Why does rugby league have trouble expanding internationally compared to other codes

[Stallion]

Nothing you've brought up is anything new or revolutionary. Same victim mentality as always. I neither deny nor try to excuse the behaviour mentioned but this need to cling to this sense of injustice as the singular reason League still struggles for relevance internationally while over looking decades of insularity and mismanagement is just as damaging as the said roadblocks constantly highlighted.

It excuses those in a position of power for their lack of action or interest and their incompetence when attempts have been made.

The said "road blocks" may be highlighted in this thread but are clearly not common knowledge in the general public at large. This greater awareness of the obstructionist and unsportsmanlike stance of RU toward its more "attractive" 'younger brother' (RL) is where the discourse should go.

The internet is a means of easily conveying this 'bigotry' and it deserves to be exposed. Yes, poor administration is clearly part of R'Ls issues, but just as equally the repressive tactics promoted and facilitated by RU in so many different ways is another major part of RL's lack of international progress.

To ignore this major barrier(RU repression of RL) is shear folly, as it will always be there to circumvent and undermine RL's long overdue and (undeniably deserved from a sporting perspective) growth. A far more democratic and inclusive code of rugby(RL) is being repressed and it needs to be known. It's not fair and it has been and still is occurring.

Thus open discussion and acknowledgement is a very useful means of getting the truth of R'Ls struggles out there. It's worth it!

 

[Whatwhere]

The said "road blocks" may be highlighted in this thread but are clearly not common knowledge in the general public at large. This greater awareness of the obstructionist and unsportsmanlike stance of RU toward its more "attractive" 'younger brother' (RL) is where the discourse should go.

The internet is a means of easily conveying this 'bigotry' and it deserves to be exposed. Yes, poor administration is clearly part of R'Ls issues, but just as equally the repressive tactics promoted and facilitated by RU in so many different ways is another major part of RL's lack of international progress.

To ignore this major barrier(RU repression of RL) is shear folly, as it will always be there to circumvent and undermine RL's long overdue and (undeniably deserved from a sporting perspective) growth. A far more democratic and inclusive code of rugby(RL) is being repressed and it needs to be known. It's not fair and it has been and still is occurring.

Thus open discussion and acknowledgement is a very useful means of getting the truth of R'Ls struggles out there. It's worth it!

So you're admitting that you're overlooking the administrative disinterest and incompetence to just play the victim card. You're stuck in a loop lacking anything resembling objectivity. The next logical step from there is donning a tin foil hat.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

More the latter than the former. While actions taken by one certainly would have made entry to some regions more difficult it certainly wouldn't have been impossible. Perhaps in the first half of last century, yeah. But with the much increased mobility of many that emerged in the 2nd half of the 20th century and beyond there could have been measures taken to overcome these issues.

That's the nature of development. It require hard work and ingenuity. Just ask those developing Rugby in the US who invest 10,000 of hours and millions of dollars every year often out of their own pocket or fundraising efforts.

The whole, blame the big bad Rugby, angle excuses the 'too hard, why try' approach League admin has taken for much of its existence. You know there are situations where other sports have tried to block Rugby. Still comes up in the US all the time with AF coaches. But the volunteers behind the movement get people on board and often change minds.

No one is excusing poor management. Half the posts on this forum are criticising poor management.

What you are doing is EXACTLY what you say you aren't doing, that's glossing over the facts you don't like and pointing the finger elsewhere. If you'd made one solitary post on this forum that wasn't defending union you might have some credibility and earned the right to be critical of RL and its admin, but you haven't so you don't.

--> Fight club with the rest of them.

 

[Whatwhere]

No one is excusing poor management. Half the posts on this forum are criticising poor management.

What you are doing is EXACTLY what you say you aren't doing, that's glossing over the facts you don't like and pointing the finger elsewhere. If you'd made one solitary post on this forum that wasn't defending union you might have some credibility and earned the right to be critical of RL and its admin, but you haven't so you don't.

--> Fight club with the rest of them.

I've acknowledged that Rugby authorities have done things both in the past and apparently in some countries today that have impeded any efforts from League. I've never condoned it.

But, there are some on here who seem to want to treat it as some kind of human rights violation while desperately ignoring the inaction of those supposedly guiding League internationally.

Case in point. One of them has 'liked' your post.

On a number of occasions the Vichy have been thrown out there as a primary reason for League's failures. Now, did Rugby collude with the Vichy to the detriment of League? Evidence suggests that yes, yes they did. But correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Vichy's regime fall some 71 years ago? Rugby League though weakened did survive that era in history and competed internationally throughout the the 50s and beyond. Do you really think that League in France hasn't had ample time to rebuild and develop?

Look at what Soccer has done here in the space of 16 or so years. At the top end and much of the development pathways prior to the A-League, Soccer was a complete shit show. They restructured, re-organised participation and development and are beginning to gain more and more traction.

League in France has had 71 years to do something somewhat similar but still struggles for relevance. Why would that be?

Finally, people highlight Morrocco and Sth Africa as additional case studies but what about the other nations where Rugby hasn't done anything and yet Rugby League has struggled to find a footing in comparison to Rugby. Germany comes to mind off the top of my head.

 

[Stallion]

So you're admitting that you're overlooking the administrative disinterest and incompetence to just play the victim card. You're stuck in a loop lacking anything resembling objectivity. The next logical step from there is donning a tin foil hat.

Amazingly poor and ignorant response!
We have always noted the incompetent administration its the "big brother" thing that's needs to be common knowledge and discourse. Very few people are aware of what has been going on when it comes to RU pulling its strings behind the scenes to make growth/existence of rugby league achievable! Please remember RL does not have the establishment backing that you speak of that RU has clearly used to propagate its code for over 100 years at least. RL has had the struggle within the market place which it readily decided to take on back in 1895(England) & 1908 (NZ & Aust) and has done remarkably well considering the devious tactics RU has used to deny RL's existence and development basically everywhere. If we don't acknowledge and proactively discuss this then we cannot genuinely move on as the relics and structure impeding RLs growth will not be recognized and understood . This will haunt RL as it strives to grow. So it really does need to be addressed and have the greater public be aware of the 'roadblocks'. And making the general public more aware of this bigotry by one code over another is worthwhile as such codes are aimed to be culturally inclusive.

If one code doesn't get a fair go and the other does, then this is not fair and it should be known. It answers many questions and logic starts to come into the general public discourse instead of blind adherence to what the RU people want general society to innocently view their codes apparent 'legitimacy' which RU is afraid will occur.

 

[Whatwhere]

Amazingly poor and ignorant response!
We have always noted the incompetent administration its the "big brother" thing that's needs to be common knowledge and discourse. Very few people are aware of what has been going on when it comes to RU pulling its strings behind the scenes to make growth/existence of rugby league achievable! Please remember RL does not have the establishment backing that you speak of that RU has clearly used to propagate its code for over 100 years at least. RL has had the struggle within the market place which it readily decided to take on back in 1895(England) & 1908 (NZ & Aust) and has done remarkably well considering the devious tactics RU has used to deny RL's existence and development basically everywhere. If we don't acknowledge and proactively discuss this then we cannot genuinely move on as the relics and structure impeding RLs growth will not be recognized and understood . This will haunt RL as it strives to grow. So it really does need to be addressed and have the greater public be aware of the 'roadblocks'. And making the general public more aware of this bigotry by one code over another is worthwhile as such codes are aimed to be culturally inclusive.

If one code doesn't get a fair go and the other does, then this is not fair and it should be known. It answers many questions and logic starts to come into the general public discourse instead of blind adherence to what the RU people want general society to innocently view their codes apparent 'legitimacy' which RU is afraid will occur.

'We' does not include you. Others have but you have singularly focused in on the crimes against League as the sole reasoning behind your entire line of argument. Outside of claiming League did not have equal access to the private secondary school sector ,in which you turned out to be wrong on, you have stuck fast in an infinite loop of persecution.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I've acknowledged that Rugby authorities have done things both in the past and apparently in some countries today that have impeded any efforts from League. I've never condoned it.

But, there are some on here who seem to want to treat it as some kind of human rights violation while desperately ignoring the inaction of those supposedly guiding League internationally.

Case in point. One of them has 'liked' your post. On a number of occasions the Vichy have been thrown out there as a primary reason for League's failures. Now, did Rugby collude with the Vichy to the detriment of League. Evidence suggests that ues, yes they did. But correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Vichy's regime fall some 71 years ago? Rugby League though weakened did survive that eta in history and competed internationally throughout the the 50s and beyond. Do you really think that League in France hasn't had amble time to revuild and develop in that time?

Look at what Soccer has done here in the space of 16 or so years. At the top end and much of the development pathways prior to the A-League, Soccer was a complete shit show. They restructured, re-organised participation and development and are beginning to gain more and more traction.

League in France has had 71 years to do something somewhat similar but still struggles for relevance. Why would that be?

Finally, people highlight Morrocco and Sth Africa as additionally case studies but what about the other nations where Rugby hasn't done anything and yet Rugby League has struggled to find a footing in comparative to Rugby. Germany comes to mind off the top of my head.

Yep. We have a bona fide apologist here.

Ignores the fact RL had its assets stolen and never returned. Ignores the fact it was robbed of the right to even use its name for 40 years. All the hallmarks of your standard garden variety union apologist.

Straight to the fight club please mods with the rest of the Vichy fans.

 

[Stallion]

I've acknowledged that Rugby authorities have done things both in the past and apparently in some countries today that have impeded any efforts from League. I've never condoned it.

But, there are some on here who seem to want to treat it as some kind of human rights violation while desperately ignoring the inaction of those supposedly guiding League internationally.

Case in point. One of them has 'liked' your post. On a number of occasions the Vichy have been thrown out there as a primary reason for League's failures. Now, did Rugby collude with the Vichy to the detriment of League. Evidence suggests that ues, yes they did. But correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Vichy's regime fall some 71 years ago? Rugby League though weakened did survive that eta in history and competed internationally throughout the the 50s and beyond. Do you really think that League in France hasn't had amble time to revuild and develop in that time?

Look at what Soccer has done here in the space of 16 or so years. At the top end and much of the development pathways prior to the A-League, Soccer was a complete shit show. They restructured, re-organised participation and development and are beginning to gain more and more traction.

League in France has had 71 years to do something somewhat similar but still struggles for relevance. Why would that be?

Finally, people highlight Morrocco and Sth Africa as additionally case studies but what about the other nations where Rugby hasn't done anything and yet Rugby League has struggled to find a footing in comparative to Rugby. Germany comes to mind off the top of my head.

Clutching at straws now Whatwere.

There are clearly more (RL repression by RU)examples so please don't let us inform you of them as we will take up too much time.The many repressive examples worldwide that haven't even been mentioned will slide by your eyes as well!. You keep referring to RU being 'hard done by" Oh please save it for someone wearing a tweed jacket! It's not even near the extent to which RL has been repressed. Save your time and our time. If you work out a way that we can expose this RU bigotry against RL then we will view your comments with much more respect instead of the "time wasting" energy you are applying to this worthy discourse.

 

[Whatwhere]

Yep. We have a bona fide apologist here.

Ignores the fact RL had its assets stolen and never returned. Ignores the fact it was robbed of the right to even use its name for 40 years. All the hallmarks of your standard garden variety union apologist.

Straight to the fight club please mods with the rest of the Vichy fans.

Ignores the fact that a lot of those 'assets' moved across to League after the French nation Rugby team were banned from the then 4N's for unsportsmanlike conduct. Only for much of those 'assets' to return after they were re-admitted.

Call me an apologist all you want. It's more an admission that I actually make a number of good points than you'd be comfortable admitting too.

 

[Stallion]

'We' does not include you. Others have but you have singularly focused in on the crimes against League as the sole reasoning behind your entire line of argument. Outside of claiming League did not have equal access to the private secondary school sector ,in which you turned out to be wrong on, you have stuck fast in an infinite loop of persecution.

Getting precious again are we!?
You still haven't acknowledged the inequity in the secondary private schools! (RU being played in preference to RL at higher years or no RL at all in union only playing schools whereby the schools playing RL allow both codes to be played) . This has been repeated and clarified for you twice, perhaps more times. Stop wasting our time!

 

[Whatwhere]

Clutching at straws now Whatwere.

There are clearly more (RL repression by RU)examples so please don't let us inform you of them as we will take up too much time.The many repressive examples worldwide that haven't even mentioned will slide by your eyes as well!. You keep referring to RU being 'hard done by" Oh please save it for someone wearing a tweed jacket! It's not even near the extent to which RL has been repressed. Save your time and our time. If you work out a way that we can expose this RU bigotry against RL then we will view your comments with much more respect instead of the "time wasting" energy you are applying to this worthy discourse.

So, the only way I can establish any credibility or status is if I just mindlessly agree with you. Real healthy there buddy.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Ignores the fact that a lot of those 'assets' moved across to League after the French nation Rugby team were banned from the then 4N's for unsportsmanlike conduct. Only for much of those 'assets' to return after they were re-admitted.

Call me an apologist all you want. It's more an admission that I actually make a number of good points than you'd be comfortable admitting too.

You're a union bigot like all the other Union bigots but you won't have the balls to take your shit to the fight club where you belong because you'll have your fat white middle class private school nonse arse handed to you. Instead you pretend to be "objective" and lie about your pro-union motivations despite being as transparent as all the other douchebags who've come on here and tried to do the same thing, which was obvious to me at least from post one.

So once again, ---> fight club.

 

[Stallion]

I've acknowledged that Rugby authorities have done things both in the past and apparently in some countries today that have impeded any efforts from League. I've never condoned it.

But, there are some on here who seem to want to treat it as some kind of human rights violation while desperately ignoring the inaction of those supposedly guiding League internationally.

Case in point. One of them has 'liked' your post.

On a number of occasions the Vichy have been thrown out there as a primary reason for League's failures. Now, did Rugby collude with the Vichy to the detriment of League? Evidence suggests that yes, yes they did. But correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the Vichy's regime fall some 71 years ago? Rugby League though weakened did survive that era in history and competed internationally throughout the the 50s and beyond. Do you really think that League in France hasn't had ample time to rebuild and develop?

Look at what Soccer has done here in the space of 16 or so years. At the top end and much of the development pathways prior to the A-League, Soccer was a complete shit show. They restructured, re-organised participation and development and are beginning to gain more and more traction.

League in France has had 71 years to do something somewhat similar but still struggles for relevance. Why would that be?

Finally, people highlight Morrocco and Sth Africa as additional case studies but what about the other nations where Rugby hasn't done anything and yet Rugby League has struggled to find a footing in comparison to Rugby. Germany comes to mind off the top of my head.

If you really look into what has gone on," human rights " violations can be definitely considered in many of the scenarios. France definitely and other nations but we will keep them "mum" for now.

 

[Whatwhere]

Getting precious again are we!?
You still haven't acknowledged the inequity in the secondary private schools! (RU being played in preference to RL at higher years or no RL at all in union only playing schools whereby the schools playing RL allow both codes to be played) . This has been repeated and clarified for you twice, perhaps more times. Stop wasting our time!

You're not used to someone disagreeing with your parochial world view are you? I have to admire the lack of irony in your accusation of preciousness. I had a chuckle at that one.

You stated that League didn't have equal access to the private secondary system. All because some 24 schools play it (with one that actually plays both) while not offering League. Here's the thing. Many other provate schools could in theory offer Rugby but don't. They have League. But not Rugby. I provided you with all the schools that compete in regular organised competitions in the entire state of NSW. The likes of Newcastle Grammar and Macquarie College compete in their respective club comps.

I also provided a brief lost of schools that only play League. Which their were more. If Rugby is offered it goes only as far as passing kids on to zone trials not actual regular participation. Now I know of at least a dozen more schools associations in Sydney alone that run sports programs. None offering Rugby but League instead. Am I claiming Rugby is being hard done by?

No, because it's those schools perogative to offer whatever co-curricular activities they see fit. If the parents of the students don't like those choices then there's always club sport.

 

[Whatwhere]

You're a union bigot like all the other Union bigots but you won't have the balls to take your shit to the fight club where you belong because you'll have your fat white middle class private school nonse arse handed to you. Instead you pretend to be "objective" and lie about your pro-union motivations despite being as transparent as all the other douchebags who've come on here and tried to do the same thing, which was obvious to me at least from post one.

So once again, ---> fight club.

I'm from the lush leafy suburbs of Campbelltown.

What the hell is fight club?

 

[Whatwhere]

If you really look into what has gone on," human rights " violations can be definitely considered in many of the scenarios. France definitely and other nations but we will keep them "mum" for now.

No, no. Please. Do tell.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I'm from the lush leafy suburbs of Campbelltown.

What the hell is fight club?

It's where naziball twats like you who think they're really clever go to be told what's what when they've been outed as trolls on the rest of the forum.

Now off you go.

 

[Whatwhere]

It's where naziball twats like you who think they're really clever go to be told what's what when they've been outed as trolls on the rest of the forum.

Now off you go.

I just looked it up. Got to say, what passes for spite in this place is Bush League in comparison to other sites. I particularly enjoyed the Rugby resource thread. I found it amusing that you all feel the need to archive anything remotely negative about any other sport. You know that on all the Rugby sites I frequent those sort of things don't exost because, well frankly, who cares.

So bitter, so jaded. So very insecure.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I just looked it up. Got to say, what passes for spite in this place is Bush League in comparison to other sites. I particularly enjoyed the Rugby resource thread. I found it amusing that you all feel the need to archive anything remotely negative about any other sport. You know that on all the Rugby sites I frequent those sort of things don't exost because, well frankly, who cares.

So bitter, so jaded. So very insecure.

Does that finally mean the pretense is over? If you're such a big interweb hero you can go and show off your skills in the fight club with the other bigots and leave the rugby league discussion to rugby league people. But I doubt you will.

To be fair there isn't much discussion of yawnyawn on there anymore, not since it became the number four football code in this country and an irrelevance in any argument about the sporting landscape in Australia.

 

[Stallion]

You're not used to someone disagreeing with your parochial world view are you? I have to admire the lack of irony in your accusation of preciousness. I had a chuckle at that one.

You stated that League didn't have equal access to the private secondary system. All because some 24 schools play it (with one that actually plays both) while not offering League. Here's the thing. Many other provate schools could in theory offer Rugby but don't. They have League. But not Rugby. I provided you with all the schools that compete in regular organised competitions in the entire state of NSW. The likes of Newcastle Grammar and Macquarie College compete in their respective club comps.

I also provided a brief lost of schools that only play League. Which their were more. If Rugby is offered it goes only as far as passing kids on to zone trials not actual regular participation. Now I know of at least a dozen more schools associations in Sydney alone that run sports programs. None offering Rugby but League instead. Am I claiming Rugby is being hard done by?

No, because it's those schools perogative to offer whatever co-curricular activities they see fit. If the parents of the students don't like those choices then there's always club sport.

The schools you have stated that play rugby league only also play union! And please avoid that seemingly exclusive"rugby" term for union out of your chatter as it reeks of ignorance and deliberate rudeness. (I'd say your go though!)It's union or league in this discourse. Fancy you being on a RL website. Our game has got issues putting up with the spoilers but its better than that!