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West Coast Pirates Bid News

RoosTah

Juniors
Messages
2,257
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/s...ays-no-nrl-club-in-perth-for-six-years/#page1

Absurd by now, the NRL should of had long-term vision/plans for expansion years ago, to delay it again shows how short-sight and heartland focused the NRL has been for so long. By 2022, the other codes expansion teams would be well establish meanwhile the NRL does what it does best stay still and do nothing. How about a clear 6 year plan in the build up to new expansion teams by 2022.

This is frustrating to see rugby league as a code willing to stagnant and do nothing while the other codes show courage and actually expand the game.

They're pretty cautious and prudent at the NRL and Grant does have a point - look at how badly the Super Rugby expansions are unraveling and how much money the AFL has sunk into the CG and Western Sydney to almost zero effect (seriously, most their members are from interstate FFS).

The AFL have deeper pockets than we do still so they can take that hit, but frankly their focus group Melbourne team in Homebush are only really doing well on the field and hemorrhaging money off it.

So I do see logic in what they're doing with Perth from a longer term perspective. That said, I think they could stand to put more money in these regions than they are to get more schools playing the game and the local club comp up to a standard where they can be competing with sides in the NSW and QLD Cups
 

toomuchsoup

Juniors
Messages
2,255
I understand the example of the AFL and how the GC and GWS aren't exactly successful expansion teams, but we can't keep comparing NRL to AFL or even NFL as a lot of people I here seem to do. With the Force in the state it is at the moment, now is the time to put a team in Perth. Come on Greenberg you goose!
 

Diesel

Referee
Messages
23,773
Perhaps if some deadwood in the commission was shifted off, they money could be used for a Perth team.

What have the commission really achieved in nearly 5 years? Other than undoing all of Dave Smith's smart work
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/s...ays-no-nrl-club-in-perth-for-six-years/#page1

Absurd by now, the NRL should of had long-term vision/plans for expansion years ago, to delay it again shows how short-sight and heartland focused the NRL has been for so long. By 2022, the other codes expansion teams would be well establish meanwhile the NRL does what it does best stay still and do nothing. How about a clear 6 year plan in the build up to new expansion teams by 2022.

This is frustrating to see rugby league as a code willing to stagnant and do nothing while the other codes show courage and actually expand the game.

Incredibly stupid imo. there is just no way the game can afford to not expand at the Nrl level, to stagnate is too create the perception of decline in this country. think of what the sporting landscape will look like in 6 years! AFL more than likely up to 20 teams and the a-league 12-14 teams, the negativity and perception of lagging behind will damage the game immensely and it's only going to get more difficult to add professional teams so I fear for the NRL it's way too late by 2022

Meanwhile we get tiny bits of info, often misleading or conflicting about the future format of the magical second tier. this time it's a new second tier competition with a Perth side aligned to a current nrl club. seriously if the game had no competition and had a significant presence in the other states already then this would be a great strategy, otherwise it's only designed to placate the current clubs for whom Greenberg is their yes man.

No vision, no planning, no strategy, no balls, no future
 

RoosTah

Juniors
Messages
2,257
Incredibly stupid imo. there is just no way the game can afford to not expand at the Nrl level, to stagnate is too create the perception of decline in this country. think of what the sporting landscape will look like in 6 years! AFL more than likely up to 20 teams and the a-league 12-14 teams, the negativity and perception of lagging behind will damage the game immensely and it's only going to get more difficult to add professional teams so I fear for the NRL it's way too late by 2022

Meanwhile we get tiny bits of info, often misleading or conflicting about the future format of the magical second tier. this time it's a new second tier competition with a Perth side aligned to a current nrl club. seriously if the game had no competition and had a significant presence in the other states already then this would be a great strategy, otherwise it's only designed to placate the current clubs for whom Greenberg is their yes man.

No vision, no planning, no strategy, no balls, no future

To be fair, they are planning and they do have a vision. It's just that those plans and that vision are very much a slow and steady approach.

What I think people need to also appreciate is that as big a fan I personally am of going to Perth, a huge factor in its favour is being eroded - namely the expat East-Coasters who were there to work in mining and related industries. The WA economy isn't rolling in cash and jobs like it was during the boom years, so being dispassionate and rational about it I can see why the NRL are choosing instead to bide their time.

Better to sit out the bad years building and then launch a team when you have both a genuine groundswell of support AND a booming economy to get behind it than to just haphazardly launch something without having done your sums properly and then watch it slowly fall apart ala the Force.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,915
They're pretty cautious and prudent at the NRL and Grant does have a point - look at how badly the Super Rugby expansions are unraveling and how much money the AFL has sunk into the CG and Western Sydney to almost zero effect (seriously, most their members are from interstate FFS).

Would the NRL pump any more money into a Perth team than they current pump into any of the Sydney teams?
ie a club grant of $9 mill or whatever it is? The answer is "highly unlikely"

The NRL has always had a sink or swim policy with the expansion teams whilst the AFL are prepared to give additional assistance to balance disadvantage.

So in that respect I would rather a club grant go to Perth rather than one of the failing Sydney teams that is costing the NRL $10 mill a year. Only problem is the arse dragging Sydney teams vote the idea down so their own mediocrity can hang on to life and cost the NRL money rather than an expansion club with an actual chance of growing this game.
 

CC_Roosters

First Grade
Messages
5,221
Grant offered the NRLWA some hope, saying a Perth side would be aligned to an NRL club when the new second-tier competition started in two years.

“Nothing at the NRL level, that’s the salient point. Expansion at the new level, to the truly semi-professional level, that will be the natural pathway to the NRL and that’s the opportunity for WA,” he said.

This will only work if a semi-pro side is centrally funded to account for travel costs etc.... Also is he proposing this "new" level replaces the state cups as "reserve grade" or slots below the NRL pushes the state cups into the 3rd level on the pyramid? Which club would want its surplus players flying back and forward across the country with influence on coaching made more difficult, certainly not one of the short sighted greedy mob we have now.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
The salary cap for 2018 has yet to be decided,so they cannot proceed further till that is sorted out with the RLPA.
The code has money set aside for the Future Fund,but has spent millions in future coating the Titans for sale,the Knights for sale,the Balmain Tigers a loan to assist them in the partnership.A loan to the Dragons.
This all has to come back via sales and repayment of loans.
The NRL lost money in the final year off gallop's tenure.

So,that means the cash availability at the moment is limited ,until the TV money comes in 2018.

The NRL's current policy is not sink or swim,but to ensure the long term financial viability of all 16 NRL clubs.

Why the hell should long standing Sydney clubs with their many fans be dumped,just to put a team in Perth.
Super league peace deal dumped teams,and gave a big leg up to the fumbling Swans.

I am for a Perth team under their own steam,not by virtue of the removal of a current club.

Any expansion club woudl receive the usual grants,plus assistance with promotion.certainly not the largesse of the GWS and the GC Sunburns.

IMO the NRL are doing the sane thing,not wasting money they don't have,but strengthening their base.Then expansion will follow .
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,915
Why the hell should long standing Sydney clubs with their many fans be dumped,just to put a team in Perth.
Super league peace deal dumped teams,and gave a big leg up to the fumbling Swans.

I am not suggesting dumping any Sydney team, I would just let the weak teams die rather than prop them up. "Survival of the fittest" is the mantra our code is built on. These clubs have held the game back long enough.
 
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taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
I am not suggesting dumping any Sydney team, I would just let the weak teams die rather than prop them up. "Survival of the fittest" is mantra what our code is built on. These clubs have held the game back long enough.

How many times does it take to tell you,the NRL will be ensuring no NRL clubs will be in that position,with the new financing arrangements.

Our code is built on good management on the field and ditto offield at the front office.

Which clubs have held the game back long enough?

You'd let weak teams die,to give AFL a leg up,more like it.Just as happened when the Sydney ducks came into town.

What about all Sydney clubs being strong,wouldn't that be nice?
 

johnny plath

Juniors
Messages
405
It sounds like there will be a national reserve grade comp, which means NSW Cup and QLD Cup will be third tier comps.
where did you get this info, or are you reading between the lines. Only thing I recall seeing was Richos platinum league, and i get the feeling that that is just sitting on a shelf somewhere. I haven't seen anything firm on 2nd tier comps for a long time. If there is anything, could you provide a link, keen to have a look.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
where did you get this info, or are you reading between the lines. Only thing I recall seeing was Richos platinum league, and i get the feeling that that is just sitting on a shelf somewhere. I haven't seen anything firm on 2nd tier comps for a long time. If there is anything, could you provide a link, keen to have a look.

"Grant offered the NRLWA some hope, saying a Perth side would be aligned to an NRL club when the new second-tier competition started in two years.

“Nothing at the NRL level, that’s the salient point. Expansion at the new level, to the truly semi-professional level, that will be the natural pathway to the NRL and that’s the opportunity for WA,” he said"

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/s...ays-no-nrl-club-in-perth-for-six-years/#page1
 

johnny plath

Juniors
Messages
405
"Grant offered the NRLWA some hope, saying a Perth side would be aligned to an NRL club when the new second-tier competition started in two years.

“Nothing at the NRL level, that’s the salient point. Expansion at the new level, to the truly semi-professional level, that will be the natural pathway to the NRL and that’s the opportunity for WA,” he said"

https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/s...ays-no-nrl-club-in-perth-for-six-years/#page1

I saw that. ..but it's quite a jump from that article to say that were getting a national reserve grade and that q and nsw cups will be third tier. It could just mean that perth joins nsw cup and act as a feeder for an existing nrl team like sunshine coast does for melbourne in qcup.
 

alien

Referee
Messages
20,279
I saw that. ..but it's quite a jump from that article to say that were getting a national reserve grade and that q and nsw cups will be third tier. It could just mean that perth joins nsw cup and act as a feeder for an existing nrl team like sunshine coast does for melbourne in qcup.

Maybe, but the article says it will be a NEW second-tier comp, but I guess they might have got that wrong.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,915
Which clubs have held the game back long enough?

the clubs that are in the heartland but have needed assistance off the NRL above the NRL grant because they are poorly managed and attract small interest relative to strong clubs.
 

Billythekid

First Grade
Messages
6,837
They're pretty cautious and prudent at the NRL and Grant does have a point - look at how badly the Super Rugby expansions are unraveling and how much money the AFL has sunk into the CG and Western Sydney to almost zero effect (seriously, most their members are from interstate FFS).

The AFL have deeper pockets than we do still so they can take that hit, but frankly their focus group Melbourne team in Homebush are only really doing well on the field and hemorrhaging money off it.

So I do see logic in what they're doing with Perth from a longer term perspective. That said, I think they could stand to put more money in these regions than they are to get more schools playing the game and the local club comp up to a standard where they can be competing with sides in the NSW and QLD Cups

The comparisons to super rugby don't make sense. Rugby is a minor sport in this country. It has been haemorrhaging money, fans and player numbers since the 2003 world cup. The international game which they rely has also stagnated if not gone backwards in this country. The fact that they decided to expand when things were so dire was a mistake. I don't see how that's comparable to the NRL.

Likewise the AFL situation is totally different. The first important difference is that it costs twice as much to run an AFL team. Even if a Perth based team performed as poorly as GWS it wouldn't cost us nearly as much. That plus a lot of the lost money is on things not involving the club like media, juniors etc which they have to spend because Sydney doesn't care about the team.

On that point there is actually some demand for a Perth team. We've already seen sold out crowds in Perth and whilst the tv ratings aren't amazing they're pretty decent considering we have NO presence on the area. By comparison there was no demand for an AFL team in Sydney or on the GC. That reason alone means they were always going to have to spend more.

Let's not ignore that a Perth team would looks like it will be an accompanied by a Brisbane team who would likely be quite successful right away and not need the sort of investment the AFL teams need. That plus both teams work out very well for our tv schedule.

I'm just sick of hearing the same complaints. For the past 10-15 years we've been told that expansion can't be done because there isn't enough money in the game. Meanwhile membership numbers have exploded and look to be climbing still. Our next tv deal will be something like 4 times the one we had under Gallop (I don't have he exact numbers but the difference isassive). The game is in the best position it's ever been and things only look to be going up.

I just don't see how adding 2 teams, 1 of which is a sure bet to be successful and add to our tv deal is a big risk. That plus I think it's just backwards thinking. The most successful sports in the world didn't get there by sitting back and playing the long game. You have to some initiative to grow. The NRL and posters on here say to wait a few more years but in he mean time other sports aren't. The AFL continues to grow in Perth and Adelaide and by the time we do expand we will be facing FAR more competition.

IMO 2019 or 2020 is the time to expand and we should have a plan in place before then. For Perth the SOO held there is the perfect chance to see the area up for expansion. We had a sold out test this year, we're getting 2-3 NRL games a year hopefully followed by 2 world cup games next year culminating in a SOO match in 2019. The timing is just perfect. We need to announce a Perth team before that origin match (preferably 2018) and ride the wave of hype until they are admitted to the comp.

It's such a perfect opportunity that we would be foolish to waste it.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
the clubs that are in the heartland but have needed assistance off the NRL above the NRL grant because they are poorly managed and attract small interest relative to strong clubs.

I repeat which clubs are now poorly managed?

If that's the case better p*ss of GWS now.Drug issue involving officials and a player.Little or no interest relative to strong clubs.Turf the Brisbane Lions $13.5m in debt,poor management.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,915
I repeat which clubs are now poorly managed?

If that's the case better p*ss of GWS now.Drug issue involving officials and a player.Little or no interest relative to strong clubs.Turf the Brisbane Lions $13.5m in debt,poor management.

Cronulla, Tigers, Manly, St George.
 

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