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West Coast Pirates Bid News

CarlU

Juniors
Messages
29
Im not sure that Perth is better for the TV deal
I think there would be more viewers in the Central Coast who would watch NRL
 

Flapper

First Grade
Messages
7,825
Im not sure that Perth is better for the TV deal
I think there would be more viewers in the Central Coast who would watch NRL

I'd be more inclined to believe they already watch the NRL regardless, whereas Perth is viewed as a fresh market.
 
Messages
23,953
Central Coast won't add much to the NRL apart from some good will in NSW. .Qld2 and WA have the potential to add to the TV rights which puts them both in front.
Channel 9 have already come out publically to support the CC Bears attempt to establish a team in Gosford, and are willing to pay $$$ to see it happen.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
Next 2 - Central Coast and a second Brisbane based team. Perth and Adelaide are just too hard to cater for (time, distance), the cash that is supposed to be in WA really isn't there any more - plus to be honest there is really not enough player talent to spread amongst 20 teams (possibly even 18 teams). In all reality an NRL team in either Adelaide or Perth would be broke in a few years and would need News Limited propping them up (like Melbourne).
 

Nuke

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
5,019
I think 18 teams is possible as far as player talent numbers is concerned. Have a look at the amount of former NRL players playing in the ESL. The numbers of imports is dropping due to their competition capping this for each team. I don't know how many imports per team they currently are allowed, nor do I know how many they'll be allowed in the coming years, but it's dropping.

There'll be a few players looking to come back to the NRL, plus a larger number more of players who won't be going across to the ESL in the first place. Sure, union will still poach League players, but with a couple more teams in the NRL, there would be more of an option for these players to consider staying in the NRL.
 

Brutus

Referee
Messages
26,214
Im not sure that Perth is better for the TV deal
I think there would be more viewers in the Central Coast who would watch NRL

Central Coast people already watch NRL.

Wouldn't make much difference if they had a team or not.

Perth is a different kettle of fish though in that regard.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
Sorry...don't think that Perth is huge potential at all. The fascination with Rugby Union is over. League will be the same as it is in Melbourne - a bit piece to AFL. I think we have to face facts that League is an east coast sport and forget taking on the remainder of the country.
 

Cloud9

Guest
Messages
1,126
Central Queensland would be like Townsville. Except the stadiums there are sub standard.
 
Messages
21,867
Sorry...don't think that Perth is huge potential at all. The fascination with Rugby Union is over. League will be the same as it is in Melbourne - a bit piece to AFL. I think we have to face facts that League is an east coast sport and forget taking on the remainder of the country.


sorry , its atitudes like this that will lead to the death of rugby league.

expand our base or die. Really its that simple.

rugby league just can rely on NSW and Queensland forever. Without new areas to bring additional revenue into the code we're in big trouble. And in actual fact we need to expand just to maintain our size. Other codes are coming after our market , so we must do the same simply to maintain our current state. Without doing so will mean we will be going backwards.
 
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Flapper

First Grade
Messages
7,825
Sorry...don't think that Perth is huge potential at all. The fascination with Rugby Union is over. League will be the same as it is in Melbourne - a bit piece to AFL. I think we have to face facts that League is an east coast sport and forget taking on the remainder of the country.

I can tell you've never lived in Perth.
 

hutch

First Grade
Messages
6,810
Sorry...don't think that Perth is huge potential at all. The fascination with Rugby Union is over. League will be the same as it is in Melbourne - a bit piece to AFL. I think we have to face facts that League is an east coast sport and forget taking on the remainder of the country.

are you denis fitzgerald?

and are you surprised that the fascination with rugby union is over in perth? people arent going to follow a sport if it puts you to sleep.

perth has mssive potential. there is already a solid junior base there, and rugby league has always been well supported and attracted good crowds in the west. they are extremely important strategically, along with southern nz. rugby league is not an east coast sport. it is growing in victoria, number 1 in act, growing quite rapidly in wa without and nrl team and extremely popular in the nt.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
I haven't lived in Perth, but I have visited Perth, and Adelaide, and Melbourne (last 12 months) all recently and I'll tell you that AFL is MASSIVE in all 3 cities. They have a stranglehold on the places and we simply do not have the resources and time to put in to growing anywhere other than where there is a profile now.

Expand our base or die...please...remember the last time we tried to expand our base? The game almost died then. Both the ARL and Super League tried to make Perth work and it simply didn't. Both organisations gave up on Perth already as being too hard.

The stakeholders in the game don't have any interests in Perth besides Foxtel - Channel Nine isn't owned by the same organisation (CVC Asia Pacific) that owns the east coast stations (WIN Television - who it must be noted does not necessarily play ball with Channel Nine). The major newspaper in Perth is essentially owned by the Stokes family. How is the game supposed to grow when the stakeholders have no real motivation to help it - in fact they only have motivation to help AFL against the fight of League.

And speaking of The West Australian - did Cory Patterson's news (which was reasonably covered on the east coast) even rate a mention in the West Australian? Certainly didn't rate a mention in the West's League coverage online which besides coverage of results is sparse to say the least. The WAFL gets a better coverage let alone the NRL.

You guys bagging me for commenting - have you been to Perth? Have you visited Perth recently? Do yourself a favour and pick up a copy of one of the papers from Melbourne or Perth or Adelaide and see how intense the coverage of AFL is over there. Then try and find the League section. I was in Melbourne during Grand Prix week and in the Herald Sun there is seriously 20 pages of AFL coverage and a column at the back of the sports section for League - and News Limited own the bloody team!

I love League as much as you guys, however we have to be realistic. We do not have the resources to make Perth work. Do we want to put the game at risk by investing large amounts in to AFL heartland when we have clubs over here (Cronulla, Newcastle) who are battling to stay alive here?
 
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Messages
21,867
I haven't lived in Perth, but I have visited Perth, and Adelaide, and Melbourne (last 12 months) all recently and I'll tell you that AFL is MASSIVE in all 3 cities. They have a stranglehold on the places and we simply do not have the resources and time to put in to growing anywhere other than where there is a profile now

wouldnt you say rugby league has a stranglehold on SEQ? It doesnt seem to stop the AFL having at least one team there. All we want is a slice of the market in Perth , no one is thinking we are all of a sudden going to challenge AFL for top spot there.

Expand our base or die...please...remember the last time we tried to expand our base? The game almost died then. Both the ARL and Super League tried to make Perth work and it simply didn't. Both organisations gave up on Perth already as being too hard.

last time we expanded it was damaged by greed and self interest. If Super League hadnt of come alomg it is quite likely the reds would be here right now. They gave up on perth becuase they had just spent around $1 billion fighting each other , they had to cut costs.

The stakeholders in the game don't have any interests in Perth besides Foxtel - Channel Nine isn't owned by the same organisation (CVC Asia Pacific) that owns the east coast stations (WIN Television - who it must be noted does not necessarily play ball with Channel Nine). The major newspaper in Perth is essentially owned by the Stokes family. How is the game supposed to grow when the stakeholders have no real motivation to help it - in fact they only have motivation to help AFL against the fight of League.

Just becuase nine perth arent owned by the same company doesnt mean they wouldnt help rugby league. Last i heard WIN also essentially own 50% of the dragons. That would make them a pretty decent stakeholder in the game. Also nine in perth have no local sport to show , i would think they'd be interested in televising a local team.

It may surprise you to know that several of the channel nine commentators have expressed support for Perth. Sterlo and Voss in particular. Two pretty smart rubgy league brains i would have thought.

offcourse channel nine arent going to be pushing for a perth team , becuase as you pointed out they dont own nine perth. Pretty much all companies speak from a position of self interest. That in return doesnt make it the right call for rugby league. We need to break the power the networks have , not increase it.

And speaking of The West Australian - did Cory Patterson's news (which was reasonably covered on the east coast) even rate a mention in the West Australian? Certainly didn't rate a mention in the West's League coverage online which besides coverage of results is sparse to say the least. The WAFL gets a better coverage let alone the NRL.

why would it rate a mention if they dont have a team?!

if you look at the SMH or tele , a huge proportion of their AFL coverage is swans specific. Without the swans there would be little or no AFL coverage in Australia's biggest city.

You guys bagging me for commenting - have you been to Perth? Have you visited Perth recently? Do yourself a favour and pick up a copy of one of the papers from Melbourne or Perth or Adelaide and see how intense the coverage of AFL is over there. Then try and find the League section. I was in Melbourne during Grand Prix week and in the Herald Sun there is seriously 20 pages of AFL coverage and a column at the back of the sports section for League - and News Limited own the bloody team!

we all know AFL is hugely popular in those cities. It doesnt mean over time we cant capture a piece of the market.

In regards to perth soccer and union have both received pretty good support in Perth. Sure the union crowds have been going down but this has more to do with playing from a rubbish stadium.

If we are confident in our product , there is no reason we cant pull big crowds at re-developed stadium in perth.

I love League as much as you guys, however we have to be realistic. We do not have the resources to make Perth work. Do we want to put the game at risk by investing large amounts in to AFL heartland when we have clubs over here (Cronulla, Newcastle) who are battling to stay alive here?

thats the thing , one argument is there are to many teams in this market already. If Newcastle are struggling why would we then put a team 100Km down the freeway on the central coast?! pure madness IMO. The revenue streams in NSW are drying up , we need to bring in new money. Teams in new markets have this potential.
 
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Messages
21,867
Er...Cory Patterson is from WA. He was in the news over here and didn't even get a run over there. That's how much they love their Rugby League at The West Australian...


so your basing a large part of your argument on the fact that one player didnt get a mention in the WA media?!

you cant promote rugby league in Perth without regular top level football being played there. The same can be said about any code going into a new area.

BTW - are you going to comment on the rest of my post or is it just that one point you disagree with?
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
OK...I'll bite:

* The AFL is smart and dumb in their expansion plans - Gold Coast is a reasonable idea because they have an existing base of fans that have moved from interstate. They have played games for years on the Gold Coast, and they had the Bears that played at Carrara prevously. The second team in Sydney? Epic Fail. I don't understand why the hierarchy in the AFL can't see this. If we need to expand - and that is a need - we need to be smart in how we do it. Taking on the AFL in AFL heartland - not the right way of doing it.

* If Super League didn't happen I still don't believe that the Reds would be still around. If the League thought there was a long-term view of League in Western Australia they would have kept them like they did the Storm. If the NRL are reluctant to establish a second team in Brisbane, what makes you think they are dead keen to set up a team in Perth?

* Lets face it - WIN have been forced in to buying more equity in the Dragons - heck they even have to sponsor Kogarah Oval in an area where they don't even broadcast! Ultimately Channel Nine Perth is one of their biggest assets and they will do whatever they need to to win ratings there - AFL will always win the ratings over League in Perth. As for smart League minds - Sterlo Yes, Vossy No. Also doesn't mean they have smart business minds.

* If the highest profile League player to come from Western Australia can't even get a mention in the press there what does it mean for the actual game in WA?

* How have we gone in "capturing the market" in Melbourne? 15,000 people at a game - we think that is a great result. The AFL would think that was a pretty big failure. Union is failing in Perth. Soccer does go well there but that is probably more around being played in the off-season with no competition.

* If the revenue streams are drying up - are more teams necessarily the answer? I still doubt there is enough talent to have any more than 16 teams - that was part of the problem when we expanded to 20 teams in the first place. 16 is the number in my opinion - where those 16 teams are located is a completely different question. But moving a financially weak team like the Sharks to a place like Perth where they would have to work even harder for sponsorship dollars? Not the answer either...
 

BrisVegas

Juniors
Messages
892
OK...I'll bite:

* If Super League didn't happen I still don't believe that the Reds would be still around. If the League thought there was a long-term view of League in Western Australia they would have kept them like they did the Storm. If the NRL are reluctant to establish a second team in Brisbane, what makes you think they are dead keen to set up a team in Perth?

..

* How have we gone in "capturing the market" in Melbourne? 15,000 people at a game - we think that is a great result. The AFL would think that was a pretty big failure. Union is failing in Perth. Soccer does go well there but that is probably more around being played in the off-season with no competition.

Using your logic do you think the League didn't believe there was a long term future for a club on the Gold Coast or a 2nd Brisbane team? Remember that the Gold Coast where profitable at the time and had millions in the bank. The clubs eliminated during the peace deal were victims of horse trading. Super League agreed to wind up the Red and Rams, while the ARL removed the Crushers and Chargers - clubs that were politically easier to eliminate, thereby saving spots for Sydney based clubs.

As for Melbourne crowds, the Storm have simply outgrown Olympic Park. They have more members (8k+) than seats available. The current capacity of the ground is about 16k, meaning they filled over 90% of it with a 15k crowd.

I honestly believe that the Storm will be in the top 5 for attendances within a few years of moving into their new ground, behind only Brisbane, the Gold Coast and perhaps N-QLD and Newcastle (once the EAS redevelopment is complete).
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
Using your logic do you think the League didn't believe there was a long term future for a club on the Gold Coast or a 2nd Brisbane team? Remember that the Gold Coast where profitable at the time and had millions in the bank. The clubs eliminated during the peace deal were victims of horse trading. Super League agreed to wind up the Red and Rams, while the ARL removed the Crushers and Chargers - clubs that were politically easier to eliminate, thereby saving spots for Sydney based clubs.

As for Melbourne crowds, the Storm have simply outgrown Olympic Park. They have more members (8k+) than seats available. The current capacity of the ground is about 16k, meaning they filled over 90% of it with a 15k crowd.

I honestly believe that the Storm will be in the top 5 for attendances within a few years of moving into their new ground, behind only Brisbane, the Gold Coast and perhaps N-QLD and Newcastle (once the EAS redevelopment is complete).
Gold Coast is completely different to Perth - existing Rugby League area compared to AFL heartland.

And as far as Melbourne goes, given the new Olympic Park will hold 31,000 we'll see how their numbers fare then. If it is number of seats that are holding them back we'll soon see.
 
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