Who is the bigger scum?

[Bulldog Benny]

Ah, an empty page. Why does this not shock me? :lol:

Yep its clear from your posts it doesnt hurt you a bit lol

It did hurt a bit at the time losing the premierships but in saying that the right decision was made. Though i can assure you i moved on from that a long time ago and only savouring being the current premiers.

And how a Dogs fan can possibly criticize the Storm's cheating when his own club have form for the same thing and were allowed to win a comp with virtually the same squad is absolutely beyond me :lol:

There's some dumb f**ks around here and in your 20 posts so far it's clear you're already right up there with the best of them.

 

[Bulldog Benny]

1-2 is still -1.

 

[thorson1987]

LOL... that'll do me!

How many Grand Finals did each club make during breach period:

Storm: 4
Bulldogs: 0

How many Minor Premierships were won by each club:

Storm: 2
Bulldogs: 0

How many Premierships were won by each club during breaches?

Storm: 2
Bulldogs: 0

How much prize money did each club win, and then have to pay back after breaches were discovered?

Storm: $1,000,000
Bulldogs: $0.00

How many years did each clubs breaches go for:

Storm: 5
Bulldogs: 2

To reiterate... you said: Almost identical :lol: :lol: :lol:

The only difference if the dogs got caught a lot earlier.

You think they would have stopped on their own accord if they weren't caught.

And btw, the dogs did lose a minor premiership. They had it sewn up in 02.

 

[DoggiesBroke]

Bulldog Force often misses the finer details.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Very few players make it into first grade playing for the team that is represented by the area where their parents live.

Most clubs identify young players playing in the youth comps around the country and then bring them to their clubs to be developed through the youth system which is now the NYC.

There appear to be 15 junior clubs in the Cronulla Sutherland area for example. Now what level of involvement and development, funding etc does the Cronulla club have with those fifteen clubs from their area? Did they set them up? Do the Cronulla board appoint people to run those clubs? Do they choose the managers, the programs, the training regimes, the trainers etc or is that left to the individual clubs to organise themselves?

Just who are the young juniors actually playing for? Other than Souths juniors (a completely separate entity from South Sydney) all junior players pay a fee to register to play for a local club - they're not enticed to play by the first grade clubs themselves.

Please bear in mind that this is a genuine query and I'm not being funny. But it seems to me that supporters seem to place a massive level of emphasis on where people happened to be living when kids first became interested in Rugby League and they seem to place all the kudos and thanks to the actual clubs for developing the skills of these kids.

Where to my way of thinking, the Juniors clubs don't seem to have as direct a link to the actual clubs in their districts as we're possibly led to believe.

Now I'm happy to be proven wrong, but surely recognising the talents of a young player and bringing them through the set up at your club from youth team to first grade is just as important, if not more so than where that person happened to start playing junior football.

Well said Lambretta

 

[LESStar58]

Yep its clear from your posts it doesnt hurt you a bit lol

It did hurt a bit at the time losing the premierships but in saying that the right decision was made. Though i can assure you i moved on from that a long time ago and only savouring being the current premiers.

And how a Dogs fan can possibly criticize the Storm's cheating when his own club have form for the same thing and were allowed to win a comp with virtually the same squad is absolutely beyond me :lol:

There's some dumb f**ks around here and in your 20 posts so far it's clear you're already right up there with the best of them.

This.

If the Dogs were attempting to keep the players they developed in '02 by any means possible I'm all for it.
Jealous wanker ranting and raving about the team that is showing the others the way will get you nowhere,
and if you're really worried about criminal activities you should be soapboxing your team's relocation.

And THIS.

 

[LESStar58]

1-2 is still -1.

2012 Premiers: Storm is still better than 2012 runners up: Bulldogs.

 

[LESStar58]

LOL... that'll do me!

How many Grand Finals did each club make during breach period:

Storm: 4
Bulldogs: 0

How many Minor Premierships were won by each club:

Storm: 2
Bulldogs: 0

How many Premierships were won by each club during breaches?

Storm: 2
Bulldogs: 0

How much prize money did each club win, and then have to pay back after breaches were discovered?

Storm: $1,000,000
Bulldogs: $0.00

How many years did each clubs breaches go for:

Storm: 5
Bulldogs: 2

To reiterate... you said: Almost identical :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think if 2012 proved anything it's that Melbourne would have scooped the pool in those 5 years even if they were under the cap. It's a shame we will never know.

And would the Dogs have kept up their practices of 2002 if they were never caught ealy in the peace? If Waldron was smart enough to keep it up for 5 years then smart money says Noad or whoever was the Dogs CEO at the time could have kept it going longer as well.

In any case: 14-4. Enjoy.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Nigel Vangana went to Cronulla and if memory serves he was the only player of any note that went elsewhere though I will happily stand corrected.

The main problem with the breach, was how much we were paying depth players like all 3 hughes brothers who deserved no where near the amount they were getting paid.

And we did pay a price in 2004 by losing a lot of players that year to other clubs.

 

[Jason Maher]

Very few players make it into first grade playing for the team that is represented by the area where their parents live.

Most clubs identify young players playing in the youth comps around the country and then bring them to their clubs to be developed through the youth system which is now the NYC.

There appear to be 15 junior clubs in the Cronulla Sutherland area for example. Now what level of involvement and development, funding etc does the Cronulla club have with those fifteen clubs from their area? Did they set them up? Do the Cronulla board appoint people to run those clubs? Do they choose the managers, the programs, the training regimes, the trainers etc or is that left to the individual clubs to organise themselves?

Just who are the young juniors actually playing for? Other than Souths juniors (a completely separate entity from South Sydney) all junior players pay a fee to register to play for a local club - they're not enticed to play by the first grade clubs themselves.

Please bear in mind that this is a genuine query and I'm not being funny. But it seems to me that supporters seem to place a massive level of emphasis on where people happened to be living when kids first became interested in Rugby League and they seem to place all the kudos and thanks to the actual clubs for developing the skills of these kids.

Where to my way of thinking, the Juniors clubs don't seem to have as direct a link to the actual clubs in their districts as we're possibly led to believe.

Now I'm happy to be proven wrong, but surely recognising the talents of a young player and bringing them through the set up at your club from youth team to first grade is just as important, if not more so than where that person happened to start playing junior football.

Blokes like Matai, El Masri, and the Hughes boys would have come through Matthews, Flegg, and SG Ball, then into U20s (I forget at which point one the junior rep comps actually became the U20s), Premier League, and finally NRL. The likes of Mason, Price, Smith, and Anasta never played in the Dogs junior system at all. They were very much developed elsewhere, and purchased as a finished product. That was the distinction I was making.

I've seen Roosters fans make the argument that where a player makes their first grade debut is what matters. I cannot agree, for the fact that it allows teams to claim credit for developing players they simply poached from another team's Toyota Cup squad. BJ Leilua and Kane Linnett both debuted for the Roosters, but they had absolutely nothing to do with the development of either player. Similarly, although it is highly likely Josh Drinkwater will debut for us at some point this year, we can't claim any credit whatsoever for developing him. He is clearly a Manly junior in every sense. A few games for the Cutters while Price realises how shit Fien is doesn't change that.

 

[byrner]

So your asking if someone is scum because they broke a contract and changed jobs?
Its not like he has touched a little kid or stolen from a blind woman.

Ask yourself, would you leave your current job if :
1) your boss tried to tell u who you can/cant associate with?
2) all of your top performing colleagues left and you were expected to pick up the slack with no little support?
3) a company in a similar field offered you more than double the money to work half as much?

When you put the whole thing in perspective, can you really blame him for leaving?

 

[dogslife]

Blokes like Matai, El Masri, and the Hughes boys would have come through Matthews, Flegg, and SG Ball, then into U20s (I forget at which point one the junior rep comps actually became the U20s), Premier League, and finally NRL. The likes of Mason, Price, Smith, and Anasta never played in the Dogs junior system at all. They were very much developed elsewhere, and purchased as a finished product. That was the distinction I was making.

A bloke who's never played first grade is far from a finished product. Willie Mason had played u17's with the Hunter Mariners the year before he signed with us, hardly what I'd call a finished product. Same goes for the vast majority of the blokes in that squad

 

[dogslife]

So your asking if someone is scum because they broke a contract and changed jobs?
Its not like he has touched a little kid or stolen from a blind woman.

Ask yourself, would you leave your current job if :
1) your boss tried to tell u who you can/cant associate with?
2) all of your top performing colleagues left and you were expected to pick up the slack with no little support?
3) a company in a similar field offered you more than double the money to work half as much?

When you put the whole thing in perspective, can you really blame him for leaving?

Do you sign 5 year contracts to stay with your current employer?

 

[Peter_phelps]

It's almost ironic hearing Bulldog fans speaking on SBW's lack of ethics.

I'd also would love for one of their fans to explain how the ANZ can be used as a 3rd party sponsor by the club?

I am not a dogs fan, but you are competent enough to understand that fans don't breach a salary cap?
Unless your trying to convince me, that if your raiders were found over the salary cap, that you would stop supporting them?

 

[Hanscholo]

mmmmm yea.

 

[Jason Maher]

Um... the Raiders were found over the salary cap.

 

[POPEYE]

Blokes like Matai, El Masri, and the Hughes boys would have come through Matthews, Flegg, and SG Ball, then into U20s (I forget at which point one the junior rep comps actually became the U20s), Premier League, and finally NRL. The likes of Mason, Price, Smith, and Anasta never played in the Dogs junior system at all. They were very much developed elsewhere, and purchased as a finished product. That was the distinction I was making.

I've seen Roosters fans make the argument that where a player makes their first grade debut is what matters. I cannot agree, for the fact that it allows teams to claim credit for developing players they simply poached from another team's Toyota Cup squad. BJ Leilua and Kane Linnett both debuted for the Roosters, but they had absolutely nothing to do with the development of either player. Similarly, although it is highly likely Josh Drinkwater will debut for us at some point this year, we can't claim any credit whatsoever for developing him. He is clearly a Manly junior in every sense. A few games for the Cutters while Price realises how shit Fien is doesn't change that.

Disagree, you have to have a starting point and imo NRL is it because that's where the salary cap is recognised.
Toyota Cup and below are just a shopping centre where anyone can purchase a bargain and make the best they
can of it. A player given the opportunity to make a career of League is indebted to the club that initiated it.

 

[bottle]

Pops back to defending the indefensible. Who let him out of his box? Go back to your self imposed yabbie hole ffs.
Cheats are cheats, full stop.
The Dogs and Storm both have demonstrated that it's well worth while to rort the system because of the enormity of the residual benefits. Risk getting caught? Pfffft. Who cares? You'll get the benefit down the track.
None of this detracts from the fact that $BW is devoid of ethics. He just happens to be someone who will be a very wealthy person devoid of ethics.
Isn't the first, won't be the last.

 

[Bulldog Force]

I think if 2012 proved anything it's that Melbourne would have scooped the pool in those 5 years even if they were under the cap. It's a shame we will never know.

And would the Dogs have kept up their practices of 2002 if they were never caught ealy in the peace? If Waldron was smart enough to keep it up for 5 years then smart money says Noad or whoever was the Dogs CEO at the time could have kept it going longer as well.

In any case: 14-4. Enjoy.

Why are you having a go at me? I'm not having a go at you, I'm simply stating to OP how different the 2 situations were. Sure they were both serious, but at the same time they were on a different scale. People can argue that Bob Hagen or Wally Waldron (yes I know his first name is Brian) could've kept it going longer or what have you, but the bottom line... no one will ever know!

 

[Evenflow]

Why are you having a go at me?

I'll have a stab in the dark. Because you're an out and out halfwit?