Why expand?

[LeagueXIII]

The Rams did well because Port adelaide hadn't arrived. Adelaide should be the last place we go to.

 

[innsaneink]

Balmain were struggling at the time of the merger but they had just come off a very successful period 1983-1990 and were re-building. They were in their down period of the cycle.

If Balmain had bought Sheens as coach and recruited well ie. Prince and Marshall along with a couple of forwards they would have been just as successful.

Balmain had the support to survive, they have a massive supporter base. 2 years ago everyone on here wanted Souths out, now they are on the verge og great things. This is what can be done at these clubs with positive management.
St.George has everything going for them yet they sell out to suit some agenda. Would clubs like Liverpool, Man Utd, Collingwood, Carlton etc do that...NEVER, so why would St.George do it.

Instead of selling out clubs should be pushing for 20-25,000 stadiums, pro-active mnagement, looking for revenue stream to replace pokies. Not we can't afford it lets move, because what happens when the money dries up where they move to?

Is this a reply to my Q of how WTs is more or less Balmain?
Pretty weak response if it is.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

The Rams did well because Port adelaide hadn't arrived. Adelaide should be the last place we go to.

Port's arrival is irrelevant. The Crows were loved from day one by the whole city, it was never like Brisbane where the city is split 50/50 over the team. It's not like the 'Power' brought in a bunch of dissatisfied fans who might've dabbled in following RL, they just ate away at the existing AFL fanbase.

 

[big boppa eel]

Thats fair enough, but News still controls our game. They DONT WANT the expansion you are talking about. With them in charge, someone has to go. That is the policy, whether you like it or not.

Agreed.

 

[Knightmare]

Look, I'm all for expansion because I want the game to have a truely national presence. Obviously Adelaide is a black hole and the Rams only existed during the SL war because thats where Rupert's Australian base of ops was and a team was needed in the spiritual home.

Perth, however, has a lot going for it and theres certainly a market. I'm a Storm supporter but I think it was pretty horrible the way they were wound up. I hope they are the first team considered for expansion given the effort they are putting in by fielding a team in the JB Cup.

My other preference is obviously for the Central Coast. Firstly I feel sorry for North Sydney getting shafted at the end of 99 and being forced into a merger when they agreed to relocate to Gosford only for their finances to let em down. There is a massive junior league and an area crying out for it's own stand alone team. Add to that the money that John Singleton is prepared to back the team with and a state of the art playing field and it's really a no brainer.

Given the fact that Queensland is rugby league mad as well it'd probably make sense for a 4th QLD team to be admitted. Personally, I reckon it'd be great for regional football in QLD if there was a team in Rockhampton but I dunno if it'd be financially viable. The alternative would obviously be to offer an NRL license to a club like Ipswich or Redcliffe or just build a 2nd Brisbane team from the ground up.

Finally, a second NZ side. Preferably Wellington.

So:

* Perth & Central Coast in time for the next TV deal and
* 4th QLD & 2nd NZ not long after

Let's put the NATIONAL in NRL. Look, in my lifetime I'd like to see rugby league sustain a competitive, financially succesful 20 team competition but unfortunately SL set us back 20 years. There is obviously also a lot of people with their own agendas that hold us back.

I agree totally. Admitting the Bears and the Reds next would be a great step in two directions at the same time- the game re-admits a foundation club, which will win back some of those fans lost to the game as well as finally giving one of the biggest junior Lague bases in NSW a full-time team of its' own (in most people's books, the Northern Eagles did not count for anything more than Manly with a passport). The NRL has spoken about offering a Sydney club a Central Coast licence- the Bears are a Sydney club who want to take the Central Coast licence. The only reason the NRL wouldn't let this happen is because they have some agenda against the Bears, and going from how they have been screwed over since being on the outer, I am beginning to wonder.

Perth represents a frontier team, and the chance to win over brand new fans to the game. By admitting them, we have both the east and west coasts covered, and as people have said, the Reds looked to be a real success story until they were raped by Sewer League. I know there are people on here who want to see Wellington get the next licence, but I don't think the Warriors have been strong enough on or off the field to raise the stakes for them higher still, just yet.

 

[qldseaeagle96]

I agree totally. Admitting the Bears and the Reds next would be a great step in two directions at the same time- the game re-admits a foundation club, which will win back some of those fans lost to the game as well as finally giving one of the biggest junior Lague bases in NSW a full-time team of its' own (in most people's books, the Northern Eagles did not count for anything more than Manly with a passport). The NRL has spoken about offering a Sydney club a Central Coast licence- the Bears are a Sydney club who want to take the Central Coast licence. The only reason the NRL wouldn't let this happen is because they have some agenda against the Bears, and going from how they have been screwed over since being on the outer, I am beginning to wonder.

Perth represents a frontier team, and the chance to win over brand new fans to the game. By admitting them, we have both the east and west coasts covered, and as people have said, the Reds looked to be a real success story until they were raped by Sewer League. I know there are people on here who want to see Wellington get the next licence, but I don't think the Warriors have been strong enough on or off the field to raise the stakes for them higher still, just yet.

Knight - Hammer, nail -Bang! I don't see one negative in your reasoning. If only the NRL would listen...

 

[Angry_eel]

How does everyone see the effect of Western Force on the League in Perth? Have they become big? Have they taken away the existing League market?

 

[Dogs Of War]

How does everyone see the effect of Western Force on the League in Perth? Have they become big? Have they taken away the existing League market?

I think rugby league is in an ideal position to build on any market they have created. The Super 12 comp finished so early in the season, that those who are enjoying Rugby at any level, and with no other option, would find themselves following a Rugby League team.

 

[Green Machine]

From time to time, you here BS about how good things were in the old days. I can remember in the 80’s, if a club had a bad attendance, a figure of just over 5,000 would be posted on the scoreboard. Today, Newtown’s Premier League attendances at Henson are always announced as being 8972, to take the piss of their last premiership attendance in 1983.

Think about the difference between a National Competition and a Metropolitan Competition and the percentage of the crowd made up of supporters from each club. In 1987, Balmain played St George at Leichhardt Oval; what percentage of the 13,359 crowd would have been Balmain fans? 60%? St George fans? 40%? In 1987, Balmain drew 7109 against Illawarra and 3814 against the Raiders. The majority of the crowd would have been Balmain fans. I go to a lot of Raiders matched in Sydney and there would be lucky to be more than 1500 Raiders fans at those Sydney games.

In 2002, I went with some mates to see a Roosters V Cowboys game at the SFS. The Cowboys got smashed. There were about 10 people near us following the Cowboys. There might have been Cowboy fans elsewhere in the stadium (not that I could see them). The Crowd that day was 7318. That same year, the round 13 clash between the Roosters V Souths got 15891. What percentage of the 15891 would have been Souths fans? The Current NRL has 7 out 16 non Sydney teams (NQ, BB, GCT, NZW, CR, NK & MS).

Sydney derbies are not going to draw fans exclusively from the home club. In the 70’s or the 80’s, if sides in Sydney attracted a 15,000 crowd, you could bet close to half of the crowd was the opposition’s fans from across town. I can remember teams complaining about Manly fans not crossing the bridge that impacted on their crowd. In the last few years, what is the 15000 plus crowd split for Wests Tigers V Souths matches at Leichhardt? Next season, the Roosters and the Sea Eagles are going to play home games at Gosford against Newcastle. What percentage of the crowd will be Knights fans?

Anyone who thought the NSWRL was not about reducing teams in Sydney, would not have heard about the Bradley Report that suggested reducing Sydney Clubs from 11 to 5 in 1992.

 

[Perth Red]

How does everyone see the effect of Western Force on the League in Perth? Have they become big? Have they taken away the existing League market?

In some ways they have actually been a positive. For starters they have broken the AFL stronghold in the West that has been around since the demise of the old Reds (the Glory briefly challenged before off field problems scuppered their growth). The Force only play 6 home games so that leaves plenty of time in the sporting calendar and a well run and financed Reds team can attract floating "Rugby" supporters.

Also the Force has "lost" 13,000 members since year one. This is mainly due to them playing at Subi oval and the crap atmosphere (funnily enough the exact same problem the reds had at the WACA), a more exciting brand of "Rugby" at a more suitable stadium (MES) could well attract some of that lost fanbase.

Finally the Force have the ear of Govt due to the old boys network. They are likely to push for a redeveloped 35,000 MES much harder given their falling membership and 67% of fans in a survey saying they wouldn't renew membership if they stay at Subi. This can only be good for the Reds.

I have no doubts the Reds can attract a crowd of 15-20,000 from day one. Big question mark is if the can attract enough corproate support and this is where the AFL understands you need to slush fund expansion teams. Whether the NRL has the will to top up the Reds budget for the first few years is doubtful.

 

[parrawentyfan]

I too believe that the Bears and the Reds are two of the biggest prioirites right now. The CC Bears would be key in suring up the CCoast as a RL area, as well as getting all that money from the rich area of Sydney's north shore. All of the money from that area has gone into AFL and the Waratahs and left RL since NSyd went away. All u have to do to see that is look at the Nsyd and Chatswood skylines and match them up with Swans and Waratahs sponsorhip deals. Not to mention such a large percentage of RU/AFL NSW talent comes from schools and local comps in this area. It would be taking the battle right up to them.
The Reds are a priority too of course for obvious reasons. The lack of top RL in the area, the emergence of Western Force, the huge amounts of money there and the appearance of a truly National RL.
Wellington would have to be the other main option. This would provide a huge boost to international RL and would ensure extra TV revenue from NZ sources (the pie would get bigger!).
After that I'd say Sth Qld or Adelaide would be the next option. Sth Qld could either be a 'Crushers-esque' West Bris/SW Bris side or a Sunshine Cst/Redcliffe side.
I also think Country NSW is not an option to be completely dismissed. If anything, such a bid would at least provide competition for whoever else is bidding for inclusion. I outlined how I think this team could work here: http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=189180

 

[Perth Red]

Would be nice if the NRL would come out with a "possible" expansion timeline similiar to what the AFL has done. They don't have to committ to who would be in but it would be a great energiser for the sport to hear Gallop come out and say that RL is once again on the rise and will be looking to expand in year whatever.

That would also give extra encouragement to people like the WARL and give them a clear timeline for preparing a bid.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Would be nice if the NRL would come out with a "possible" expansion timeline similiar to what the AFL has done. They don't have to committ to who would be in but it would be a great energiser for the sport to hear Gallop come out and say that RL is once again on the rise and will be looking to expand in year whatever.

That would also give extra encouragement to people like the WARL and give them a clear timeline for preparing a bid.

I have high hopes that they'll release a plan to the public sometime next year during the centenary celebrations. The announcement of the RLIF 10 year plan and the proposed AFL plan by Vlad will hopefully force their hand.

 

[The Tank]

I have high hopes that they'll release a plan to the public sometime next year during the centenary celebrations. The announcement of the RLIF 10 year plan and the proposed AFL plan by Vlad will hopefully force their hand.

That would be heaven!

 

[KalgoorlieRed]

There seems to be a keen interest in expansion among certain sectors of the rugby league community and as someone who has no real passion for expansion I simply don't see it as a must.

I for one enjoy watching the current NRL competition and don't really see how expansion would enhance my enjoyment of the game at all. This competiton, in one form or another, has been running for around 100 years, so I would say that it has been pretty successful, even though it may have had certain ups and downs.

Also, I believe that this view represents a fair slice of the rugby league community, so why are some people so fanatical about expansion? Convince me.

I will post a poll after some discussion has occured to see what other users think.

Are you from Featherstone by any chance? :lol:

 

[Billythekid]

I have high hopes that they'll release a plan to the public sometime next year during the centenary celebrations. The announcement of the RLIF 10 year plan and the proposed AFL plan by Vlad will hopefully force their hand.

Keep dreaming. I realise a lot of us want to see this happen, but i just haven't seen anything that makes me think the NRL will do this. They'll continue to play second fiddle to the AFL while sitting in a corner twidling their thumbes.

I just wish the NRL would get their act together with this. At the moment there is just too much uncertainty and i can only imgaine how sh*t it must be trying to start a team from scratch in the current atmosphere. I take my hat off to both the Titans and WA.

 

[Lockyer4President!]

Keep dreaming. I realise a lot of us want to see this happen, but i just haven't seen anything that makes me think the NRL will do this. They'll continue to play second fiddle to the AFL while sitting in a corner twidling their thumbes.

I just wish the NRL would get their act together with this. At the moment there is just too much uncertainty and i can only imgaine how sh*t it must be trying to start a team from scratch in the current atmosphere. I take my hat off to both the Titans and WA.

Well if you had the choice to release the NRL's 10 year plan when would you do it? In 2007 midway through the cricket season or wait until one of the biggest years in the games history and release it amid a fanfare of celebration and increased interest?

 

[Perth Red]

There is a strategic planning meeting of NRL and clubs in March. Maybe they will ratify a strategic plan then? The report only mentioned 3 or 4 agenda items for the meeting with the main focus seemingly on how clubs will survive the pokie reduction money.

We may all be surprised and something may come out of it but TBH looking at how little support the NRL has given WA over the last couple of years I probably sit on the side of billythe kid.

 

[shaggy]

The Rams did well because Port adelaide hadn't arrived. Adelaide should be the last place we go to.

no, port and the rams both started in 1997, even if the rams had started before port it would have zero impact once port entered into the comp, port already existed in the sanfl, thats where their supporters came from, port supporters hate the crows because they believe they should have been admitted into the afl when the crows were

the sarl recently have had a change at the top two positions and from what i understand early in the new year the new administration will release plans to follow the plans of the reds and enter the jim beam cup, the first step has been the inclusion of an under 20's comp for the local league

as for the person who said the "nz" warriors had to decide who they were for a team from wellington to enter the comp (orcas), the warriors are not the "nz" warriors, the new zealand part was added by sections of the media

 

[Lockyer4President!]

the sarl recently have had a change at the top two positions and from what i understand early in the new year the new administration will release plans to follow the plans of the reds and enter the jim beam cup, the first step has been the inclusion of an under 20's comp for the local league

That's huge news! Keep us posted mate.

as for the person who said the "nz" warriors had to decide who they were for a team from wellington to enter the comp (orcas), the warriors are not the "nz" warriors, the new zealand part was added by sections of the media

It's not that much of a problem anyway because the Wellington team were planning on calling themselves the Southern Orcas, there wouldn't have been a real reason to worry about the Warriors name.