your thought on it?

 

[blacksafake]

Is this the Judge Judy section

 

[Belta]

Mmm, I’ll have to check.

Matter withdrawn equals no evidence.

How can Her Honour make a finding on no evidence?

He could appeal that imposition couldn’t he?

What are your thought on it?

I can’t say specifically and very difficult to guess what occurred in this case, so not making any judgement or reference to this matter, but I can try and give a brief explanation of how or cases similar to this COULD happen

(One example could be and there are many variables of course) but a case could arise whereby police are called to a dv incident. Upon arrival information record information eg verbal disclosures, injuries or properTy damage , victim and/or witness statements,

Any admissions by alleged offender

A subsequent arrest and charge of a poi.

A court appearance after a not guilty plea.

One common outcome on hearing date is the non-attendance of victim and or witness, without the ability of the defence to cross examine the evidence, the charges are withdraw.

The burden of prove for the charges (which is beyond reasonable doubt) has not been able to be established, however the burden of proof is lesser for the making of an ADVO, (which is on “the balance of probability” ) That being that it has probably occurred. So Your Honour could imply from the call made by a neighbour, to the conversations and body language of parties at the scene, to damaged property, that a dv incident has taken place and the making of an order is necessary to protect one of the parties and in this case deems it appropriate to do so.

sorry if this is long winded, I tried to keep brief

 

[Belta]

Sorry also if poi wants to appeal the order made he/she will need to make an application to vary, seeking to withdraw the order.
Very difficult, another Magistrate would have to find the decision was wrong, which ain’t gunna happen.

 

[Draginzaaar]

A constructive post. Here is some more info:

There are provisional, interim and final ADVOs.

There is up to 11 orders Police can seek, even some involving stopping you from going home and seeing kids. Even against the alleged victims wishes.

Some employers don’t like ADVOs.
Fighting an ADVO can go on for months.

Police essentially need to prove the event occurred and fear. But they can get an ADVO even if the alleged victim no longer fears the accused.

Now that Lucy has an ADVO, if it is alleged he breaches it, he will be arrested and can face gaol time.

Some people don’t like ADVOs because they are afraid of false reports.

No accused is better off with an ADVO than not having one, but many victims are, although people ignore ADVOs anyway.

Do what they want and get into trouble.

I think the NRL could introduce it. If players and clubs don’t like it, then don’t compete In the NRL. They all contract to follow NRL rules don’t they?

Why are you in the Dragon's forum again?

 

[2218]

My only gripe with him is that he is at times talking about things legal that are incorrect. He also frames his comments as someone that is experienced in these things. My concern is that someone will take what he says and apply to it their decision making process rather than seek proper legal advice.
As to the questions, he asked the wrong ones.

 

[Crush]

No offence, but people seem interested in the situation, not just me.

You don’t have to read or agree with anything I say.

I’ve actually been pretty supportive of Lucy, I think he needs counselling help more than a smack in the head, but it’s a good opportunity to raise the issue of DV which the game should be much more involved with.

As you know, I think Amone should be in gaol!

As for Tigerland…not the best of forums for me atm. That’s how it goes.

I don’t mean to drive you around the bend. Footy starts soon!

Bro nobody spells it gaol anymore, not even the British. How old are you? 108?

 

[Belta]

Anyway round 1 if Leilua is on deck I'd still start Eisenhuth and have Luc on the bench. Eisenhuth deserves the start based on his pre-season efforts, and Luc needs some time to build fitness.

Eisenhuth spent a few minutes in the middle of the field in the Tigers trial (and did well) so I feel he could also become part of that middle rotation if needed, when Luc subs him off.

I would not be surprised if what you say does occur. It makes sense. the starting line up including, eyesandhoof have been good defensively and are showing signs of improvement in their attack.

If they go with the mentality that you pick your best 13, it could have unbalancing effect. Either way isn’t it a good problem to have. Finally some quality depth in both forwards and backs (albeit mostly outside backs). I have to say I’m eagerly awaiting to see what they’re going to do

 

[Hound of Dracula]

Bro nobody spells it gaol anymore, not even the British. How old are you? 108?

Australian English observed the change from gaol to jail in the 1990s. Both forms are correct, but it is likely that gaol will become a thing of the past.
However, many official and legal documents in Australia still use. 'Gaol'. (much copy/paste)

having said that - Let's get on with the footy as without intimate knowledge of the situation, we are all talking shite.

 

[Kolum Kid]

This thread reminds me of when I was in the navy long time ago. These posters would have been called "Messdeck Lawyers" and nobody took any notice of them.

 

[justadragon]

This thread reminds me of when I was in the navy long time ago. These posters would have been called "Messdeck Lawyers" and nobody took any notice of them.

We still have them KK, haven't changed much except GOOGLE comes into play a lot