Who would you like to see appointed as Dragons Coach for 2015 on

[BennyV]

Entrenched views inhibit this forum Bottle.

I know, its horrible...tell us more about our infallibale demi-god Adam Quinlan and Better-Than-Bennett Supercoach, Paul McGregor...

 

[The Damo]

Merrin is not our best defender

The whole sentence was best defender and lateral mover in the middle. I suppose you could make an argument for Creagh , but that's if you want to be intellectually honest enough not to cherry pick half a sentence...

 

[Godz Illa]

Creagh is better, I don't think there's an argument about it. Even Will Matthews is better in the middle, I think. Is it being "intellectually honest" to embellish?

 

[The Damo]

Will Mathews? Fair enough, no embellishment there

And yes it is more intellectually honest to embellish given that is subjective, than it is to cherry pick or misquote or create straw men to argue with , given those are more clear cut.

 

[Godz Illa]

Will Mathews? Fair enough, no embellishment there

And yes it is more intellectually honest to embellish given that is subjective, than it is to cherry pick or misquote or create straw men to argue with , given those are more clear cut.

Well to be perfectly intellectually honest, I didn't intend to create a straw man - that was simply the most striking comment of the post that I wanted to address.

Assessing McGregor's individual decisions so far on a pro's v cons basis is an interesting exercise, and I agree with most of what has been stated, but based on the sample size I would not consider it compelling enough evidence one way or the other

 

[The Damo]

I agree, we do have only a small sample size to work with, and it's certainly valid to think that this should preclude Mary. I am not personally convinced, which is why I put the question of what would a better , more experienced coach have done differently?
Also , am new here and prob came off more combative than I meant to, sorry about that.

 

[GT0007]

And of course we all celebrate your viewpoint which is in no way entrenched.

Give us a lift if you can GT, that is if you're able to reach down from those lofty heights. But I'm sure some folks are wondering if you can get through a day without having a shot at this appalling forum full of ghastly opposing viewpoints. Such diverse opinion must really grind your gears, and the hooves of your high horse.

It's too late, I think we're beyond saving, sadly. We're too old and too accustomed to thinking for ourselves.

I know, its horrible...tell us more about our infallibale demi-god Adam Quinlan and Better-Than-Bennett Supercoach, Paul McGregor...

Hilarious :lol::lol::lol:. The 3 funniest guys in the forum.....how did you know I was talking about you????

 

[rainman44]

Entrenched views inhibit this forum Bottle. I'm not suggesting they should change based on 1 or 2 games but they should always be forming. I've said before my favorite player is the one that's playing well. I understand people's reservations with a rookie and I am the same but I also have reservations with an experienced coach who's been sacked and never won a premiership or a coach who has but since been appalling. Price was a mistake in hindsight but looked likely, Mary is a different man and IMO is our best option right now but I want to see how we go for the next month now the presure and expectation will increase

That's fair enough and we will find out soon what Mary has to offer.

 

[GT0007]

An experienced coach would have developed a right side defense plan agains Manly. This threat was obvious well before the game and mentioned by many.

Our right side should have been strengthened by (for this game only) shifting Thompson to the right edge, having Benji and Widdop sides, moving Dugan to fullback and promoting Mata' Utia to right centre. Also instucting Dugan to move quickly to our right side at the back whenever the ball is moved wide to Manly's outside backs on the left

Thanks Possm, this is an actual argument, and a pretty good one. I personally disagree as I think changing the structure around like that would do more harm than good as a one off. But with the exception of moving Thompson there is a credible argument to be made that long term this would be an effective structure. I think the bigger problem was that without merrin we lost out best defender and lateral mover in the middle, which caused the bunching to compensate and left the edge exposed. Plus the persistent use of ahmau for long minutes as once he's fatigued he can't move side way it seems.

As for planning for next year, if be surprised if there wasn't things going on that we don't hear about. Plus art has brought up Rory to train with the top squad so he arguably is making some of those moves.

Experienced coaches make mistakes constantly too. Hasler has assembled a monster pack, with a pretty poor set of backs, and it's costing them. They are getting overrun once fatigued and getting done for speed when the refs won't let them lay all over the ruck. The doggies are still doing well but with the resources and creative salary cap use they have going on they should be doing much better

I agree I would not be shifting Thompson to centre as while in theory he would bolster the defense the reality is when he was moved there not so long ago he was absolutely terrible at centre. The lapses against Manly came from not adjusting in the middle as you mentioned not actually deficiencies on the right side. If anyone bothers to look at the highlights do a count of the Manly players on that side in both of those tries. they had us 5 on 3 and 7 on 3 which simply cant be defended or blamed on the centre.

While Merrin isn't our best defender his workrate is only 2nd to Rein in defense. If he's not 2nd in the tackle count he is 1st and that can only be for 2 reasons, he has good line speed and/or adjusts laterally in defense and we were always going to miss him against the competition favourites.

In regard to Au Mau, I agree with an earlier post that he is probably playing long minutes due to the absence of Friz and on his return hopefully Au Mau will play off the bench and give us better impact without the errors which creep in with fatigue. I thought he was pretty good against the Tiges though

 

[Willow]

how did you know I was talking about you????

Well I didn't. Your post was a targetting the whole forum, and I kind of lost count of your whinging about other posters.

Anyway, I wasn't aware I was getting under your skin. Is it because you got the Blacklock thing wrong? If it helps at all, I personally consider you to be special... very special.

 

[GT0007]

Well I didn't. Your post was a targetting the whole forum, and I kind of lost count of your whinging about other posters.

Anyway, I wasn't aware I was getting under your skin. Is it because you got the Blacklock thing wrong? If it helps at all, I personally consider you to be special... very special.

It seems I need to break it down for you Willow. I said,"Entrenched views inhibit this forum". In the English language that would mean I'm targeting ENTRENCHED VIEWS and the effect they have on the forum. At no point did I imply it was the whole forum or any particular individual. Nor do I whinge about any other posters to the point you have lost count or I would indeed begin to question your aptitude for mathematics.

I'm happy for opposing opinions but it gets a little old when a player or coach proves themself and the same knockers still bang on about something that happened early in the year or last year.

In regard to Blacklock we'll have to agree to disagree and I put my case forward on that based on the fact he didnt score any more tries without Mary in the team and scored marginally less. Your implication that Blacklock wouldve scored many more tries is an opinion which we are both entitled to have.

Calling me special doesn't help your case at all, you seem like an intelligent person so don't lower yourself.

 

[Get2dachopper!]

You guys are overthinking the situation. No rush to sign Mary until after round 26. I don't see NRL clubs lining up to sign him, so don't worry, he is not going anywhere.

 

[jenninga]

Knew possm would cause trouble by starting this thread

 

[BennyV]

Hilarious :lol::lol::lol:. The 3 funniest guys in the forum.....how did you know I was talking about you????

Nawww shucks...flattery really does get.you places GT!

Point I'm trying to make is that you are in no position to criticise others for having 'entrenched views' when you do the exact same thing regarding certain players and coaches.

Newflash, when people have an opinion/view, they generally believe its the right one! Otherwise, they wouldn't have that opinion.

 

[Willow]

It seems I need to break it down for you Willow. I said,"Entrenched views inhibit this forum". In the English language that would mean I'm targeting ENTRENCHED VIEWS and the effect they have on the forum. At no point did I imply it was the whole forum or any particular individual. Nor do I whinge about any other posters to the point you have lost count or I would indeed begin to question your aptitude for mathematics.

Understanding mathematical English. Cool. The new prerequisite for true supporters. Thanks for the lesson.

But let's face it GT, you do whinge a lot.

I'm happy for opposing opinions

Haha. As long as no one steps out of line eh?

but it gets a little old when a player or coach proves themself and the same knockers still bang on about something that happened early in the year or last year.

lol. Now look at all that denial and contradiction.

In regard to Blacklock we'll have to agree to disagree

You were proven wrong.

and I put my case forward on that based on the fact he didnt score any more tries without Mary in the team and scored marginally less.

That's not a fact, you just made it up. Blacklock played 137 games for Saints, McGregor played roughly 30 games for Saints in two seasons. In the seasons 1999 and 2001, McGregor made only 17 appearances per season, not always playing the full game as he was injured a lot. Now from that, you have somehow concluded that Blacklock scored less when your mate wasn't on the field... it is a mystery how you came to this conclusion given the amount of games where there was no McGregor.

But it's your claim, and the onus of proof is on you. Please show me the game stats in 1999 and 2001 when Blacklock dared to go onto the field without McGregor.

Your implication that Blacklock wouldve scored many more tries is an opinion which we are both entitled to have.

lol. I must have imagined all those times when Mary was stepping infield away from his winger.

P.S. Blacklock actually scored tries when McGregor wasn't on the field. Do the math.

Calling me special doesn't help your case at all

OK, you're not special. Better?

you seem like an intelligent person

Nope... crazy as a coconut.

so don't lower yourself.

Come on down GT, join me. If nothing else, it'll fix your nosebleed.

 

[GT0007]

Understanding mathematical English. Cool. The new prerequisite for true supporters. Thanks for the lesson.

But let's face it GT, you do whinge a lot.
Haha. As long as no one steps out of line eh? lol. Now look at all that denial and contradiction.

You were proven wrong. That's not a fact, you just made it up. Blacklock played 137 games for Saints, McGregor played roughly 30 games for Saints in two seasons. In the seasons 1999 and 2001, McGregor made only 17 appearances per season, not always playing the full game as he was injured a lot. Now from that, you have somehow concluded that Blacklock scored less when your mate wasn't on the field... it is a mystery how you came to this conclusion given the amount of games where there was no McGregor.

But it's your claim, and the onus of proof is on you. Please show me the game stats in 1999 and 2001 when Blacklock dared to go onto the field without McGregor.lol. I must have imagined all those times when Mary was stepping infield away from his winger.

P.S. Blacklock actually scored tries when McGregor wasn't on the field. Do the math.
OK, you're not special. Better? Nope... crazy as a coconut.Come on down GT, join me. If nothing else, it'll fix your nosebleed.

Come on now Willow don't sell yourself short, you can be intelligent and crazy as a coconut. Good read, keep up the good work. Sorry if I upset you

 

[Willow]

Oh well, no surprises there. I didn't think you could back up your 'facts'.

 

[GT0007]

Nawww shucks...flattery really does get.you places GT!

Point I'm trying to make is that you are in no position to criticise others for having 'entrenched views' when you do the exact same thing regarding certain players and coaches.

Newflash, when people have an opinion/view, they generally believe its the right one! Otherwise, they wouldn't have that opinion.

I agree to a certain extent Benny and although we are usually on the opposite of the fence you usually do give reason for your opinion which is much better than just having an opinion.

In regard to me having entrenched views, I would say I have strong views but they change with form. When Mary was announced as caretaker there was no one more critical than me. I've now changed my view based on Mary's performance. The opposite can be said about Au Mau, I thought he would have a great season based on the end of last year and early form this year. Outside of last week and the odd burst of energy I think he's turned into a bit of a plodder and needs to do less minutes and from the bench.

I can change my mind about Quinlan as well, I'm not related to him! He did some pretty good things against the tiges though but if I think it's better for the team to bench I'd be calling for it. Like I keep saying, my favourite player is the one playing well but I do find myself defending players when they are bagged outright with little reason or when one dimension of the arguement is given.

Right now Mary is getting bagged for not beating Manly, Penrith and to a lessor extent Souths......so if we beat all those teams and beat the teams we should as we have then we should go thru the rest of the year undefeated and win the competition. Not bad for a team that was facing the wooden spoon. If we lose a game Mary can't coach. Thats just not realistic and IMO we dont have any better options for next season. If he continues to keep the team competitive and we win the games we should then we should sign him but I would wait at least a month. Any coach that is not 1 of the top 4 or 5 is a risk but none of the top coaches are available

 

[GT0007]

Oh well, no surprises there. I didn't think you could back up your 'facts'.

Sorry again to disappoint you but I have already posted them the last time we discussed it so you can dig through and find them. If I'm inclined I'll look when I have a bit more time and repost

 

[GT0007]

Knew possm would cause trouble by starting this thread

That damn Possm! :lol: