Why didn't the AFL experience a super league war?

[Wb1234]

Yes, this is what I`m driving at.

Thirty years ago you would not have expected AFL to be the main beneficiary of a sharp decline in Australian RU. The cashed-up event-goers who typically attend Wallabies games in Sydney seem to have transferred their weekly allegiance from the Waratahs to the Swans. The two games are so different on the field that there has to be some cultural rationale behind the shift.

If the private schools who embraced Aussie Rules, apparently to the detriment of RU, had instead successfully added RL to their sports programmes maybe the Roosters would be pulling 25-30k average crowds rather than the Swans.


During the lean period for English Soccer people were still "exposed to" Soccer but they didn`t go to matches or follow a team. Playing a sport at school or having family members and friends who play a sport at school is far more likely to generate an active supporter base for that sport than simply existing in a city where it`s colloquially top dog.

Soccer used to be déclassé in England. You should be familiar with the hoary old chestnut, "Football is a game for gentlemen played by thugs; Rugby is a game for thugs played by gentlemen". In private schools and State grammars the first XV was traditionally the flagship.

The NRL should study how English Soccer transformed their image and revived their fortunes. Deep down, it`s all about social class.

They were already attending Swans games whilst union was going well

Peter FitzSimons often talks well of the afl and I’m sure you know what he says about our game

the roosters don’t need to push their crowds because they don’t need the money it’s a sad fact but it’s true

even with their massive crowds and memberships the swans make small profits most years and during covid they lost 6 million in one year

 

[LeagueXIII]

Affirmative.

Started out buying videos through "Open Rugby" magazine till I realized that renting was better since you only want to watch a whole game once anyway.

I purchased quite a few from them.

Open Rugby great magazine.

 

[Jamberoo]

I’m talking about professional AFL. It is a white dominated game. It’s obvious to anyone.

I was taking about the AFL as well. This is only the car because of all the Māori and Islander players. AFL players backgrounds would be pretty representative of society in the Australian cities that the players live.
AFL has 11% Indiginous players, 15 African born players and one Māori/Islander.
NRL has 13% indigenous players, zero black African born players and 47% Māori/islanders.
Correlating those numbers are the facts that they’re a far lower % of indigenous and Pacific people in Victoria compared to other mainland states, but more African. It is a shame that there are not more African players in RL (there are a handful of African decent born here) as there are perfectly suited to the game. Big, strong and fast.

 

[Pneuma]

I was taking about the AFL as well. This is only the car because of all the Māori and Islander players. AFL players backgrounds would be pretty representative of society in the Australian cities that the players live.
AFL has 11% Indiginous players, 15 African born players and one Māori/Islander.
NRL has 13% indigenous players, zero black African born players and 47% Māori/islanders.
Correlating those numbers are the facts that they’re a far lower % of indigenous and Pacific people in Victoria compared to other mainland states, but more African. It is a shame that there are not more African players in RL (there are a handful of African decent born here) as there are perfectly suited to the game. Big, strong and fast.

All your data does is prove my point about the lack of diversity in the afl. I’d suggest that the recent racism scandals that have hit 4 afl clubs (and they are serious) are evidence of a cultural issue permeating the code because of its lack of diversity. And watch them sweep them all under the carpet yet again.

 

[Iamback]

I was taking about the AFL as well. This is only the car because of all the Māori and Islander players. AFL players backgrounds would be pretty representative of society in the Australian cities that the players live.
AFL has 11% Indiginous players, 15 African born players and one Māori/Islander.
NRL has 13% indigenous players, zero black African born players and 47% Māori/islanders.
Correlating those numbers are the facts that they’re a far lower % of indigenous and Pacific people in Victoria compared to other mainland states, but more African. It is a shame that there are not more African players in RL (there are a handful of African decent born here) as there are perfectly suited to the game. Big, strong and fast.

They are also tall so normally head towards Basketball as the NBL shows

 

[Ride the Lion to Zion]

They were already attending Swans games whilst union was going well

Swans attendances fluctuated dramatically with on-field performances until the mid 90s. Thereafter they`ve remained disturbingly high, irrespective of playing success. The lingering effects of the SL war are undoubtedly a factor, but there have to be others. As you will have noticed, my best speculation is an AFL/RU cultural nexus.

the roosters don’t need to push their crowds because they don’t need the money it’s a sad fact but it’s true

even with their massive crowds and memberships the swans make small profits most years and during covid they lost 6 million in one year

Is it not a teensy-weensy bit embarrassing that the highest average attendances of any code in Sydney are for an AFL club? It would be like a GAA team based in London consistently drawing larger crowds than Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham, etc.

There were 8k at NSO for the first AFLW Swans game. That`s considerably more than any standalone NRLW fixture has attracted.

A few years ago L`Équipe published an edition focussing on the Sydney sports scene. The front cover was a picture of Fumblers at the SCG. Many Australian travel books now cite a Swans game as the authentic must-see winter sport experience of any trip to Sydney.

You have to hand it to AFL propagandists. Their portrayal of "The National Game" has worked a treat. It would have been a tougher sell if their supporters were as fond of their sofas as Sydney NRL fans.

 

[Ride the Lion to Zion]

And we’re going to push them back all t he way to Melbourne lmao

Perfect dénouement is the Swans holed up in a South Melbourne bunker.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Swans attendances fluctuated dramatically with on-field performances until the mid 90s. Thereafter they`ve remained disturbingly high, irrespective of playing success. The lingering effects of the SL war are undoubtedly a factor, but there have to be others. As you will have noticed, my best speculation is an AFL/RU cultural nexus.



Is it not a teensy-weensy bit embarrassing that the highest average attendances of any code in Sydney are for an AFL club? It would be like a GAA team based in London consistently drawing larger crowds than Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham, etc.

There were 8k at NSO for the first AFLW Swans game. That`s considerably more than any standalone NRLW fixture has attracted.

A few years ago L`Équipe published an edition focussing on the Sydney sports scene. The front cover was a picture of Fumblers at the SCG. Many Australian travel books now cite a Swans game as the authentic must-see winter sport experience of any trip to Sydney.

You have to hand it to AFL propagandists. Their portrayal of "The National Game" has worked a treat. It would have been a tougher sell if their supporters were as fond of their sofas as Sydney NRL fans.

I have met affluent rugby union fans who watch fumbleball and hate rugby league.

Sydney isn't really an RL-centric city. The only reason the ARL/NRL was formed out of the NSWRL is because the NSW government legalised poker machines in licenced venues in 1956. The Queensland and Victorian government didn't allow them into licenced venues until 1991. The NSWRL clubs made a fortune from people playing the pokies at their Leagues Clubs. It bankrupted the BRL clubs as they didn't have access to this revenue stream.

Rugby league is more popular in Brisbane than it is in Sydney. The Sydney clubs generate far less revenue from football operations than the North Queensland Cowboys and Brisbane Broncos. The Dolphins already draw more money from sponsorship than any Sydney club.

 

[Pneuma]

I have met affluent rugby union fans who watch fumbleball and hate rugby league.

Sydney isn't really an RL city. The only reason the ARL/NRL was formed out of the NSWRL is because the NSW government legalised poker machines in licenced venues in 1956. The Queensland and Victorian government didn't allow them into licenced venues until 1991. The NSWRL clubs made a fortune from people playing the pokies at their Leagues Clubs. It bankrupted the BRL clubs as they didn't have access to this revenue stream.

Potato

 

[Iamback]

Swans attendances fluctuated dramatically with on-field performances until the mid 90s. Thereafter they`ve remained disturbingly high, irrespective of playing success. The lingering effects of the SL war are undoubtedly a factor, but there have to be others. As you will have noticed, my best speculation is an AFL/RU cultural nexus.



Is it not a teensy-weensy bit embarrassing that the highest average attendances of any code in Sydney are for an AFL club? It would be like a GAA team based in London consistently drawing larger crowds than Arsenal, Spurs, Chelsea, West Ham, etc.

There were 8k at NSO for the first AFLW Swans game. That`s considerably more than any standalone NRLW fixture has attracted.

A few years ago L`Équipe published an edition focussing on the Sydney sports scene. The front cover was a picture of Fumblers at the SCG. Many Australian travel books now cite a Swans game as the authentic must-see winter sport experience of any trip to Sydney.

You have to hand it to AFL propagandists. Their portrayal of "The National Game" has worked a treat. It would have been a tougher sell if their supporters were as fond of their sofas as Sydney NRL fans.

How is the other AFL side in Sydney going?

The one formed AFTER SL and that hasn't lost RL teams in it's niche area?

 

[Wb1234]

How is the other AFL side in Sydney going?

The one formed AFTER SL and that hasn't lost RL teams in it's niche area?

Ah I remember the days when the giants were first formed based in a new council funded ground in Blacktown

the greater west of Sydney was at risk of the afl invasion with all the young Polynesian kids wanting to follow their hero isreal folau

afl posts were sprouting up like weeds and Penrith parra and the tigers were to be no match to these afl giants

Now the giants are the laughing stock of Sydney with their crowds of 3000 paying fans

 

[siv]

I have met affluent rugby union fans who watch fumbleball and hate rugby league.

Sydney isn't really an RL-centric city. The only reason the ARL/NRL was formed out of the NSWRL is because the NSW government legalised poker machines in licenced venues in 1956. The Queensland and Victorian government didn't allow them into licenced venues until 1991. The NSWRL clubs made a fortune from people playing the pokies at their Leagues Clubs. It bankrupted the BRL clubs as they didn't have access to this revenue stream.

Rugby league is more popular in Brisbane than it is in Sydney. The Sydney clubs generate far less revenue from football operations than the North Queensland Cowboys and Brisbane Broncos. The Dolphins already draw more money from sponsorship than any Sydney club.

Again you should hold the Qld Government accountable for any inbalance between NSW and Qld for club revenues.

Nothing to do with the NSWRL

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Again you should hold the Qld Government accountable for any inbalance between NSW and Qld for club revenues.

Nothing to do with the NSWRL

You can tell him
but it just doesn’t sink in .

 

[Pneuma]

You can tell him
but it just doesn’t sink in .

Depends which version of him it is. There seems to be about 3 at the moment

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

Simple fact .
the NSWRL did not make policy for the Qld govt .
Hence they have nothing to do with what happened in the 60s to the early 90s.
As a QLDer yes it was not nice to watch Qld players play for NSW & beat us ….then again when SOO began it did give us the underdog tag which was used successfully for decades.

how someone can still be bitter about what happened 35 yrs ago is just mind boggling .
Move on ..you cant change anything ..the ARLC isn’t going to say ..oh let’s cull 4 Syd teams to keep some bitter nut job in Logan happy .

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Again you should hold the Qld Government accountable for any inbalance between NSW and Qld for club revenues.

Nothing to do with the NSWRL

Why should I blame the Queensland Government?

NSW was the only state in the country that allowed licenced venues to have gaming machines between 1956 and 1991.

When I see how many lives have been ruined by the pokies I wish we would develop some integrity and get rid of the bloody things. I love my rugby league, but I detest the way it preys on gambling addicts to survive. If getting rid of pokies means lowering the salary cap and operating expenses to survive then so be it. Players and clubs shouldn’t be profiting at the expense of the less fortunate.

 

[Cheese sandwich]

I'm not a fan of poker machines either but to hide behind that to justify a very strange and obsessive hatred of some Sydney football clubs repeated ad nauseum day in day out is just plain weird. To use the logic of profiting off the less fortunate to fund player wages and such well then the clubs might as well start handing out memberships, merchandise for nothing and offering free food at the games as the majority of the spectators would be considered financially less fortunate than the players.

 

[Ride the Lion to Zion]

Sydney isn't really an RL-centric city. The only reason the ARL/NRL was formed out of the NSWRL is because the NSW government legalised poker machines in licenced venues in 1956.

Shouldn`t neglect the value in the provenance of the NRL premiership. Even the very name of the sport "Rugby League" was first coined with the formation of the NSWRL. In England we were still playing "Rugby" in the Northern Union until 1922.

I continue to think the main difference between RL in Sydney and Aussie Rules in Melbourne is the malignant role of Rugby bloody Union.

BTW, I always like to point out to Aussies that my club Swinton Lions was formed in 1866. Which gives us a 40+ year advantage over the likes of Roosters, Rabbitohs, Valleys Diehards, etc.

The Dolphins already draw more money from sponsorship than any Sydney club.

Dolphins` sponsorship portfolio is mightily impressive. They could be a powerful and prestigious asset for the NRL. But how many people in SEQ will go to their games? RL supporters in all parts of Oz don`t seem to have the commitment of their AFL counterparts.

The size of Lions crowds vis-a-vis Broncos is every bit as ignominious for RL as Swans crowds in Sydney.

 

[siv]

Why should I blame the Queensland Government?

NSW was the only state in the country that allowed licenced venues to have gaming machines between 1956 and 1991.

When I see how many lives have been ruined by the pokies I wish we would develop some integrity and get rid of the bloody things. I love my rugby league, but I detest the way it preys on gambling addicts to survive. If getting rid of pokies means lowering the salary cap and operating expenses to survive then so be it. Players and clubs shouldn’t be profiting at the expense of the less fortunate.

Because you are bitter about a event from 70 years ago that allowed NSW clubs to create a new revenue stream through Leagues Clubs, that the QLD government who were voted in by the Qld public denied BRL clubs

You cannot change the past

 

[Ride the Lion to Zion]

How is the other AFL side in Sydney going?

The one formed AFTER SL and that hasn't lost RL teams in it's niche area?

AFL fans who want to persist indefinitely with the Giants take solace from looking at Swans crowds over the first decade and a half after the move to Sydney. On that reading, it`s early days.

The pragmatic course would be to give the Giants` licence to Tas. And for that matter, the Suns` licence to Darwin or Perth 3. But if large population centres in Australia demonstrate conspicuous resistance to their advances, to the extent they`re forced to give up and retreat, it could fatally undermine their "National Game" narrative and business model.

Which means they are condemned to persevere. Ironically, given all the talk about NSW pokie dens, the AFL in Western Sydney could be like a nappy-wearing gambling addict, feeding money into an avaricious machine, frantically hoping the jackpot is just around the corner.