West Coast Pirates Bid News

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

W

Well if you are happy with small crowds why do you keep going on about too many teams in sydney? what you’re advocating for vpbrisbane is exactly the same scenario we have in Sydney, yet you have major problems with sydney, it’s you thats got the double standards. I’d be dissapointed if Storm and Perth couldnt build to 20k crowds eventually, that should be the goal To ensure sustainability beyond pokie machines,

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Brisbane has 2.5m people. Sydney has around 5.3m.

2.5m / 3 = 833k

5. 3m / 9 = 588k

The problem I have with Sydney is there are teams overlapping one another. St George and Cronulla both represent an area that has just over 500k. That's not enough people for two teams. There should just be one team representing Southern Sydney's 500k people.

Are you saying that there's a region in Brisbane that has 2 NRL teams covering just 500k people?

Parramatta has 260k people. Penrith has 210k.

Broncos are based just northwest of the CBD and cover 1.2m people in Brisbane, 330k in Logan, 240k in Ipswich and 150k in Redland.

Dolphins cover over 400k in Moreton Bay and another 330k in Sunshine Coast. There's more than enough room in the southeastern suburbs of Brisbane and Logan to cover a third team. Broncos would still have the northern, western and southern suburbs to themselves, plus Ipswich.

For Greater Brisbane to be comparable to Greater Sydney you would need a team in Ipswich, another in Logan, another in Redland and The Dolphins in Moreton Bay plus another in Brisbane.

If Melbourne haven't been able to draw more than 16k per game despite always winning over a 25 year period then what makes you think they'll ever get 20k through the gates?

Reds never drew an average of 20k through the gates.

 

[bad boy bubby]

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Brisbane has 2.5m people. Sydney has around 5.3m.

2.5m / 3 = 833k

5. 3m / 9 = 588k

The problem I have with Sydney is there are teams overlapping one another. St George and Cronulla both represent an area that has just over 500k. That's not enough people for two teams. There should just be one team representing Southern Sydney's 500k people.

Are you saying that there's a region in Brisbane that has 2 NRL teams covering just 500k people?

Broncos are based just northwest of the CBD and cover 1.2m people in Brisbane, 330k in Logan, 240k in Ipswich and 150k in Redland.

Dolphins cover over 400k in Moreton Bay and another 330k in Sunshine Coast. There's more than enough room in the southeastern suburbs of Brisbane and Logan to cover a third team. Broncos would still have the northern, western and southern suburbs to themselves, plus Ipswich.

If Melbourne haven't been able to draw more than 16k per game despite always winning over a 25 year period then what makes you think they'll ever get 20k through the gates?

Reds never drew an average of 20k through the gates.

There is bugger all support for Dragons in their natural area, they are way more wide spread in the Sydney region. I live in the St. George area these days and there is way more support for the Sharks and Rabbitohs. Dragons would be even par with the Roosters.
Sydney is a world recognised city, not a back water town. All areas are merged somewhat by migration. I bet there are more Dragons supporters in Campbelltown than there are in Kogarah.
Perth for the next team.

 

[Colk]

There is bugger all support for Dragons in their natural area, they are way more wide spread in the Sydney region. I live in the St. George area these days and there is way more support for the Sharks and Rabbitohs. Dragons would be even par with the Roosters.
Sydney is a world recognised city, not a back water town. All areas are merged somewhat by migration. I bet there are more Dragons supporters in Campbelltown than there are in Kogarah.
Perth for the next team.

Are you saying there are just as many Roosters supporters as Dragons supporters? I find that hard to believe.

They probably have an old supporter group though

 

[Colk]

Also, Perth should be the next side

 

[bad boy bubby]

Are you saying there are just as many Roosters supporters as Dragons supporters? I find that hard to believe.

They probably have an old supporter group though

No, I am saying in the "traditional" ST. George area there are just as many Roosters supporters. In Sydney on the whole there are WAY more St. George supporters, they just dont live in the traditional area of Sydney that they once lived. This was to counter Donkeys post about where Sydneys supporters lay.

 

[Colk]

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Brisbane has 2.5m people. Sydney has around 5.3m.

2.5m / 3 = 833k

5. 3m / 9 = 588k

The problem I have with Sydney is there are teams overlapping one another. St George and Cronulla both represent an area that has just over 500k. That's not enough people for two teams. There should just be one team representing Southern Sydney's 500k people.

Are you saying that there's a region in Brisbane that has 2 NRL teams covering just 500k people?

Parramatta has 260k people. Penrith has 210k.

Broncos are based just northwest of the CBD and cover 1.2m people in Brisbane, 330k in Logan, 240k in Ipswich and 150k in Redland.

Dolphins cover over 400k in Moreton Bay and another 330k in Sunshine Coast. There's more than enough room in the southeastern suburbs of Brisbane and Logan to cover a third team. Broncos would still have the northern, western and southern suburbs to themselves, plus Ipswich.

For Greater Brisbane to be comparable to Greater Sydney you would need a team in Ipswich, another in Logan, another in Redland and The Dolphins in Moreton Bay plus another in Brisbane.

If Melbourne haven't been able to draw more than 16k per game despite always winning over a 25 year period then what makes you think they'll ever get 20k through the gates?

Reds never drew an average of 20k through the gates.

I agree that there are too many sides in Sydney, particularly if you were to start a competition but it is unlikely to change.

Whilst we understand your frustration, you shouldn’t want to have a whole bunch of small sides in Brisbane/SEQ just because that is the case in Sydney.

Also, I am not necessarily against another side in SEQ, although I don’t think it would be sagacious to have that area as the next side that’s all. Let the Titans grow stronger as they have been weak for a long time (the population in GC is going to grow tremendously so there’s an opportunity for them there) and give the Dolphins an opportunity to become entrenched in the competition before putting another team there.

 

[Colk]

No, I am saying in the "traditional" ST. George area there are just as many Roosters supporters. In Sydney on the whole there are WAY more St. George supporters, they just dont live in the traditional area of Sydney that they once lived. This was to counter Donkeys post about where Sydneys supporters lay.

Got you. Yeah that’s what I thought. It is a bit of a misapprehension that supporters live in the area their teams are. I go for the Raiders and I live in Newcastle

 

[bad boy bubby]

Got you. Yeah that’s what I thought. It is a bit of a misapprehension that supporters live in the area their teams are. I go for the Raiders and I live in Newcastle

The only team in Sydney that you will not see another jersey outside their area is Penrith.
I honeslty did not meet a Penrith fan until about 8 years ago, and I've lived a longer than expected life, I've since met 2 more.

 

[Colk]

The only team in Sydney that you will not see another jersey outside their area is Penrith.
I honeslty did not meet a Penrith fan until about 8 years ago, and I've lived a longer than expected life, I've since met 2 more.

I think I’ve seen a couple in my life. My Aunty is a Penrith fan because she liked Ryan Girdler

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

There is bugger all support for Dragons in their natural area, they are way more wide spread in the Sydney region. I live in the St. George area these days and there is way more support for the Sharks and Rabbitohs. Dragons would be even par with the Roosters.
Sydney is a world recognised city, not a back water town. All areas are merged somewhat by migration. I bet there are more Dragons supporters in Campbelltown than there are in Kogarah.
Perth for the next team.

I don't have a problem with Perth getting the 18th licence. It's ridiculous we don't have a team there already.

Each Sydney club would have supporters all over the metropolis, but all that matters is how far away their supporters are from where they play. Most people are not going to travel for 2 or more hours to attend 12 games a year. Southern Sydney just doesn't have enough people to support two professional clubs and Wollongong doesn't have the capital to fund a team of its own. Ideally you would have one of the Dragons or Sharks relocate to Adelaide.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I think I’ve seen a couple in my life. My Aunty is a Penrith fan because she liked Ryan Girdler

I saw a Sydney Souffs flag on a grave at the Mt Gravatt Cemetery.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I agree that there are too many sides in Sydney, particularly if you were to start a competition but it is unlikely to change.

Whilst we understand your frustration, you shouldn’t want to have a whole bunch of small sides in Brisbane/SEQ just because that is the case in Sydney.

Also, I am not necessarily against another side in SEQ, although I don’t think it would be sagacious to have that area as the next side that’s all. Let the Titans grow stronger as they have been weak for a long time (the population in GC is going to grow tremendously so there’s an opportunity for them there) and give the Dolphins an opportunity to become entrenched in the competition before putting another team there.

I agree. Perth should be the next team. The market has 2m people and supports its teams.

My only concern for Perth and NZ 2 is financial security.

Do they have enough assets and financiers to survive a tough period like COVID-19?

Pokies are illegal in Perth so the Pirates/Reds will rely on memberships and investors. Tinker's antics at Newcastle will make the ARLC think twice about a club relying mostly on a millionaire. Titans had trouble and needed to be bailed out.

If Bruce Gordon bails out of the Dragons then they might be in trouble as Steelers Leagues struggles to make money.

Sydney Souffs could be in the shit when Crowe pulls out and the onfield success dries up.

Brisbane 3's biggest selling point is it will have the asset base and money from their Leagues Club to be financially viable and a powerhouse from day one. Ideally it wouldn't be considered until 2035, but if it's the only solvent option in 2027 or the networks want another Brisbane team then that will be who they promote.

 

[Colk]

I agree. Perth should be the next team. The market has 2m people and supports its teams.

My only concern for Perth and NZ 2 is financial security.

Do they have enough assets and financiers to survive a tough period like COVID-19?

Pokies are illegal in Perth so the Pirates/Reds will rely on memberships and investors. Tinker's antics at Newcastle will make the ARLC think twice about a club relying mostly on a millionaire. Titans had trouble and needed to be bailed out.

If Bruce Gordon bails out of the Dragons then they might be in trouble as Steelers Leagues struggles to make money.

Sydney Souffs could be in the shit when Crowe pulls out and the onfield success dries up.

Brisbane 3's biggest selling point is it will have the asset base and money from their Leagues Club to be financially viable and a powerhouse from day one. Ideally it wouldn't be considered until 2035, but if it's the only solvent option in 2027 or the networks want another Brisbane team then that will be who they promote.

You have a point and I could see the NRL being somewhat spooked by it. As a person from the area, the problem with Tinkler and the Knights was two fold. He was new money, or he had become very wealthy, very quickly. He hadn’t built that money over a long time and hadn’t shown good business acumen. Thus he spent like a drunk and didn’t have good cash flow.

Also, most importantly, the Knights were absolutely desperate. If they were breaking even, they wouldn’t have ever considered the offer or they would have studied the offer more thoroughly at the very least.

Nonetheless, I wouldn’t turn my back on the idea of private individual owners altogether, it is very common and works well in most sports.

I think also there are a lot of NRL clubs owned by private individuals/business as opposed to the League clubs now

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You have a point and I could see the NRL being somewhat spooked by it. As a person from the area, the problem with Tinkler and the Knights was two fold. He was new money, or he had become very wealthy, very quickly. He hadn’t built that money over a long time and hadn’t shown good business acumen. Thus he spent like a drunk and didn’t have good cash flow.

Also, most importantly, the Knights were absolutely desperate. If they were breaking even, they wouldn’t have ever considered the offer or they would have studied the offer more thoroughly at the very least.

Nonetheless, I wouldn’t turn my back on the idea of private individual owners altogether, it is very common and works well in most sports.

I think also there are a lot of NRL clubs owned by private individuals/business as opposed to the League clubs now

With PVL saying "the business case has to stack up" for a bid to be successful, I think the best bet for Perth is to split ownership between members and private investors. If they can convince 10k supporters to invest in them then they might have a chance.

 

[Perth Red]

You keep saying that but it's not true.

News Ltd agreed to pay the NRL an extra $100m to fund expansion into Brisbane.

"According to the News Corp report, the Foxtel deal, which is believed to be worth around $100 million over the next five years, will cover the costs of the expanded league."

'No brainer': NRL set to expand after $100m Peter V'landys deal

A whopping budget surplus thanks to a huge new TV rights deal has allowed rugby league boss Peter V'landys to move forward with a massive NRL project. Read more here.

au.sports.yahoo.com

that’s BS, it’s absolute smoke and mirrors! Reality is fox won’t pay anymore in 2023 for a 17 team comp than they paid in 2017 for a 16 team comp.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

that’s BS, it’s absolute smoke and mirrors! Reality is fox won’t pay anymore in 2023 for a 17 team comp than they paid in 2017 for a 16 team comp.

We've been through this. They were going to pay $100m less than they did in the previous deal if the competition remained at 16 teams.

Why do you try to undermine The Dolphins at every opportunity?

For what it's worth, I hope Perth gets the 18th licence. The game needs to expand into a new market. Perth ticks all the boxes and will provide as many benefits to the NRL as the NRL will provide to Perth.

 

[mongoose]

There is bugger all support for Dragons in their natural area, they are way more wide spread in the Sydney region. I live in the St. George area these days and there is way more support for the Sharks and Rabbitohs. Dragons would be even par with the Roosters.
Sydney is a world recognised city, not a back water town. All areas are merged somewhat by migration. I bet there are more Dragons supporters in Campbelltown than there are in Kogarah.
Perth for the next team.

last time i walked around Kogarah or might have been hurstville it was wall to wall chinese shops

 

[Perth Red]

I agree. Perth should be the next team. The market has 2m people and supports its teams.

My only concern for Perth and NZ 2 is financial security.

Do they have enough assets and financiers to survive a tough period like COVID-19?

Pokies are illegal in Perth so the Pirates/Reds will rely on memberships and investors. Tinker's antics at Newcastle will make the ARLC think twice about a club relying mostly on a millionaire. Titans had trouble and needed to be bailed out.

If Bruce Gordon bails out of the Dragons then they might be in trouble as Steelers Leagues struggles to make money.

Sydney Souffs could be in the shit when Crowe pulls out and the onfield success dries up.

Brisbane 3's biggest selling point is it will have the asset base and money from their Leagues Club to be financially viable and a powerhouse from day one. Ideally it wouldn't be considered until 2035, but if it's the only solvent option in 2027 or the networks want another Brisbane team then that will be who they promote.

If you’regoing to claim Sunshine Coast is going to travel to suncorp to support dolphins then we’ll claim the whole of WA ready to back the West Coast Pirates ie 2.7million!

of course perth makes sense as the next club, we just need to get rid of Vlandys and his puppet before that decision is made!

 

[Perth Red]

You have a point and I could see the NRL being somewhat spooked by it. As a person from the area, the problem with Tinkler and the Knights was two fold. He was new money, or he had become very wealthy, very quickly. He hadn’t built that money over a long time and hadn’t shown good business acumen. Thus he spent like a drunk and didn’t have good cash flow.

Also, most importantly, the Knights were absolutely desperate. If they were breaking even, they wouldn’t have ever considered the offer or they would have studied the offer more thoroughly at the very least.

Nonetheless, I wouldn’t turn my back on the idea of private individual owners altogether, it is very common and works well in most sports.

I think also there are a lot of NRL clubs owned by private individuals/business as opposed to the League clubs now

Dragons
souths
roosters
storm
broncos
warriors

all owned or backed by private owners. LC’s revenue has been dwindling in recent years as the next generation gambles online, once the boomer pokie addicts have pegged it then LC’s could be in trouble. Hence why many of them are now diversifying into other business areas.

A perth club will need some decent investors to give nrl security but we have at least 3 millionaires keen to buy in, one of them has more money and assets than the redcliffe dolphins has.

 

[Perth Red]

L

We've been through this. They were going to pay $100m less than they did in the previous deal if the competition remained at 16 teams.

Why do you try to undermine The Dolphins at every opportunity?

For what it's worth, I hope Perth gets the 18th licence. The game needs to expand into a new market. Perth ticks all the boxes and will provide as many benefits to the NRL as the NRL will provide to Perth.

Like I said it’s smoke and mirrors. fox are NOT paying anymore in 2023 than they did in the last deal. Ch9 are NOT paying anymore cash than in the last deal. Expansion has not brought in anymore cash to the nrl And will cost it $15million a year. That’s the facts, you’d have to ask our leader why he couldn’t get more money than the last deal despite adding a brisbane club that was supposed to be Valuable to tv.