West Coast Pirates Bid News

[adamkungl]

Add a Perth team to SL (as well as American teams) and you have a comp stretched too thin like the awful Super Rugby conference system. The logistics would be painful.

 

[Vee]

Add a Perth team to SL (as well as American teams) and you have a comp stretched too thin like the awful Super Rugby conference system. The logistics would be painful.

Surely the travel wouldn't be a problem Adam?

 

[Perth Red]

I should know this but are the Pirates an arm of NRLWA or were adopted by the old WARL.

IIRC the WA Reds and later the WC Pirates were separate from the state body

Yes, Pirates are owned by the NRLWA, and in effect NRL, as a brand and Jnr development arm of the game in WA.

 

[adamkungl]

Surely the travel wouldn't be a problem Adam?

Not specifically the travel (although a 17 hour flight is as bad as you can get) but trying to create a fair and interesting draw between 3 continents, that can actually be viewed on TV at reasonable times. It's a logistical nightmare. Are you then forced to come up with conferences to balance things out for far flung clubs? Will the fans care about a comp that's filled with teams they have no connection to and a conference system that is contrived just to make comp function?

Expansion is good but has natural limits. Again, see Super Rugby.

 

[Perth Red]

The only reason there is any rumour of it is because NRL has procrastinated for a decade about expansion whilst RFL seems to be willing to entertain the notion of a broader international competition. Logistics and costs would suggest we will never see a Perth team in a NH competition, but its fun showing up the NRL for its lack of vision!

 

[adamkungl]

The only reason there is any rumour of it is because NRL has procrastinated for a decade about expansion whilst RFL seems to be willing to entertain the notion of a broader international competition. Logistics and costs would suggest we will never see a Perth team in a NH competition, but its fun showing up the NRL for its lack of vision!

To me it looks like the RFL needs a 'circuit breaker', if that makes sense.
They can't get mainstream coverage because it's seen as a regional/northern game.
And it's seen as a regional/northern game because it doesn't get any mainstream coverage.

By getting overseas major cities to buy in they escape that circular logic and prove that RL can be a big city game.

 

[jim_57]

You'd like to think the Perth Origin & Double header would be part of some longer term thinking of an NRL team in 5 years. Now the Adelaide move has me in 2 minds, it is either an extention of a strategic expansion strategy to now include Adelaide as well or.. (more likely) just a money grab with no real intention behind it whatsoever.

I guess the more big event games the better in these states for the time being, it'll all just be a novelty until there are West Coast Pirates and Adelaide Rams/Bears/Pandas sides in the NRL.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

You'd like to think the Perth Origin & Double header would be part of some longer term thinking of an NRL team in 5 years. Now the Adelaide move has me in 2 minds, it is either an extention of a strategic expansion strategy to now include Adelaide as well or.. (more likely) just a money grab with no real intention behind it whatsoever.

I guess the more big event games the better in these states for the time being, it'll all just be a novelty until there are West Coast Pirates and Adelaide Rams/Bears/Pandas sides in the NRL.

Adelaide Ram Panda-Bears

The 'Ram' variety of Panda Bear is local to Adelaide so the name is a good fit.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

My take on the SL expansion is that they don’t care if clubs fail because most are rich owners and they will just get another one. Clubs come and go in the SL due to the type of relegation system they have. And those fans are fine with it. They can be a lot more expansion happy because of this.

Australia however, you have Disgruntled fans who still complain about there team being dropped 20yrs ago. You have 95% of clubs putting there hand out saying, “what about me”. Clubs are generally selfish and won’t do something for nothing. Like with the lack of interest in female Nrl clubs. It always comes back to money with the nrl clubs. Getting a airline company onboard would help clubs/Nrl travel costs with expansion teams.

I don’t mind the constant talk about expansion in the media no matter where it comes from. The benefits far outweigh the negatives. I took the Peter Beattie expansion talk as a “open for business” sell. Rugby league People from all around the country/world are talking and doing their figures on the potential of having a Nrl team. They are even talking about it overseas. Maybe Qatar sheik, twiggy etc might jump on board a bid team.

I can’t see a combined north/south hemisphere game until they make a plane that can fly from Aus to Europe in 5/6 hrs. Maybe in 15-20yrs

 

[taipan]

You'd like to think the Perth Origin & Double header would be part of some longer term thinking of an NRL team in 5 years. Now the Adelaide move has me in 2 minds, it is either an extention of a strategic expansion strategy to now include Adelaide as well or.. (more likely) just a money grab with no real intention behind it whatsoever.

I guess the more big event games the better in these states for the time being, it'll all just be a novelty until there are West Coast Pirates and Adelaide Rams/Bears/Pandas sides in the NRL.

In the case of Adelaide,methinks the supposed $10m to the NRL played a big part.
Money talks,SOO walks.

 

[Stallion]

My take on the SL expansion is that they don’t care if clubs fail because most are rich owners and they will just get another one. Clubs come and go in the SL due to the type of relegation system they have. And those fans are fine with it. They can be a lot more expansion happy because of this.

Australia however, you have Disgruntled fans who still complain about there team being dropped 20yrs ago. You have 95% of clubs putting there hand out saying, “what about me”. Clubs are generally selfish and won’t do something for nothing. Like with the lack of interest in female Nrl clubs. It always comes back to money with the nrl clubs. Getting a airline company onboard would help clubs/Nrl travel costs with expansion teams.

I don’t mind the constant talk about expansion in the media no matter where it comes from. The benefits far outweigh the negatives. I took the Peter Beattie expansion talk as a “open for business” sell. Rugby league People from all around the country/world are talking and doing their figures on the potential of having a Nrl team. They are even talking about it overseas. Maybe Qatar sheik, twiggy etc might jump on board a bid team.

I can’t see a combined north/south hemisphere game until they make a plane that can fly from Aus to Europe in 5/6 hrs. Maybe in 15-20yrs

Another factor with Australia is that its hallmark competition has sprouted from Sydney and expansion with additional clubs involves mostly a tyrrany of distance. This distance factor isolates and makes the code vulnerable if a one team region club falls on hard times. When and if two NRL clubs are located in expansion areas (like the AFL) and with the Sydney clubs still featured and respected we may see promotion and relegation possibly work in Australia. Population density is a major consideration for national football competitions in OZ moreso than elsewhere .

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Another factor with Australia is that its hallmark competition has sprouted from Sydney and expansion with additional clubs involves mostly actyrrany of distance. This distance factor isolates and makes the code vulnerable if a one team region club falls on hard times. When and if two NRL clubs are located in expansion areas (like the AFL) and with the Sydney clubs still featured and respected will promotion and relegation possibly work in Australia. Population density is a major consideration for national football competitions in OZ moreso than elsewhere .

Distance can be a factor if they let it become one. A one town club can be great if done right. Newcastle now is a prime example. Broncos not so much.

Don’t forget 2 teams in a expansion area doesn’t always work with the afl either. Nearly $50mil spent by afl to keep the the lions and suns a float and another $21mil for gws. Has the 2 expansion teams worked out for the afl? Would all the money they have spent on suns and gws +$200mil been better spent on free boots/sign on/insurance for juniors or double the afl officers in qld and nsw? Did they expand to soon?

 

[Stallion]

Distance can be a factor if they let it become one. A one town club can be great if done right. Newcastle now is a prime example. Broncos not so much.

Don’t forget 2 teams in a expansion area doesn’t always work with the afl either. Nearly $50mil spent by afl to keep the the lions and suns a float and another $21mil for gws. Has the 2 expansion teams worked out for the afl? Would all the money they have spent on suns and gws +$200mil been better spent on free boots/sign on/insurance for juniors or double the afl officers in qld and nsw? Did they expand to soon?

Its been vindicated in WA, South Australia for certain. Newcastle is not so far away from Sydney. BRISBANE should have had a 2nd NRL Club twenty years ago and I think we know whom is stopping that . The areas of Brisbane are not AFL areas and its quite frankly not that good a code. It relies on preexisting cultural rivalries from its Victorian base. The AFL will not tamper with existing popular clubs. They are smart in that way. Even if they have a crap code. Rugby league is easily understood and easily followed. It can grow in new areas however needs decent development work to do this. Eventually two clubs per expansion area is feasible but this is way into the future. Superleague held the code back twenty years at least.

 

[flippikat]

To me it looks like the RFL needs a 'circuit breaker', if that makes sense.
They can't get mainstream coverage because it's seen as a regional/northern game.
And it's seen as a regional/northern game because it doesn't get any mainstream coverage.

By getting overseas major cities to buy in they escape that circular logic and prove that RL can be a big city game.

Spot on.

The attempts so far by Superleague to break the 'just a northern game' perception by getting teams in France and London haven't done the trick.

I think they've realised that to really turn heads, the big breakthrough is going trans-Atlantic. They're at an advantage that they've moved their season to summer (away from Football, Rugby Union and NFL), and having genuine top-tier expansion teams in Canada & the USA would be a huge feat - making Rugby League a real trailblazer.

 

[Diesel]

Yes, Pirates are owned by the NRLWA, and in effect NRL, as a brand and Jnr development arm of the game in WA.

Therefore any future team for Perth would be the Pirates?

 

[Stallion]

Therefore any future team for Perth would be the Pirates?

You would certainly think and hope so!

 

[Perth Red]

Therefore any future team for Perth would be the Pirates?

Not necessarily. As said the Pirates brand is owned by the NRL. If there was going to be a Perth expansion team admitted I can see one of 3 options:
1. NRL owned/joint owned for first few years in which case it would be Pirtaes
2. NRL give the Pirates brand over to an independent group who want to run a new Perth club
3. A group decide to bid, and win, with a different brand for the new club

The NRL take over of the WARL has muddied the waters about how an NRL new club bid would work and who would own it.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I can’t see a combined north/south hemisphere game until they make a plane that can fly from Aus to Europe in 5/6 hrs. Maybe in 15-20yrs

Enter Elon Musk and Space X.

The 'World Space X Superleague' will kick-off in 2028 featuring teams from Australia, New Zealand, France, PNG, Fiji, USA, Canada and Wales

 

[Diesel]

Not necessarily. As said the Pirates brand is owned by the NRL. If there was going to be a Perth expansion team admitted I can see one of 3 options:
1. NRL owned/joint owned for first few years in which case it would be Pirtaes
2. NRL give the Pirates brand over to an independent group who want to run a new Perth club
3. A group decide to bid, and win, with a different brand for the new club

The NRL take over of the WARL has muddied the waters about how an NRL new club bid would work and who would own it.

100%

This was my thinking about the Pirates, WARL/NRLWA

 

[Stormwarrior82]

Not necessarily. As said the Pirates brand is owned by the NRL. If there was going to be a Perth expansion team admitted I can see one of 3 options:
1. NRL owned/joint owned for first few years in which case it would be Pirtaes
2. NRL give the Pirates brand over to an independent group who want to run a new Perth club
3. A group decide to bid, and win, with a different brand for the new club

The NRL take over of the WARL has muddied the waters about how an NRL new club bid would work and who would own it.

2 is my pick. I think the Nrl took over rl in WA to make sure it’s on the same path as the rest of the Nrl. I’m sure like the Nrl did with the titans and knights that over time the Nrl will distance themselves from WARL. Restructure the Warl to something like nswrl/qrl. I think the Perth bid team would/should be independant to Warl and the Nrl obviously. Nrl need to look after Nrl, Warl need to look after grassroots/comps and Perth bid team need to look after themselves while all liasing with each other. I just wish this could all happen in the next 2/3 yrs.