Wellington launch NRL bid!!

[pHyR3]

Forget the Wellington bid. Well dont forget it entirely. If by some miracle the bid gets up, let's run with it and move the whole set-up to Auckland 2 if and when the whole thing goes pair-shaped, like the Titans.

Look, some lessons are hard learned. Gallop fishing where the fish are. ? well putting a team on the gold coasts party strip instead of planting it right into Logan central was the dumbest move the code made.
They are now slowly making their way towards Logan.

Brisbane Ipswich Brothers is a no-brainer. Having a team playing out of Suncorp each week is win/win for tv and our code.
Perth also needs a team. The time-zones and allowing the poor folk of Perth more than the punch-ball option is a major plus for the brainwashed.

lol actually probably right for once.

Wellington/South Island or whatever looks good for 2023. Not sure bout the 2nd team to be added then though.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Im personally more interested in a NZ State of Origin style series ahead of a second team.

 

[Perth Red]

Hurricanes avg less than 12k and are losing money. Is nrl bigger in wellington than s15?

 

[pHyR3]

Im personally more interested in a NZ State of Origin style series ahead of a second team.

as a kiwi that sounds stupid as hell

 

[Warrior@Heart]

Hurricanes avg less than 12k and are losing money. Is nrl bigger in wellington than s15?

S15 is definitely more popular but It's not like Perth where the majority are unaware or look at NRL as an inferior competition. I think the real problem is that the Hurricanes haven't made the finals the last 5 years. They're easily the Parramatta of NZ Super Rugby teams. The Warriors would most likely average around the same if they didn't make the top 8 5 years straight. But that stadium is sh!t too, it's a slightly smaller version of Patersons stadium with zero atmosphere for crowds under 20,000. I think Wellington would definitely embrace a new team representing the city you'd just need a lot of money to make it viable.

 

[oikee]

All good points. And i think you mean "island of origin" game for NZ. I like this idea, it has real merit, forward thinking, unlike the Wellington bid.
Here are a few points why Wellington will slowly wither and fail.
The stadium for a start, round not rectangle. When is our code going to wake up to the fact our code suffers every time we play at a round ground.

Lack of support. A city of 200 thousand can not support a team where they already have 2 to 3 other codes playing the same market.
Toowoomba has 150 thousand locals, and we could never support a league team, and we dont have any other codes here either.

Sponsors, travelling costs, players not wanting to play in Wellington and the cold and wind and rain in Winter. ? fans sitting out in the open getting wet cold and lack of atmosphere.

Fish where the fish are, the Titans are moving up the highway towards Logan, Queenslands premier breeding ground for league talent.

Ipswich is rugby League heartland, a no-brainer for league expansion. The fans would travel to the end of the earth to support Ipswich. Call the team brothers and you would have one of the largest support teams in the comp.

Perth and Auckland are the other two areas for now, that need a team.
I would have 19 teams and allow for a bye. That way everyone is happy. and we can introduce 3 new teams at the one time with maximum impact.
Perth,,,,, Auckland2/wellington,,,,,,,,,Brisbane2(ipswich) .

This would open up massive derbies, add a extra game to sell, open up more positions for countries to send players to the NRL.
Time-zones add value for tv, Brisbane adds at least 4 new Suncorp local derbies to the code, the state gets 6-7.
(along with having a game played in Brisbane every weekend, that is massive,,,unlike now where Brisbane only has the Broncos play every second week)
More sponsors get to support the code in Brisbane, so opens up cashflow, same as NZ , and Perth.

It's win/win faking win in my book,. The game needs visionaries, like Toowoomba's wagners brothers, and the guy who took a punt on Manly's premiership ring.
We need to speculate to accumulate.
Like Smith and Grant did with nines.
That also needs to be expanded as well, that is another story of growth.
Imagine 3 weekends of nines in 3 different cities at the start of each year. Instead of trail games, use the nines with prize-money as trails. ?
Now that is forward thinking.
Auckland and Brisbane and another city? could each have a nines weekend, with full prize money and not as hard on the players having to play 80 minute games at trails. So their would be hopefully fewer injuries.
Anyhow, i have said enough, we need visionaries. Smith and Grant are going well.

 

[oikee]

When we do expand to 18-19 teams, with a bye, this could alow the team with the bye to travel to a country area to play a game.
Example.
The team with the bye can plan the next weekend to take a game to a country city.
Every team should be asked to take one game to a country area. By introducing the extra game each round, this would then become easy to achieve.
So again, it is a win/win for country areas. Some areas could even plan to have two games.
With 18-19 teams, that is 18 to 19 games that can be taken to country or other state areas.
Plus some teams will still take a normal round game to other places, like rabbits to Perth, Parra to darwin, warriors to Wellington, etc.

I tell, our code is sitting on a faking gold mine. We just need for the men in charge to open their faking eyes.

 

[oikee]

"something has got to give"

I say this because the way rugby league's season is now cant keep going. 26 rounds plus finals is not going to grow the code.
What will grow the code is nines, expansion teams, extra origins and internationals, extra games for islanders, games in other cities and country areas, keeping the whole of Australia and NZ and the Islands happy, and the players.
For all that to happen, "something has to give".

Here is the perfect storm.
expand to 19 teams. (perth, brisbane, NZ).
Shorten the NRL season (18 rounds achieved by having 19 teams with a bye for each team)
Start the season with Nines, (3 weekends at 3 different cities, all with prize money)
Then play the All-stars game in a rotated city policy.
Start the season and stop for a origin 3 week window. Introduce "Island of Origin" for extra matches and income.
Anzac weekend introduce the Island test matches as well in the stand alone weekend.

Finish the season and then play 4 nations, internationals and world-cups.

The whole season would still take around the same time as now because of stoping for Origins and Anzac weekend stand alone.

"something has to give", player burnout is real. The only way to improve the code, and grow the code is to add substance, Quality and extra blockbuster weekends to the season.

The code cant grow while we travel down this 26 round path.
We need someone to stand up and be counted on this issue.
Having the players whinge about player burnout is damaging the code.
Shorten the season, add more blockbuster events and internationals and stand alone periods and you grow the quality of the product.
Quality over quantity will win the day.

Plus the game can sell these blockbuster events to the highest bidders.

 

[The Great Dane]

Im personally more interested in a NZ State of Origin style series ahead of a second team.

All good points. And i think you mean "island of origin" game for NZ. I like this idea, it has real merit, forward thinking, unlike the Wellington bid.

I like the idea of an NZ Origin too, but that's what has always been the problem with an NZ Origin, the Australian audience likes the idea but the Kiwis are lukewarm on the idea at best and expressly opposed to it at worst.

If an NZ Origin is to be successful it needs to be started by the Kiwis and for the Kiwis, like the Auckland 9s, otherwise it'll become a meaningless novelty for a handful of Australians and not the major product that it could be.

As for the bid it's self, a second team in NZ is a no brainer and in my opinion much more important then an second team in Brisbane in most ways. But whether or not this is the right bid for Wellington remains to be seen as we know absolutely nothing about it (yet it still looks better then the Bombers bid to me).

Concerns as to whether or not Wellington alone can support an NRL team are fair, but in my opinion for any NZ 2 bid to be successful in the mid to short term after being admitted they would have to represent and play games in Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin and those 3 cities definitely can support an NRL team together.

Also I know for a fact that these guys weren't the only ones looking into setting up a bid in NZ, I don't know what became of these other groups but I wouldn't be surprised if one or even two other bids pop up out of NZ in the next couple of year (especially if the NRL calls for bids some time soon).

 

[pHyR3]

theres no rivalry or history to base this island of origin concept on. QLD and NSW have so much to build upon, with the QRL versus NSWRL etc. etc.

However, pacific islands do have a lot more rivalry. Pacific Cup with 4 teams, has a lot more merit in my eyes.

I like 3 cities having 9s instead of trials.

Dont like all stars though, stupid made up concept. Very artificial. Need to centre RL around several core ideas, market them and make them a bit more valuable. Reducing the NRL season does that, makes it compact, doesnt drag on as long and retains people's attention better. SOO is another, nothing needs to be said there. Then add in 9s, and finally the international scene. the rest can essentially piss off, trials, all stars, island of origin, an aussie challenge cup during SOO or whatever. These add little to the comp and/or will have to build themselves up from very little.

The others i mentioned already have a base to expand from.

 

[Perth Red]

A more exciting NRL program would look like this:
Club Nines featuring NRL and SL clubs Feb
21 clubs in NRL playing a 20 game regular season finishing end of Sept
SOO and Pacific Island Cup (NZ,Tonga,Samoa,Fiji&PNG) on stand alone weekends during season
World Nines in early Oct
Ashes/RLWC/6 Nations alternating competitions Oct/Nov

 

[Perth Red]

If you were offering odds of Wellington having a National Rugby League team by 2018, they'd be 1000-1.
But some reality was added to the dream yesterday when the Sydney Morning Herald revealed a four-strong consortium are looking to establish a club in the capital.
Bids from Wellington have been mooted, even formalised, for 25 years now. Earlier this year the New Zealand Warriors flew a kite about relocating to Wellington, as well.
Now a new group, fronted by Sydney lawyer Robert Picone, say the time is right for the NRL to further expand within the New Zealand market. Almost 20 per cent of current club rosters were made up of New Zealanders and the Kiwis' Four Nations-winning success was further evidence of the depth and quality of talent in this country.
Wellington would be the consortium's base of choice, providing some competition to the Warriors in Auckland.
None of this was news to Wellington Rugby League general manager Jason Hemson, who was first approached by Picone in late 2011.
Hemson had been costing a Wellington bid since 2008. Picone and his group gave it some further impetus and now the pair will front various local bodies and business types in Wellington, with a view to beginning the lobbying process with the NRL and its clubs.
Without them agreeing to expansion, this latest bid will go nowhere. However, prospective clubs in Brisbane and Gosford are already well established, with chief executives and staffs in place should expansion happen.
"It's vital to sell the idea that Wellington would benefit other clubs, as well as the game," Hemson said.
He met with NRL chief executive David Smith and its head of football Todd Greenberg, while the pair were in Wellington to watch New Zealand's Four Nations final win over Australia.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/league/63464217/dream-of-second-kiwi-nrl-team-moves-step-closer.html

 

[The Great Dane]

theres no rivalry or history to base this island of origin concept on. QLD and NSW have so much to build upon, with the QRL versus NSWRL etc. etc.

Fair enough.

However, pacific islands do have a lot more rivalry. Pacific Cup with 4 teams, has a lot more merit in my eyes.

A Pacific cup should have been in existence since the late nighties, played at least once every 4 years, but in a perfect world it'd be held every second year and include as many pacific nations as possible.

I like 3 cities having 9s instead of trials.

The only way that three 9s competitions held over 3 weekends would draw much interest outside of the city it's being held in and be successful is if they were based on different levels of competition.

For example if one was an NRL 9s, one an international Club 9s and one an international 9s then it would make each event a stand alone event of interest instead of having one tournament that is prestigious and 2 that are just money makers that draw little attention outside of the city it's being held in.

Even so it'd be a bad idea to hold them over three consecutive weekends in my opinion.

Better of just leaving it as one 9s competition, while being open to expanding and tweaking the format of the comp and once the deal with Auckland ends selling the rights to host it to the highest bidder every year (with the rule that it can't be hosted by the same city twice in 3 years unless there're no other bidders, otherwise Sydney and Brisbane would be the only ones hosting it).

Dont like all stars though, stupid made up concept. Very artificial.

The problem with the All Stars is that the Aboriginal community really values the Aboriginal All Stars and enjoys the product, but everybody else couldn't give a flying f##K which undermines the All Stars games value as a whole.

There must be a good way to include some sort of Aboriginal representative side into the NRLs calender that also has an opponent/s that are also enthusiastic about the game.

Maybe instead of the PM's XII send an Aboriginal AS team over to play PNG and televise the game in Australia, maybe even hold the game here every second year. Sounds like two birds with one stone to me but maybe I'm missing something.

Need to centre RL around several core ideas, market them and make them a bit more valuable. Reducing the NRL season does that, makes it compact, doesnt drag on as long and retains people's attention better. SOO is another, nothing needs to be said there. Then add in 9s, and finally the international scene. the rest can essentially piss off, trials, all stars, island of origin, an aussie challenge cup during SOO or whatever. These add little to the comp and/or will have to build themselves up from very little.

The others i mentioned already have a base to expand from.

Though I agree that all those ideas are bad ones that shouldn't mean that we never try anything new or tweak a concept.

If something looks like it could be a good idea and we have the power to implement it then why not try it at least once, if it's a success then great, if not then never hold it again, but if we don't try new stuff at least once we'll never know if it's a money maker or not.

 

[Perth Red]

There is a pacific cup held, it is how the 4th nation when held in Southern hemi qualifies for the position. Funnily enough WA actually played in it a couple of times back in the 70's!

 

[oikee]

I like the idea of an NZ Origin too, but that's what has always been the problem with an NZ Origin, the Australian audience likes the idea but the Kiwis are lukewarm on the idea at best and expressly opposed to it at worst.

If an NZ Origin is to be successful it needs to be started by the Kiwis and for the Kiwis, like the Auckland 9s, otherwise it'll become a meaningless novelty for a handful of Australians and not the major product that it could be.

As for the bid it's self, a second team in NZ is a no brainer and in my opinion much more important then an second team in Brisbane in most ways. But whether or not this is the right bid for Wellington remains to be seen as we know absolutely nothing about it (yet it still looks better then the Bombers bid to me).

Concerns as to whether or not Wellington alone can support an NRL team are fair, but in my opinion for any NZ 2 bid to be successful in the mid to short term after being admitted they would have to represent and play games in Wellington, Christchurch, and Dunedin and those 3 cities definitely can support an NRL team together.

Also I know for a fact that these guys weren't the only ones looking into setting up a bid in NZ, I don't know what became of these other groups but I wouldn't be surprised if one or even two other bids pop up out of NZ in the next couple of year (especially if the NRL calls for bids some time soon).

Fair enough, agree.

 

[oikee]

theres no rivalry or history to base this island of origin concept on. QLD and NSW have so much to build upon, with the QRL versus NSWRL etc. etc.

However, pacific islands do have a lot more rivalry. Pacific Cup with 4 teams, has a lot more merit in my eyes.

I like 3 cities having 9s instead of trials.

Dont like all stars though, stupid made up concept. Very artificial. Need to centre RL around several core ideas, market them and make them a bit more valuable. Reducing the NRL season does that, makes it compact, doesnt drag on as long and retains people's attention better. SOO is another, nothing needs to be said there. Then add in 9s, and finally the international scene. the rest can essentially piss off, trials, all stars, island of origin, an aussie challenge cup during SOO or whatever. These add little to the comp and/or will have to build themselves up from very little.

The others i mentioned already have a base to expand from.

Yes, the 3 cities playing nines is a really fantastic idea. I read about this a couple of days ago. Not sure who mentioned this, but it sounds like a better idea than holding trail matches, slow the injury rate by playing nine minute games with unlimited interchange.

 

[oikee]

A more exciting NRL program would look like this:
Club Nines featuring NRL and SL clubs Feb
21 clubs in NRL playing a 20 game regular season finishing end of Sept
SOO and Pacific Island Cup (NZ,Tonga,Samoa,Fiji&PNG) on stand alone weekends during season
World Nines in early Oct
Ashes/RLWC/6 Nations alternating competitions Oct/Nov

Perth Red, i think super-league needs to grow their own nines. In 10 or 20 years time when nines is bedded down, then we can think of taking it global.
In the meantime we have the World Club Challenge also to fit into the program. With Brisbane and St George also heading overseas to play in a expanded 3 team Challenge.

As for the All-Stars, we really should be keeping this concept. This was a indigenous initiative and to get rid of this would do more damage than good.
To promote Aboriginal culture is something our code has always embraced.
Backing down from this game would be frowned upon.
All the money raised goes back into the indigenous communities.
It would be like taking bread out of the kiddies mouths, while also telling them they cant watch their own players because we cant be bothered. ???
Good luck with that.

As for nines in Oct, your starting to crowd the season again. We are trying to de-clutter this puppy.

 

[alien]

so why wellington over christchurch??? i think it would be good to have an nrl club on the south island. the christchurch club could look after rugby league on the south island and maybe play some games in other towns on the south island, and nz (name change back to auckland) warriors to do the same with the north island. would make a good rivalry. north v south. . .

 

[Perth Red]

Not everyone thinks its a good idea

It's hard to see any circumstances in which a Wellington-based NRL franchise could happen or be a success.
As a rugby league enthusiast, that is painful to say. But there seems little point in talking up a prospect with so little going for it.
Wellington is not short of mediocre teams or empty seats at Westpac Stadium.
More would not be merrier.
Melbourne is not a rugby league town and neither is this one.
In the past 20 or so years, notable players such as Stephen Kearney, Johnny Lomax, Richie Blackmore, Sione Faumuina, Simon Mannering and Ben Matulino have emerged from the Wellington system or done all their schooling here.
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But those few names are hardly indicative of a production line.
The consortium behind Wellington's NRL bid want to promote their team as a vehicle for promoting local talent but, if we are honest about it, history shows this region is hardly awash with it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/63493477/bidwell-wellington-nrl-bid-dead-in-the-water

 

[Warrior@Heart]

There's been more than just those names come out of Wellington. Especially if their catchment area was Wellington & Central Districts.

Simon Mannering, Ben Matulino, Mose Masoe, Jesse Sene-Lefao, Alehana Mara, Sam Tagataese, David Faiumu, Isaac Luke, Rangi Chase, Russell Packer, Ngani Laumape, Elijah Taylor, Api Pewhairangi, Nelson Asofa-Solomona are just a few I could come up with without putting much effort in.

Developing players would be the least of their problems, fan support would be about it. Imo A combined Wellington-Central Districts bid would carry more weight as they'd have 4 stadiums to use, a catchment area smaller than North Queensland but better yet a collective population of a million people also leaving space for the South Island to eventually bring in their own team.