Which team should relocate to western austrlia?

[jim_57]

The Titans biggest problem has been not investing in local talent. They were on the right track until they signed Hayne, then they let go of promising youngsters to fit JH in. Since then they have thrown big bucks at Taylor, Boyd and now trying to reel in Fifita. Injuries haven't helped.

They've been mismanaged on & off the field for the majority of their existence. I still believe there is plenty of potential there if they can get it together on the field.

 

[blue bags]

They've been mismanaged on & off the field for the majority of their existence. I still believe there is plenty of potential there if they can get it together on the field.

titans spanked the broncos tonight

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

They've been mismanaged on & off the field for the majority of their existence. I still believe there is plenty of potential there if they can get it together on the field.

They need leaders who have the long term vision to develop a team around local juniors. Gold Coasters are proud of their community and will be more inclined to get behind local players.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

titans spanked the broncos tonight

If Donkeys end up wooden spooners it will cap of the most unusual year in modern history.

 

[Perth Red]

Concern for me is broncos only sell around 60% of stadium capacity, we are hanging an awful lot on there being A massive disenfranchised group of rl supporters in Brisbane who will hitch their wagons to a new club.
Gus is totally right about how the afl absolutely puts us to shame in their methodical strategy planning and long term investment to grow their game. We still look like a chook raffle organisation in comparison.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Concern for me is broncos only sell around 60% of stadium capacity, we are hanging an awful lot on there being A massive disenfranchised group of rl supporters in Brisbane who will hitch their wagons to a new club.
Gus is totally right about how the afl absolutely puts us to shame in their methodical strategy planning and long term investment to grow their game. We still look like a chook raffle organisation in comparison.

Awful is lightyears ahead. They look at an area and see where it will be in 20, 30 and 40 years time. RL only sees 1 or 2 years ahead.

Logan and Ipswich are two areas that set to grow over the next 50 years. AwFuL knows this and have planned accordingly. There are only 2 fumbleball clubs in Logan vs 14 RL CLUBS, but AwFuL are not letting that get in their way. They have convinced the Logan City Council to gift them Cronulla Park on the corner of Compton Rd and Kingston Rd, Slacks Creek. The Council are in the midst of turning nearby Springwood into the city's CBD. It would be the ideal place for a stadium and Brisbane's second NRL club, as the motorway and southeast busway are nearby, making it easy to access.

I tried to contact the mongrel that is now mayor of Logan back in 2013 about putting an RL club at Cronulla Park. He never responded.

 

[Pj,Rj,Hj]

Concern for me is broncos only sell around 60% of stadium capacity, we are hanging an awful lot on there being A massive disenfranchised group of rl supporters in Brisbane who will hitch their wagons to a new club.
Gus is totally right about how the afl absolutely puts us to shame in their methodical strategy planning and long term investment to grow their game. We still look like a chook raffle organisation in comparison.

One thing I don't see getting mentioned enough is the very real potential for a second Brisbane team to be a net positive for the Broncos by galvanizing their supporter base.
The added geographical competition could and should be the shot in the arm the Broncos need.
One just has to look at the benefit the Fremantle Dockers had on the West Coast Eagles, even with the latter helping subsides the former through the WAFC. There's a lot of parallels between the Broncos and Eagles.
The Eagles were already wildly successful when the Dockers came in but it created a line in the sand scenario where once the Eagles had a semi engaged fan base as a given, a cross town rival whipped them into efficient shape. They have now a turnover of over $100 million ($90 million direct from AFL business, ie not Supporter pubs and other unrelated business), while the Dockers have a bigger turnover than the Broncos with not a Pokie in sight, even after being an onfield basket case for most of their existence.
I truly believe that with another Brisbane club, the Broncos memberships with also directly rise and that Suncorp will see consistent sellouts like the Eagles. The Broncos really should have an annual revenue that rivals the big AFL clubs, and I think that Brisbane 2 is the mechanism to achieve that.

 

[Perth Red]

One thing I don't see getting mentioned enough is the very real potential for a second Brisbane team to be a net positive for the Broncos by galvanizing their supporter base.
The added geographical competition could and should be the shot in the arm the Broncos need.
One just has to look at the benefit the Fremantle Dockers had on the West Coast Eagles, even with the latter helping subsides the former through the WAFC. There's a lot of parallels between the Broncos and Eagles.
The Eagles were already wildly successful when the Dockers came in but it created a line in the sand scenario where once the Eagles had a semi engaged fan base as a given, a cross town rival whipped them into efficient shape. They have now a turnover of over $100 million ($90 million direct from AFL business, ie not Supporter pubs and other unrelated business), while the Dockers have a bigger turnover than the Broncos with not a Pokie in sight, even after being an onfield basket case for most of their existence.
I truly believe that with another Brisbane club, the Broncos memberships with also directly rise and that Suncorp will see consistent sellouts like the Eagles. The Broncos really should have an annual revenue that rivals the big AFL clubs, and I think that Brisbane 2 is the mechanism to achieve that.

big point of difference though is that eagles had already sold all their ticketed memberships for capacity at subiaco and had 12,000 fans paying just to be on the waitlist. This meant there was a big fanbase who couldn’t get to an afl game in Perth and so they picked up a lot of that latent Eagles fanbase.
I don’t disagree though that broncos should in theory be as big as eagles, though You have to question if nrl is as popular as afl in the respective cities. It does seem that melbourne v Sydney and Perth/Adelaide v Brisbane afl has much more committed and larger fanbase for its teams than nrl can muster. Newcastle seems the only place where nrl is hugely popular to the point the population are motivated to attend games and buy memberships in great numbers per head of population,

 

[Pj,Rj,Hj]

big point of difference though is that eagles had already sold all their ticketed memberships for capacity at subiaco and had 12,000 fans paying just to be on the waitlist. This meant there was a big fanbase who couldn’t get to an afl game in Perth and so they picked up a lot of that latent Eagles fanbase.
I don’t disagree though that broncos should in theory be as big as eagles, though You have to question if nrl is as popular as afl in the respective cities. It does seem that melbourne v Sydney and Perth/Adelaide v Brisbane afl has much more committed and larger fanbase for its teams than nrl can muster. Newcastle seems the only place where nrl is hugely popular to the point the population are motivated to attend games and buy memberships in great numbers per head of population,

That wasn't the case in 1995 though, the membership waiting list came afterwards, thus the galvanizing of support. There was much more variance in Eagles attendance during their early 90's dominance (disregarding the WACA matches), Subi still had its standing terraces around half the ground. West Coast would one week get 40 000, the next get 25 000. If you want to see strong initial engagement, check out the Adelaide Crows from '91 inception to '93.

I do know what you meant about level of support between the cities and their sports but I've always had the perception (possible wrong) that Brisbane and the Broncos were a special case when u look at their initial ANZ Stadium attendance averages (only beaten at the time by the Adelaide Crows), that they should rival the big AFL clubs but haven't fully pulled their finger out. Thought of Brisbane as a better sport attending city than Sydney which fairly or unfairly has the perception of the most fickle sporting fans out of the major cities. As in the case of Perth vs Adelaide,the latter is far more one eyed Aussie Rules than former, Perth's maybe more home state parochial? and Perth's just bigger and has had more domestic league sporting success than Adelaide based teams in recent decades.

As for the thread title, any relocation of a team needs to be a full body and soul relocation. You can not have a half relocation / foot in both camps. Neither market would accept it. Not a chance (for examples sake) that Perth would accept a relocated Cronulla, Manly or NS Bears, for a 3rd of the "home" games to be played in Sydney. Any relocation needs to be a full restart with only small tributes to the former home going forward like how the Swans have the SMFC initials on their jerseys while still maintaining the history.

 

[Perth Red]

That wasn't the case in 1995 though, the membership waiting list came afterwards, thus the galvanizing of support. There was much more variance in Eagles attendance during their early 90's dominance (disregarding the WACA matches), Subi still had its standing terraces around half the ground. West Coast would one week get 40 000, the next get 25 000. If you want to see strong initial engagement, check out the Adelaide Crows from '91 inception to '93.

I do know what you meant about level of support between the cities and their sports but I've always had the perception (possible wrong) that Brisbane and the Broncos were a special case when u look at their initial ANZ Stadium attendance averages (only beaten at the time by the Adelaide Crows), that they should rival the big AFL clubs but haven't fully pulled their finger out. Thought of Brisbane as a better sport attending city than Sydney which fairly or unfairly has the perception of the most fickle sporting fans out of the major cities. As in the case of Perth vs Adelaide,the latter is far more one eyed Aussie Rules than former, Perth's maybe more home state parochial? and Perth's just bigger and has had more domestic league sporting success than Adelaide based teams in recent decades.

As for the thread title, any relocation of a team needs to be a full body and soul relocation. You can not have a half relocation / foot in both camps. Neither market would accept it. Not a chance (for examples sake) that Perth would accept a relocated Cronulla, Manly or NS Bears, for a 3rd of the "home" games to be played in Sydney. Any relocation needs to be a full restart with only small tributes to the former home going forward like how the Swans have the SMFC initials on their jerseys while still maintaining the history.

true but dockers didn’t hit the afl crowd avg of over 30k until 2004, when eagles were fully sold out. That big increase from 2003 onwards coincided with eagles jumping up to 40k avg in 2002 onwards which was subiaco capacity. At the moment if you want to back an nrl team and go to nrl games in Brisbane then there is a fortnightly opportunity with the Broncos, makes me wonder how many RL fans in Brisbane aren’t taking the opportunity, is it enough for the new club to be hitting 20k plus which is what they will need to financially compete with big brother.

with the new stadium you’ve got eagles with 53k and dockers with 41k avg which is pretty amazing for a city of 2.2million.

 

[mongoose]

big point of difference though is that eagles had already sold all their ticketed memberships for capacity at subiaco and had 12,000 fans paying just to be on the waitlist. This meant there was a big fanbase who couldn’t get to an afl game in Perth and so they picked up a lot of that latent Eagles fanbase.
I don’t disagree though that broncos should in theory be as big as eagles, though You have to question if nrl is as popular as afl in the respective cities. It does seem that melbourne v Sydney and Perth/Adelaide v Brisbane afl has much more committed and larger fanbase for its teams than nrl can muster. Newcastle seems the only place where nrl is hugely popular to the point the population are motivated to attend games and buy memberships in great numbers per head of population,

What are AFL TV ratings like in Perth though, are they better then RL ratings in Brisbane? I said in another thread there is a wide range of support in Brisbane for many NRL teams. Storm really do have strong support here and a few Sydney clubs are well supported. Is that the same in Perth with Melbourne AFL teams?

 

[Perth Red]

What are AFL TV ratings like in Perth though, are they better then RL ratings in Brisbane? I said in another thread there is a wide range of support in Brisbane for many NRL teams. Storm really do have strong support here and a few Sydney clubs are well supported. Is that the same in Perth with Melbourne AFL teams?

Surprisingly there is quite a bit of support for other teams. There's a lot of ex pat Vics here. My neighbors are Essendon fans due to him originally being from Melbourne. Rating wise Id say RL rates a bit higher in Brisbane, but that's just a gut feeling, haven't looked at the % difference compared to population % difference.
Perth people are very parochial so it might be that games featuring one of the Perth teams rates much higher than those which don't.

 

[blue bags]

north sydney bears can relocate to perth , one of the last clubs that left NRL
PERTH BEARs

 

[Perth Red]

north sydney bears can relocate to perth , one of the last clubs that left NRL
PERTH BEARs

They tried to get interest, there wasn't any. Its not the worse idea as long as the club is majority owned by West Australians and there is a 100% no relocation back to Sydney clause in the license agreement. Bears have been dead long enough that I doubt there would be much animosity to them from existing NRL fans in WA. A Sydney Bears membership that saw any Bears fans left able to see them for the 6 or 7 games played in NSW on top of the WA members would see a healthy following. The make or break would be how much control the NS LC would want.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Question for those doubting the immediate popularity of a second Brisbane team... the Broncos on average draw 30k to games. Does it really matter if in the short term that drops to say 26-27k whilst the new club draws 15-20k (which are conservative figures)? The net results is 40 - 45k people attending Brisbane every fortnight compared to 30k now.

Also, if the new Brisbane club were drawing 15-20k, they would still be a top 5 attend club in the league, would draw the league average attendance up, would provide Brisbane with a weekly game (it's a joke that it already isn't the case in a Rugby League heartland and hotbed).

All of that is just a starting point. Given time, the Broncos attendances will recover to 30k and with success the new clubs' average attendances will creep to 25k. Hell, the Crushers averaged 23k in 1995 until the SL war rot set in. Brisbane is a RL hardcore city it is a no brainer.

The AFL and RU rub their hands together every day that the Lions and Reds get the clear air of not having a second NRL club to deal with, it is a joke!

 

[Perth Red]

Wouldn't make much difference to Brisbane as they make a few mill profit every year anyway and have a revenue far in excess of anyone else. I'd be more concerned about battle for sponsors with Titans as they are at far more risk. Also unless some very wealthy backers a new club only avg'ing 15k is going to find it hard to compete with Broncos for the hearts and minds of Brisbane and an empty Suncorp isnt going to be any more appealing than an empty Allianz or ANZ. They need to hit the ground running with 20k plus or it will be struggle street imo and as we have seen time and again the first 6-7 years are crucial.

 

[jim_57]

north sydney bears can relocate to perth , one of the last clubs that left NRL
PERTH BEARs

Adelaide Bears. Very tenuous link could be made to Adelaide Zoo being the only Pandas in Australia I guess. Red is a state colour, black & white = panda. Best I've got.

Wouldn't make much difference to Brisbane as they make a few mill profit every year anyway and have a revenue far in excess of anyone else. I'd be more concerned about battle for sponsors with Titans as they are at far more risk. Also unless some very wealthy backers a new club only avg'ing 15k is going to find it hard to compete with Broncos for the hearts and minds of Brisbane and an empty Suncorp isnt going to be any more appealing than an empty Allianz or ANZ. They need to hit the ground running with 20k plus or it will be struggle street imo and as we have seen time and again the first 6-7 years are crucial.

Titans sponsors are either national companies (Neds, TFH) or local GC companies (Village Roadshow, Fizzelle Motors, See Civil). The national ones could already sponsor 15 other NRL clubs, might be that Gold Coast is an area they want to target or Gold Coast sponsorship is more within their budget. Local ones wouldn't be much of a threat to jumping ship to Brisbane 2.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Wouldn't make much difference to Brisbane as they make a few mill profit every year anyway and have a revenue far in excess of anyone else. I'd be more concerned about battle for sponsors with Titans as they are at far more risk. Also unless some very wealthy backers a new club only avg'ing 15k is going to find it hard to compete with Broncos for the hearts and minds of Brisbane and an empty Suncorp isnt going to be any more appealing than an empty Allianz or ANZ. They need to hit the ground running with 20k plus or it will be struggle street imo and as we have seen time and again the first 6-7 years are crucial.

I have zero dout that they will average 20k as a very minimum quite easily (see Crushers example 25 years ago) but, let's be conservative and say it starts at 15k, it is still a win and will grow from there. I can all but guarantee that some RL fans will jump on board just as an F.U. Broncos, they are well supported but are a polorising club here and far from capture as much of the city as they should.

What a new clubs aim should be is to be the people's team of Brisbane, be well run and recruit local talent intelligently. The aim for them is to get the kids of current RL fans that don't follow the Broncs drawn in. If they do this right, there is no reason they can't be averaging the same or more than the Broncs in 20 - 25 years time and we've grown the RL pie in Brisbane.

A solid rivalry also guarantees at least one sell-out game for each club each year.

 

[Pj,Rj,Hj]

What are AFL TV ratings like in Perth though, are they better then RL ratings in Brisbane? I said in another thread there is a wide range of support in Brisbane for many NRL teams. Storm really do have strong support here and a few Sydney clubs are well supported. Is that the same in Perth with Melbourne AFL teams?

Kinda hard to find an apples to apples comparison but I believe the Bronco's have higher Brisbane views than West Coast has Perth viewers.
Apparently West Coast averages 143000 Perth viewers on FTA, not sure about Fox or Kayo (WA never had the uptake of other states per capita) but I doubt it's tens of thousands more. West Coast is second to Collingwood on Telstra streaming with 51.8million views.
http://www.footyindustry.com/?p=4889

This actually brings up a good question of the benefit of the Perth time slot to the NRL.
Granted there is potential for that -2hours time slot to be a winner but like in the AFL, the fixture will be done to suit the Eastern States markets, Not to suit the WA market.
While the Broncos get a lot of the marquee time slots in the fixtures, West Coast and Fremantle don't get anywhere near as many of the big rating winners of Thursday and Friday night in the AFL as their onfield performance or financial muscle would suggest, because the match time is scheduled for the Eastern markets, which usually runs straight into Peak hour in Perth, with many still stuck at work.
The public transport which both Optus Stadium and HBF Park so heavily rely is pushed uncomfortable levels of congestion.
Thus the WA AFL clubs generally get the dud time slots like Sunday twilight, with the league knowing they are financially strong enough to take the hit, while avoiding the winge-fest (which happens) of the big 4 Melbourne clubs if they dare put them in that slot god forbid. Would be interesting to see the estimates on how much this affects the viewer numbers of the WA AFL clubs, for the worse or negligible.

Rugby League being a shorter game could help the Perth viewers in this case as Kickoff at 6:30pm AWST would help attendees and Perth TV views so much more than the AFL's 5:40/5:50pm bounce downs.

 

[Pippen94]

Forget Perth