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Who should be the new team ?

doctor death

Juniors
Messages
364
ngboy

You're a genius.

Singo pays significant cash for a research project to back his case - all open for scrutiny.

Gold Coast have a Manly pizza boy who quotes 5 year old ABS stats.

As for the comment, "if the 15 CEO's got to vote" - why do you think the CC Bears are ignored. Because, they know the GC will again be a non-threatening flop whereas the current clubs are scared to death of a powerful CC Bears team.

In future, if you're going to contest an issue, try and actually make a point!
 

doctor death

Juniors
Messages
364
Sir Clifford GC said:
A central coast side
who relies on the north shore hmm
so what you blokes are talking about is not expansion but ressurection

How long will the bears stay on the coast for, lets call it what it is Norths using the CC region to get back in the NRL.

Misty Bee funny thing is your club are one of the big supporters of a Gold Coast side.

Id love to see it go to a vote from the CEOs
the gold coast would win hands down.

Dough Boy

The CC Bears will be fed by juniors of north shore and the central coast. It will be phenomenally powerful very quickly.

If i remember correctly, Fitzgerald is in favour of a Central Coast team and wants to piss Manly off. Wise man.

My greatest concern is that, if the CC Bears gets voted in, Manly might pull off a dodgy deal again and try to relocate in our place again for more Murdoch money - again.
 

nqboy

First Grade
Messages
8,914
Misty Bee said:
Average Crowds: Gold Coast v Central Coast/North Sydney

1997:
North Sydney (NSO) 11803
Gold Coast (Carrara) 8884

1998
North Sydney (NSO) 10,958
Gold Coast (Carrara) 6,566

In that year, 3 of the worst 5 home crowds were at Cararra: They were:

3374 : Round 9 - May 8,9,10 ; Gold Coast v Penrith at Carrara Stadium on Saturday Afternoon

3762 : Round 13 - June 6,7 ; Gold Coast v Illawarra at Carrara Stadium on Saturday Night

3897 : Round 16 - June 26,27,28 ; Gold Coast v Adelaide at Carrara Stadium on Saturday Night

Another important factor - away crowds - indicatnig pulling power is assessed.

Results:

North Sydney av 11200
Gold Coast av 6998

1999
North Sydney: 8,567
The disaster year - with Norths playing every match until late in the year away due to probvlems with construction at Gosford. This disaster year compares well with Gold Coast's home crowds of the previous years.

2000
Northern Eagles - North Power Stadium 15,610 (third, behind Marathon and ANZ)
Northern Eagles - Brookvale Oval 10,116 (last - including 2 of the worst 5 crowds of the year: (6106 : Round 15 - May 12-14 ; Nth.Eagles v Auckland at Brookvale Oval on Saturday Afternoon) and (6899 : Round 22 - Jun 30-Jul 1-2 ; Nth.Eagles v Bulldogs at Brookvale Oval on Sunday Afternoon )

2001
Northern Eagles - North Power Stadium: 10,569
Northern Eagles: Brookvale Oval: 8,578

2002
(the year Arko said to the people of the Central Coast - "Stuff You" - and made plans to turn the joint venture into Manly at Brookvale again - thus alienating Central Coast league supporters)

Northern Eagles - North Power Stadium 9,956
Northern Eagles - Brookvale Oval 10,574

From these figures it is clear that rugby league on the central coast was supported far more than that on the Gold Coast. League only dropped off in Gosford after the Manly side of the Northern Eagles joint venture decided to shaft the district, and move back to Brookvale under their old name.

The Central Coast has proved itself as a potential League goldmine. The Gold Coast is yet to prove this.
So, those figures would be Norths while regular semi-finalists, playing in a beaut stadium vs the Gold Coast who were regular cellar-dwellers playing in an oval ground where the crowd learned they couldn't see the game properly, sort of like how the crowds desert the current prmeiers when they play at the Sydney Showgrounds. A fair comparison?
 

nqboy

First Grade
Messages
8,914
doctor death said:
ngboy

You're a genius.

Singo pays significant cash for a research project to back his case - all open for scrutiny.

In future, if you're going to contest an issue, try and actually make a point!
Okay, try these on for size. Address the demographics posted by Diehard, I've asked you several times now. Or is that in the too-hard basket?

What about preserving and strengthening Origin? That one too hard as well?

What about 40% of Rugby League players in Australia in a state represented by two clubs vs 11 clubs south of the border representing a bit over half? And you want to add another one? Dill.

BTW, I don't really expect you to address the questions, you never have in the past.
 

Tidus_Raider

Bench
Messages
2,576
Perth is still a long way off. A very long way. They played a trial, they played a game and will probably do that next year too, but to say they are readying themselves to make a formal approach to the NRL is jumping the gun.

I'm not a big fan of a second New Zealand side. Their are plenty of Kiwi's running around in other NRL teams apart from the Warriors. Also I can't imagine that away games aren't going to fill up too many stadiums, involving this team. They barely do with the Warriors. The NRL also has a problem with letting teams get away with some STUPID names. FFS imagine this the NEW ZEALAND WARRIORS V SOUTHERN ORCA'S. Just sounds lame if you ask me.

That leaves it down to 2 area's, Gold Coast and Central Coast. I think eventually both these area's will have teams in the NRL, but at the moment I think the GC is the one that needs a team more badly then CC. 2 teams in QLD is not enough, whereas the NSW is squeezed as it is with all the teams ATM. Wollongong, South Sydney and West Sydney are RL strong holds. The Roosters are fghting off the Waratah's to keep the East. Manly is slowing getting back to being the team everyone hates and Newcastle will always have their faithful supporters. That leaves the North Shore and Gosford area's for a team

Eventually, over time they will get their team. They will be called the Central Coast Bears and they will play out of Express Advocate stadium. But not before the GC is admitted and not if a team decides to re-locate.
 

Crippler

Juniors
Messages
743
perth like NZ would be good for TV as they could be shown LIVE at a later NSW time

If Perth Played at 7:30 each saturday night the game could be shown live on Fox sports supersaturday at 9:30 timeslot

and if its a sunday maybe they could delay the game by an hour so it could be shown live at 6 o clock on fox
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Crippler said:
perth like NZ would be good for TV as they could be shown LIVE at a later NSW time

If Perth Played at 7:30 each saturday night the game could be shown live on Fox sports supersaturday at 9:30 timeslot

and if its a sunday maybe they could delay the game by an hour so it could be shown live at 6 o clock on fox

whilst that has high merit, they are only very minor reasons as to why they would be admitted into the comp in 2010-2012
 

Tidus_Raider

Bench
Messages
2,576
Crippler said:
perth like NZ would be good for TV as they could be shown LIVE at a later NSW time

If Perth Played at 7:30 each saturday night the game could be shown live on Fox sports supersaturday at 9:30 timeslot

and if its a sunday maybe they could delay the game by an hour so it could be shown live at 6 o clock on fox

We don't need what's good for TV. We need what's good for the NRL and Rugby League in Australia.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
For the 400th time:

Population
Gold Coast dwarfs Central coast no question. It is the 6th largest city in the country. It is now (wasnt when it was last in the NRL) larger than Newcastle. if the knights go bust and fall over, does anyone really think that the CC should get in before a Newcastle side? Of course not. The Central coast is barely large enough to support a side. It is just bigger than Townsville, but the residents have 40 times the sporting options as the Townsville residents.

Supporters
CC obviously has long term potential, in the same way that Penrith has in the last 4 or 5 years cemented their place in the community. this took 25 years for the team to gain long term acceptance because when they came in people in the area already had their own teams and could drive train or bus to watch them without too much trouble. Eventually the youth grew up and after a couple of premierships (they had poor crowds after the first premiership) the panthers are now established and drawing good crowds. CC have the same problem. Everyone in the area has their own team within an hour or an hour and a half drive. I am not sure what role NS fans will play in the venture but it seems as if the majority have moved on to support another team in the NRL and may not travel. I would have thought that an average of 1000 NS loyalists would travel each week, but i could be wrong. What crowds to the bears get at the moment?

Gold Coast will draw fans from a number of sources. Residents make up the majority obviously. Being a one team city, there is an immediate bond with the whole city. CC will have the same but the city is a lot smaller and the residents do not have the option of attending other teams games like CC. Also, GC will steal the Anti Brisbane sentiment (which wasnt really around at their previous incarnation they may have done something in their last season or two but the team was such a joke they never really had a chance)

CROWDS
To be honest, both GC and CC crowds are similar and neither are as spectacular as they seem. Perth, Wellington, Melbourne, Adelaide and Christchurch have all been capable of pulling 20000 crowds to one or two games. The crowds drop off when more games are played and when the form is poor. I personally think the GC crowds over the last couple of years are slightly better but truthfully, it is a draw in this area.

Corporate support
The GC is a huge corporate city. The country's tourism capitalism and a business sector as large (or larger than) Newcastle, Canberra, Perth or Adelaide. All four of these cities could support a professional sporting team, without question. GC is no different. CC is an awful lot smaller, but they probably can tap into the Sydney (particularly northern Sydney market) which although overcrowded would probably support a team provided it is managed properly. Singleton is also a short term advantage (although his previous rugby league failures say otherwise). In reality noone has any idea which bid wins here both could succeed if managed properly so it would have to be a draw.

Media
Understated by both sides on TFR. But GC has their own radio station and Free to Air TV station and a newspaper which pretty much outsells the Brisbane Based Courier Mail on the coast (i think). In any case, GC would be the no 2 team in the CM so they would get massive coverage in it too. Both would be 100% behind the team with news items and TV broadcasts of games. CC I presume has its own radio stations. I dont think it has its TV station to itself and am not sure of the newspaper bids. It would be good if the CC residents could explain the media situation. They will get limited coverage in the Sydney papers because there are so many other Sydney teams and i presume CC residents would rely on Sydney papers quite heavily. It seems to me that GC have the advantage here, and imo it is a big advantage, maybe the biggest.

Juniours
Both are rich junior areas with a strong rugby league area. You can argue which is stronger all day but it will never be more than personal opinion. Draw


Stadium
CC have a fantastic stadium. GC have a good stadium (Carrara) with first class lighting. It needs more covered seats and has some other minor problems. but at the end of the day, a stadium doesnt really bring in the fans for anything other than novelty value which wears off. ANZ got bigger Broncos crowds than Lang Park ever has or will and that isnt as good a stadium. GC also have the promise of a new stadium which is an awful lot more likely than CC fans want. cc probably have a slight advantage in this area (as opposed to a draw) but it is very minor and in the wash up means the least of all criteria.

All in all, CC have a very good bid, but it just isnt as good as the Gold Coast bid.The longer the CC bid is delayed, the better their case gets. But at the moment, they are too far behind the GC bid to make that ground up. Their only reasonable hope is for more than one side to be let in.
 
Messages
2,579
Who says that if the central coast do get a team that they have to be called the Bears anyway, thats not set in stone either is it
 

nqboy

First Grade
Messages
8,914
nqboy said:
Okay, try these on for size. Address the demographics posted by Diehard, I've asked you several times now. Or is that in the too-hard basket?

What about preserving and strengthening Origin? That one too hard as well?

What about 40% of Rugby League players in Australia in a state represented by two clubs vs 11 clubs south of the border representing a bit over half? And you want to add another one? Dill.

BTW, I don't really expect you to address the questions, you never have in the past.
Dr Patel? You there Jayant? Or are these questions still too hard?
 

doctor death

Juniors
Messages
364
nqboy said:
Okay, try these on for size. Address the demographics posted by Diehard, I've asked you several times now. Or is that in the too-hard basket?

What about preserving and strengthening Origin? That one too hard as well?

What about 40% of Rugby League players in Australia in a state represented by two clubs vs 11 clubs south of the border representing a bit over half? And you want to add another one? Dill.

BTW, I don't really expect you to address the questions, you never have in the past.

Listen, Clown are you talking about demographics from DieHardon or from Flabio? So far, these guys have established that Gc is a growth area. What Singo's info does is not just lazily quote ABS stats - he digs down to establish the strength of the demographics for rugby league on CC. read them and learn something.

preserving and strengthening Origin? You're desperate for a new spin now! Origin is and will remain strong. If this was so important, why has GC only ecome important in the last 2 years. before that, no-one gave a hoot.

Wouldn't matter if it was 18 teams versus 1, you idiot. pointless introducing a basketcase that has celarly failed in the area many times before. I hope you and Flabio aren't running businesses.

You have been given answers many times before. fact is - CC bid is all over GC bid. but you only listen to what you want to hear.
 

doctor death

Juniors
Messages
364
bender said:
For the 400th time:

Population
Gold Coast dwarfs Central coast no question. It is the 6th largest city in the country. It is now (wasnt when it was last in the NRL) larger than Newcastle. if the knights go bust and fall over, does anyone really think that the CC should get in before a Newcastle side? Of course not. The Central coast is barely large enough to support a side. It is just bigger than Townsville, but the residents have 40 times the sporting options as the Townsville residents.

Supporters
CC obviously has long term potential, in the same way that Penrith has in the last 4 or 5 years cemented their place in the community. this took 25 years for the team to gain long term acceptance because when they came in people in the area already had their own teams and could drive train or bus to watch them without too much trouble. Eventually the youth grew up and after a couple of premierships (they had poor crowds after the first premiership) the panthers are now established and drawing good crowds. CC have the same problem. Everyone in the area has their own team within an hour or an hour and a half drive. I am not sure what role NS fans will play in the venture but it seems as if the majority have moved on to support another team in the NRL and may not travel. I would have thought that an average of 1000 NS loyalists would travel each week, but i could be wrong. What crowds to the bears get at the moment?

Gold Coast will draw fans from a number of sources. Residents make up the majority obviously. Being a one team city, there is an immediate bond with the whole city. CC will have the same but the city is a lot smaller and the residents do not have the option of attending other teams games like CC. Also, GC will steal the Anti Brisbane sentiment (which wasnt really around at their previous incarnation they may have done something in their last season or two but the team was such a joke they never really had a chance)

CROWDS
To be honest, both GC and CC crowds are similar and neither are as spectacular as they seem. Perth, Wellington, Melbourne, Adelaide and Christchurch have all been capable of pulling 20000 crowds to one or two games. The crowds drop off when more games are played and when the form is poor. I personally think the GC crowds over the last couple of years are slightly better but truthfully, it is a draw in this area.

Corporate support
The GC is a huge corporate city. The country's tourism capitalism and a business sector as large (or larger than) Newcastle, Canberra, Perth or Adelaide. All four of these cities could support a professional sporting team, without question. GC is no different. CC is an awful lot smaller, but they probably can tap into the Sydney (particularly northern Sydney market) which although overcrowded would probably support a team provided it is managed properly. Singleton is also a short term advantage (although his previous rugby league failures say otherwise). In reality noone has any idea which bid wins here both could succeed if managed properly so it would have to be a draw.

Media
Understated by both sides on TFR. But GC has their own radio station and Free to Air TV station and a newspaper which pretty much outsells the Brisbane Based Courier Mail on the coast (i think). In any case, GC would be the no 2 team in the CM so they would get massive coverage in it too. Both would be 100% behind the team with news items and TV broadcasts of games. CC I presume has its own radio stations. I dont think it has its TV station to itself and am not sure of the newspaper bids. It would be good if the CC residents could explain the media situation. They will get limited coverage in the Sydney papers because there are so many other Sydney teams and i presume CC residents would rely on Sydney papers quite heavily. It seems to me that GC have the advantage here, and imo it is a big advantage, maybe the biggest.

Juniours
Both are rich junior areas with a strong rugby league area. You can argue which is stronger all day but it will never be more than personal opinion. Draw


Stadium
CC have a fantastic stadium. GC have a good stadium (Carrara) with first class lighting. It needs more covered seats and has some other minor problems. but at the end of the day, a stadium doesnt really bring in the fans for anything other than novelty value which wears off. ANZ got bigger Broncos crowds than Lang Park ever has or will and that isnt as good a stadium. GC also have the promise of a new stadium which is an awful lot more likely than CC fans want. cc probably have a slight advantage in this area (as opposed to a draw) but it is very minor and in the wash up means the least of all criteria.

All in all, CC have a very good bid, but it just isnt as good as the Gold Coast bid.The longer the CC bid is delayed, the better their case gets. But at the moment, they are too far behind the GC bid to make that ground up. Their only reasonable hope is for more than one side to be let in.

For the millionth time, this is not a case of 2 potential stadiums etc. CC are already ready - have been for 6 years. GC has "potential', you say, even tho the area has failed miserably 4 times and no-oone was interested 2 years ago in GC.

If GC is so great, why has CC been on everbody's lips for years, not the GC. Why was a stadium built in the 90's whilst GC are still trying to get one built. these are the facts.

GC has always been a transient, shifting place for the young and East asian visitors and a retirement area for the old. This is what flabio can't see - it is not a rugby league heartland.

If you look closely at who is behind the GC bid, it is jobs for ex-roosters and ARL boys plus an ex-GC player who won't let go. That's the facts, boys.
 

Sir Clifford GC

Juniors
Messages
1,386
If i was a paying member at norths i would be concerned that my president spends a great deal of his time posting properganda on "rebel websites".
I hope the dont pay you Mr Gibbons because they would be wasting their cash if they did.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
doctor death said:
For the millionth time, this is not a case of 2 potential stadiums etc. CC are already ready - have been for 6 years.
And Carrara has had stadium for longer than 6 years.

GC has "potential', you say, even tho the area has failed miserably 4 times and no-oone was interested 2 years ago in GC.
How are these failures different to the 4 North Sydney/Central Coast/Singleton failures. North Sydney tried for 90 odd years and when they finally looked like they had worked how to run a club (early 90s) they went bust. Newtown and Wests both worked for 80-90 odd years until Singleton got involved and they were kicked out of the NRL and merged effectively. CC lasted 2 years before deciding they deserting the club that they had previously adopted as their own.
If GC is so great, why has CC been on everbody's lips for years, not the GC.
Spoken from a true Sydneyite who listens to the Sydney News Ltd propaganda. In Qld, CC has never been the first option. WE have always needed a second Brisbane team first and foremost and that is all the papers talked about up here. Gold Coast however have now passed that bid because of the strength of their bid and the need for that area to have a team.
Why was a stadium built in the 90's whilst GC are still trying to get one built. these are the facts.
Because cc didnt have a stadium to start with and North sydney wanted to playin the CC. GC already had a stadium.

GC has always been a transient, shifting place for the young and East asian visitors and a retirement area for the old. This is what flabio can't see - it is not a rugby league heartland.
Transient young east asian population:lol: And i suppose Western sydney is good heartland because of the Lebanese influx. GC is an extension of Brisbane, there is no artificial border where people suddenly become AFL stooges, South East Asian, or a transient population. Rugby League is part of the GC culture it is the no 1 sport in the city. If it isnt a rugby league culture why are both of the Qld cup club going so strong, as opposed to their central coast/north Sydney equivalents?

If you look closely at who is behind the GC bid, it is jobs for ex-roosters and ARL boys plus an ex-GC player who won't let go. That's the facts, boys.
That may or may not be so. But GC needs a team. If it were the Gold Coast Burleigh Bears, they should still get in. If it Were East Coast Tigers backed, North Sydney Bears backed or Singleton backed sides, they should all get in. If the side let in goes broke, a new GC side should get in. Just like if Aukland, Broncos or the all of the 8 Sydney teams all went simultaneously broke, they should be replaced by a team based in Auckland, Brisbane, and sydney.
 

mightybears

Bench
Messages
4,342
Sir Clifford GC said:
mirky deadset
if your brain was semen there wouldnt be enough to make half a baby.
Using your sexual fasination of Ms Vanstone to back up you piss weak rhetoric proves that.

semen and amanda vanstone
and your 'classic' urine and jason taylor

how your mind works , cameron!
 
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