What is the best way to count Premierships??

[johnny plath]

Do you have any teams on 21 or above?

If so, let them in the NRL. The meltdown from souffs fans about a club claiming equal or more than them will be glorious.

I always thought Valleys had 21 premierships. I found this as well, but not sure how accurate it is:

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/valleys-diehards-rugby-league-club.94808/

"The Fortitude Valley club is the oldest in Queensland and arguably the most famous.

The club formed in 1909 and won the first Rugby League competition conducted in Brisbane the same year.

Since its inception, Valleys have won a record 21 premierships - 14 since the formation of the Brisbane Rugby League in 1922.

Valleys were easily the most powerful club in the early days of the Brisbane competition, winning seven of the first eleven premierships.

The club has always boasted tradition and spirit with players, conscious of the "diehard" spirit synonomous with the famous royal blue jersey"

 

[Captain Apollo]

To answer the OP, I always thought with numbers was the best way

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

To answer the OP, I always thought with numbers was the best way

2 elephants and a cymbal fall off a cliff....

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

I always thought Valleys had 21 premierships. I found this as well, but not sure how accurate it is:

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/threads/valleys-diehards-rugby-league-club.94808/

"The Fortitude Valley club is the oldest in Queensland and arguably the most famous.

The club formed in 1909 and won the first Rugby League competition conducted in Brisbane the same year.

Since its inception, Valleys have won a record 21 premierships - 14 since the formation of the Brisbane Rugby League in 1922.

Valleys were easily the most powerful club in the early days of the Brisbane competition, winning seven of the first eleven premierships.

The club has always boasted tradition and spirit with players, conscious of the "diehard" spirit synonomous with the famous royal blue jersey"

Yeh, i just googled the BRL premierships. I forgot they had 15 years in the QRL before hand...

"Valley boys looking for their 25th First Grade premiership!!!!"

 

[Lambretta]

The only team I know of in Australian sport which transitioned between a State comp and a National comp was Port Adelaide and when they came in, they had to do so as a separate entity known as "Port Power". Port Adelaide only competed in the local competition in SA

Since then they've re-merged the first grade team with the rest of the club and count their history as a continuous thing since the 1870's

However their AFL Premiership tally reads as one
SANFL Premierships are counted separately

Premierships
AFL (1): 2004
SANFL (36): 1884, 1890, 1897, 1903, 1906, 1910, 1913, 1914, 1921, 1928, 1936, 1937, 1939, 1951, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999
Championship of Australia (4):
1890, 1910, 1913, 1914

 

[Valheru]

The only team I know of in Australian sport which transitioned between a State comp and a National comp was Port Adelaide and when they came in, they had to do so as a separate entity known as "Port Power". Port Adelaide only competed in the local competition in SA

Since then they've re-merged the first grade team with the rest of the club and count their history as a continuous thing since the 1870's

However their AFL Premiership tally reads as one
SANFL Premierships are counted separately

Premierships
AFL (1): 2004
SANFL (36): 1884, 1890, 1897, 1903, 1906, 1910, 1913, 1914, 1921, 1928, 1936, 1937, 1939, 1951, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999
Championship of Australia (4):
1890, 1910, 1913, 1914

Yeah it's a tough one the Port example. They still do have a Port team in the SANFL so I guess it is easier to separate them.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

If a BRL / QRL team got promoted to NRL, I'd love for their history to be recognised.

Maybe they need to start defining NRL records separately anyway.

 

[siv]

Can you piss of the SL broncos win in 97??

I'd your going to count non sanctioned competitions .. might as well count Panasonic cups

Why not count all senior competitions

FG RG 3G Midweek Cups Pre Season cups 7s 9s Post Season cups

 

[siv]

Thanks. I just always seem to remember, and you still hear old QLD blokes - Meninga, Vautin, etc - saying they went to Sydney comp for the 'challenge' and/or that it 'was the best comp, so test themselves', plus the money, inducements didn't hurt.

Anyway. BRL has some proud clubs. I'm sure if a Redcliffe Dolphins or some such got in to the NRL, which IMHO would be preferable in a way as they would have grassroots sewn, you'd like to see their past respected.

Redcliffe or Valleys would count against the QLD Cup tally

As that competition has become a reserve grade in its continuation

Just like Sydney reserve grade premierships now count as NSW Cup titles

At that level people can then brag about Valleys 21 titles verses Souths 20

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Souths have 20 First Grade and 20 Reserve Grade titles. So does that give them 40 to Valleys 21?

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

The only team I know of in Australian sport which transitioned between a State comp and a National comp was Port Adelaide and when they came in, they had to do so as a separate entity known as "Port Power". Port Adelaide only competed in the local competition in SA

Since then they've re-merged the first grade team with the rest of the club and count their history as a continuous thing since the 1870's

However their AFL Premiership tally reads as one
SANFL Premierships are counted separately

*aside from EVERY NSW team in RL and EVERY Vic team in the VFL.

(Which was literally the entire point of the thread.....)

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Why not count all senior competitions

FG RG 3G Midweek Cups Pre Season cups 7s 9s Post Season cups

This is the problem i have with the current tallies...

If we're going to count NSWRL from 1908, we should be counting NSW cup Premierships today aswell...

 

[Lambretta]

*aside from EVERY NSW team in RL and EVERY Vic team in the VFL.

(Which was literally the entire point of the thread.....)

They were in a different State comp to the one that was Nationalised though
I was more thinking along the lines of say Redcliffe or another Brisbane team transitioning to the NRL

The VFL became the AFL and the NSWRL became the ARL > NRL. It was a rebranding of the league, rather than teams being elected to join a completely different league whilst the previous league continued.

 

[Valheru]

*aside from EVERY NSW team in RL and EVERY Vic team in the VFL.

(Which was literally the entire point of the thread.....)

It's not even close to the same thing. The VFL just turned in to the AFL and NSWRL turned in to ARL/NRL. Obviously both 'nationalised' with an eye on expansion with Broncos. Raiders, West Coast and Adelaide being early expansion teams across both sports.

As it stands Port Adelaide is the only club from either code that has since joined the national comp from its pre-existing state based comp albeit whilst still having a team in said state comp.

 

[Pommy]

Who cares? It's only f**k wits who shout about it anyway.
I'm much more concerned about how many raiders are going to put past us on Sunday.

 

[DiegoNT]

How about 1 point for premierships pre 1988, 2 points for premierships between 88-96 1 point for premiership in the divided year, and 3 points for nrl premierships

Rabbitohs-23 points
Roosters-17 points
St george dragons- 15 points
Broncos- 14 points
Manly-14 points
Bulldogs-12 points
Balmain- 11 points
Raiders- 6 points
Storm- 6 points
Panthers- 5 points
Magpies-4 points
Newcastle- 4 points
Eels- 4 points
Cowboys 3 points
St george/illawarra- 3 points
Wests tigers- 3 points
Newtown- 3 points
Bears- 2 points
Gold coast, cronulla, warriors-0 points

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Souths have 20 First Grade and 20 Reserve Grade titles. So does that give them 40 to Valleys 21?

I'm so derpy I forgot we have 21 now.

Still surprises me.

As for counting, it keeps the happy clappers amused and tattoo artists in business. Other than that, I only care we beat the dogs, chooks, Tigers or saints, and the other eleven teams. And if we don't, c'est la vie.

 

[big hit!]

The only team I know of in Australian sport which transitioned between a State comp and a National comp was Port Adelaide and when they came in, they had to do so as a separate entity known as "Port Power". Port Adelaide only competed in the local competition in SA

Since then they've re-merged the first grade team with the rest of the club and count their history as a continuous thing since the 1870's

However their AFL Premiership tally reads as one
SANFL Premierships are counted separately

Premierships
AFL (1): 2004
SANFL (36): 1884, 1890, 1897, 1903, 1906, 1910, 1913, 1914, 1921, 1928, 1936, 1937, 1939, 1951, 1954, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 1999
Championship of Australia (4):
1890, 1910, 1913, 1914

You've got it the wrong way around. Don't be influenced by the change of moniker of the AFL team to 'Power' or the change of kit. This was required because Collingwood were already the Magpies in the AFL, and had a similar black and whute striped kit.

The Port Adelaide Football Club (PAFC) which was accepted and ended up playing in the AFL in 1997 was the original and same PAFC which was formed in the late 1800's, won all those SA League premierships, applied for and gained admission to the AFL, and won an AFL premiership in 2004.

The new club formed (a reverse merge of sorts) was the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club (PAMFC) that was formed to continue the Port Adelaide Magpies heritage in the SANFL from 1997 once PAFC started playing in the AFL. The SANFL insisted that the operations of the two clubs must be separate so the SANFL Port Adelaide didn't have an AFL-standard roster which would have been a massive advantage to the state side. Indeed, between 1998 and 2010, uninjured Port Adelaide AFL-roster players who weren't selected to play in the AFL side any given week were distributed across all the SANFL clubs for games, rather than all play for the Magpies.

In 2010, PAFC & PAMFC merged so now the club effectively has teams playing in two competitions as one club - PAFC. The SANFL team is basically it's reserves team in the state league now, but the club doesn't have any junior teams anymore. As you say, the club is considered to have won 1 AFL premiership, and 36 SANFL premierships.

The original PAMFC situation in being a new club but taking on the heritage and premierships of another operation is like that of the new Cleveland Browns. The original Cleveland Browns were re-located by then owner Art Modell to Baltimore in the 90s. Where it's different is that it ended up being a shit fight with the city of cleveland suing and Modell having to relinquish the identity, history and championships of the Browns, even though the Baltimore team was effectively the continuing Browns operation which had much of the same on-field and off-field personnel that played as the Cleveland Browns the year before. Modell's Baltimore team became the Ravens and the current Cleveland Browns were an expansion team a couple of years later, continuing the heritage of the original Browns Modell relocated.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

How about 1 point for premierships pre 1988, 2 points for premierships between 88-96 1 point for premiership in the divided year, and 3 points for nrl premierships

This has to be the worst suggestion i have heard....

We could say "only count premierships after the ARL was formed in 1925" or "after team X was introduced in 19--" or even "X Premierships before year ----, and X Premierships after".

But a points system is just too far into the ridiculous...

 

[siv]

How about this for a points system

10 points for a FG title / Club Championship
9 points for WCC / Australia Championship FG title
8 points for a pre season / midweek / post season title / Minor Premiership
7 points for a 7s or 9s title
6 points for a 2G / RG / NSW Cup / QLD Cup title / Tier 2 Aus Championship
5 points for 3G title (or U23s U21s or U20s)
4 points for U21s title
3 points for U19s title
2 points for U17 or U18s title
1 point for U15s or U16s title