Which team should relocate to western austrlia?

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

One thing that the AFL got right IMO was that their relocations were to NON-AFL centres. I don't think Adelaide or Perth in the early 1980s would have accepted a transplanted South Melbourne Swans, in the same way I seriously doubt a relocated Sydney NRL team would be accepted in Brisbane.

I guess the sticking point is that WA has put a lot of effort into establishing their own bid brand in the West Coast Pirates (I'm unsure whether any similar moves were made in Sydney to join the VFL in the early 80s, before the Swans became the option?)... the key question then becomes "if relocation is the *only* way into the NRL, is WA willing to sacrifice their bid brand for a place in the competition?"

A team of their own sounds great, but there are many drawbacks to doing that in hostile territory. Brisbane Bears found that out. Suns ans Giants finding out the hard way too.

What I really like about Western Tigers is it has the safety net of falling back on its Sydney fanbase should things go awry in Perth. Having access to pokies at Wests Leagues Club will generate much needed revenue. Black and gold fit in with the official colours of WA.

 

[Perth Red]

One thing that the AFL got right IMO was that their relocations were to NON-AFL centres. I don't think Adelaide or Perth in the early 1980s would have accepted a transplanted South Melbourne Swans, in the same way I seriously doubt a relocated Sydney NRL team would be accepted in Brisbane.

I guess the sticking point is that WA has put a lot of effort into establishing their own bid brand in the West Coast Pirates (I'm unsure whether any similar moves were made in Sydney to join the VFL in the early 80s, before the Swans became the option?)... the key question then becomes "if relocation is the *only* way into the NRL, is WA willing to sacrifice their bid brand for a place in the competition?"

No the sticking point is no club wants to move, has to move or has any intention of ever moving! You can play hypotheticals of relocations all day but reality is the only chance it would happen is if a club went bust and could not find a new owner/investor, had to give the license back to NRL and NRL decided to give it to another city. But that hasnt happened in the history of NRL and is highly unlikely to under Vlandys. The only two clubs at any risk of it are Manly and Sharks. Sharks still have a buffer of the sale money left an dhav epaid off most of their debts, and Manly have other owners waiting to take over if Penn walks. Unless Sydney people wake up to the follies of gambling or the new Brisbane club hurts the Titans revenue badly then it just isnt going to happen.

 

[flippikat]

No the sticking point is no club wants to move, has to move or has any intention of ever moving!

You can play hypotheticals of relocations all day but reality is the only chance it would happen is if a club went bust and could not find a new owner/investor, had to give the license back to NRL and NRL decided to give it to another city. But that hasnt happened in the history of NRL and is highly unlikely to under Vlandys. The only two clubs at any risk of it are Manly and Sharks. Sharks still have a buffer of the sale money left an dhav epaid off most of their debts, and Manly have other owners waiting to take over if Penn walks. Unless Sydney people wake up to the follies of gambling or the new Brisbane club hurts the Titans revenue badly then it just isnt going to happen.

Fair point to open with, and I think I may have falsely assumed the Perth fans & WARL community's attitude towards relocation. Sure, the Pirates are the desired identity, but I can see that if any club came knocking with an honest plan to relocate to Perth that the locals wouldn't say "nope, Pirates or nothing."

If blame is to be laid re: relocation (or rather, the downright lack of even *pondering* relocation), the NRL commission needs to shoulder a lot of it. The endless bailouts and the constant guarantees that no Sydney club will need to move are particularly spineless.

No club is going to go bust, because the NRL just won't let them - and the bailouts come with few - if any - strings, when it comes to the footprint of the game & the oversaturation of Sydney.

If (in the post-Covid environment) the game can only afford 16 or 17 top tier clubs, real decisions have to be made, and relocation is the only way of preserving brands, keeping the size manageable, and growing the game.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Fair point to open with, and I think I may have falsely assumed the Perth fans & WARL community's attitude towards relocation. Sure, the Pirates are the desired identity, but I can see that if any club came knocking with an honest plan to relocate to Perth that the locals wouldn't say "nope, Pirates or nothing."

If blame is to be laid re: relocation (or rather, the downright lack of even *pondering* relocation), the NRL commission needs to shoulder a lot of it. The endless bailouts and the constant guarantees that no Sydney club will need to move are particularly spineless.

No club is going to go bust, because the NRL just won't let them - and the bailouts come with few - if any - strings, when it comes to the footprint of the game & the oversaturation of Sydney.

Sage and Cumins could get the ball rolling by approaching the Tigers. Give them an offer that’s too good to refuse and they would be mad to knock it back.

I know Perth wants its own team, but buying into a Sydney team is a far safer option. It will be easier to recruit players to a team that has ties to Sydney. Something similar could be done with Adelaide.

 

[flippikat]

Sage and Cumins could get the ball rolling by approaching the Tigers. Give them an offer that’s too good to refuse and they would be mad to knock it back.

I know Perth wants its own team, but buying into a Sydney team is a far safer option. It will be easier to recruit players to a team that has ties to Sydney. Something similar could be done with Adelaide.

If only it were that straightforward. Wests Ashfield would face a huge fan uproar if they fell under the spell of a big-money offer to relocate.. especially when they have the NRL commission guaranteeing they (along with every other club) has a future as-is, where-is.

No, the real motivation for a club to relocate is an existential crisis with no safety net, and no other viable alternative to stay in the top tier - and that just won't happen under the current administration.

 

[T-Boon]

No, the real motivation for a club to relocate is an existential crisis with no safety net, and no other viable alternative to stay in the top tier - and that just won't happen under the current administration.

The NRL could offer “irresistible terms” for a club to relocate to Perth for 6 games. Let clubs bid, best proposal wins the right to relocate. Gets $2mill in bonus salary cap space. Plus what ever. (If that’s too much bring it down to $1mill)

 

[flippikat]

The NRL could offer “irresistible terms” for a club to relocate to Perth for 6 games. Let clubs bid, best proposal wins the right to relocate. Gets $2mill in bonus salary cap space. Plus what ever. (If that’s too much bring it down to $1mill)

I think you make a good point that just money isn't enough (the NRL is always gonna bail out clubs anyway.. so that motivation of more cash is kinda limited).. but a competitive advantage, like more salary cap - well, now you're talking!

 

[Perth Red]

Sage and Cumins could get the ball rolling by approaching the Tigers. Give them an offer that’s too good to refuse and they would be mad to knock it back.

I know Perth wants its own team, but buying into a Sydney team is a far safer option. It will be easier to recruit players to a team that has ties to Sydney. Something similar could be done with Adelaide.

Lay off the drink, Tigers are one of the best supported clubs in Sydney and have a LC with money to bankroll them. Why exactly do you think they would have any interest in relocating to the other side of the country!

I also doubt PERTH would get behind half a club that had a constant likelihood of one day moving back to Sydney and abandoning the place

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Lay off the drink, Tigers are one of the best supported clubs in Sydney and have a LC with money to bankroll them. Why exactly do you think they would have any interest in relocating to the other side of the country!

I also doubt PERTH would get behind half a club that had a constant likelihood of one day moving back to Sydney and abandoning the place

Games they play against interstate teams do not draw big crowds. Why not take those games to Perth instead of playing in front of less than 10,000 people at Campbelltown?

If they can make more money from these games by taking them to Perth then why wouldn't they do so?

We've seen Manly, Souths and Parramatta take games interstate for money.

You're not getting a brand new team within the next 5-10 years, so why not do what Darwin and Cairns did and entice a Sydney team to adopt Perth as its second base?

If there's as much appetite for RL in Perth as you say there is then both parties will benefit. The extra money made from the arrangement could be used to make the club more competitive off the field so they can compete with the big guns.

 

[Perth Red]

Games they play against interstate teams do not draw big crowds. Why not take those games to Perth instead of playing in front of less than 10,000 people at Campbelltown?

If they can make more money from these games by taking them to Perth then why wouldn't they do so?

We've seen Manly, Souths and Parramatta take games interstate for money.

You're not getting a brand new team within the next 5-10 years, so why not do what Darwin and Cairns did and entice a Sydney team to adopt Perth as its second base?

If there's as much appetite for RL in Perth as you say there is then both parties will benefit. The extra money made from the arrangement could be used to make the club more competitive off the field so they can compete with the big guns.

because they don’t want to and dont need to! And it doesn’t give WA RL fans what they are craving, a club to get behind for a lifetime. We were going to get three nrl games this year before covid stuffed that up.

 

[T-Boon]

because they don’t want to and dont need to! And it doesn’t give WA RL fans what they are craving, a club to get behind for a lifetime. We were going to get three nrl games this year before covid stuffed that up.

I think you could argue that all/any of the Sydney clubs would be better off leaving Sydney (particularly if they did it in a way that retained their link to Sydney).
And as for the WARL fans not getting what they want: you don't always get what you want, you should aim to get what you need.
The WARL community could invite someone over for 6 games each year. Lock that in for 5 years with some government sponsorship and in that 5 years convince the Tigers/Panthers or whoever to relocate on a permanent basis.
6 games would be plenty for Perth right now, 12 would be too many as it already is in Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

I think you could argue that all/any of the Sydney clubs would be better off leaving Sydney (particularly if they did it in a way that retained their link to Sydney).
And as for the WARL fans not getting what they want: you don't always get what you want, you should aim to get what you need.
The WARL community could invite someone over for 6 games each year. Lock that in for 5 years with some government sponsorship and in that 5 years convince the Tigers/Panthers or whoever to relocate on a permanent basis.
6 games would be plenty for Perth right now, 12 would be too many as it already is in Sydney.

again why would the Tigers want to move 6 games away from their fans and sponsors? They don’t need the money and they don’t need the new fans, being one of the biggest fanbases in sydney. I could see Cronulla a few years ago before the property deal when they were in dire straights but that is the only time any club would consider it, and no club is in that situation.

I’m sure most rl fans here would be pleased if someone brought 6 games a year here but knowing it was short term were not going to become members or generate a real passion for them. We need a WA club we can get behind and our kids can aspire to play for.

 

[T-Boon]

again why would the Tigers want to move 6 games away from their fans and sponsors? They don’t need the money and they don’t need the new fans, being one of the biggest fanbases in sydney.

They don't need the new fans????
Well, yeah, I guess my idea pre supposes at least a small degree of ambition. Growth. They aren't going to grow in Sydney as its too crowded.
Essentially the majority of good arguments you make in favour of having a brand new Perth team in the NRL apply also to having a Sydney team gradually shift across.

What about if the Tigers/Panthers/Sharks or whoever decide they like the idea of having an entire city of 2mill to themselves to develop for RL players for themselves. One thing that must grind on Tigers fans is developing a future immortal and then seeing him skip across town (probably without even leaving home) to a bitter rival to win multiple premierships for them. The Tigers will always have that problem in Western Sydney because there are so many other clubs a player can easily skip to.

A gradual shift across by a club could be done well and could be great.
They could team up with a Perth bid over there and the government and the NRL to get some benefits etc. 95% f fans watch on TV now so who cares where your team is located.

 

[The_Frog]

One thing that must grind on Tigers fans is developing a future immortal and then seeing him skip across town (probably without even leaving home) to a bitter rival to win multiple premierships for them.

One of the reasons he's not my favourite player. At least Fittler was offered the Australian captaincy.

 

[T-Boon]

One of the reasons he's not my favourite player. At least Fittler was offered the Australian captaincy.

That's the worst thing about so many Sydney clubs. Its too easy for players to move between Sydney clubs and too painful to the fan base to see your favourite player playing for a club in the same city, they are in your face every day. Its pretty insulting. Its like your wife moving in with the neighbour.
If a player moves club it should be a life changing decision for them, having to move to a new city etc where the fans of the old club don't have to see them very often. This is the advantage 1 team cities have.

 

[Perth Red]

That's the worst thing about so many Sydney clubs. Its too easy for players to move between Sydney clubs and too painful to the fan base to see your favourite player playing for a club in the same city, they are in your face every day. Its pretty insulting. Its like your wife moving in with the neighbour.
If a player moves club it should be a life changing decision for them, having to move to a new city etc where the fans of the old club don't have to see them very often. This is the advantage 1 team cities have.

thats not an advantage, being able to attract a player without having to change the kids school, wife leave her job and move house is an advantage in recruitment!

 

[T-Boon]

thats not an advantage, being able to attract a player without having to change the kids school, wife leave her job and move house is an advantage in recruitment!

The advantage in that once there they are less likely to leave meaning you are more likely to be able to keep players who fans have grown attached to than a club in Sydney. So you don't have the fans dealing with a broken heart such as the Tigers fans did in the case of Tedesco and to a lesser extent Moses. That type of fiasco makes a clubs fans more likely to disengaging with their club and the game.

A Perth team would try to recruit like Melbourne does. Identify the best talent at a young age (before they are married and have roots where they are at) and who are open to moving to a great city.

 

[blue bags]

 

[jim_57]

Gould is surprisingly pretty accurate here, I thought some Sydney bias would show through. Outright dismissing Central Coast and naming Bris2, Perth, Adelaide & NZ2. Good to see someone talking sense about how the Titans could be so much better and not just throwing out the cliche "it won't ever work on the Gold Coast".

Gallen saying Brisbane shouldn't have another team because Broncos havent won a premiership in a while. That settles it then the next 2 new teams should be in Bondi & Melbourne.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Gould is surprisingly pretty accurate here, I thought some Sydney bias would show through. Outright dismissing Central Coast and naming Bris2, Perth, Adelaide & NZ2. Good to see someone talking sense about how the Titans could be so much better and not just throwing out the cliche "it won't ever work on the Gold Coast".

Gallen saying Brisbane shouldn't have another team because Broncos havent won a premiership in a while. That settles it then the next 2 new teams should be in Bondi & Melbourne.

The Titans biggest problem has been not investing in local talent. They were on the right track until they signed Hayne, then they let go of promising youngsters to fit JH in. Since then they have thrown big bucks at Taylor, Boyd and now trying to reel in Fifita. Injuries haven't helped.