Why is there little interest in the Kiwis in this forum?

[Manu Vatuvei]

Yes I would accept that. I guess I’m just wondering, how did it happen? How and when did the Kiwis lose me?

That's what I'm trying to work out too (not about you, about the many people who feel the same way), because as poorly run as international rugby league is, I fail to see how the quality of competition or scheduling has really changed all that significantly in the last 20 or so years, to the point where fans would tune out.

To me, competitions like the 2004/5/6 and 2010 tri-nations or 4Nations were memorable and I don't see anything significantly different between those tournaments and the Pacific Championships - unless we think that involving GB is the crucial element?

Aus v NZ used to be enough of a reason to get excited in its own right and at some point a lot of people seem to have just decided it wasn't.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I resonate with that. I guess at some point, I just got sick of watching us get beaten more often than not.

See even that I can't really get behind, because for a team who obviously should be an underdog against Australia, we have done pretty well. We have a pretty outstanding record in terms of winning tournaments based in Aus/NZ particularly. Of the last 7 tournaments held in this part of the world, we've won 4 of them and lost a 5th final in golden point.

The complaint I hear a lot is that we should play more mid-season tests (and fair enough), but our record in ANZAC tests was horrendous while we have tended to do really well comparatively in end of season tests and tournaments.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Just read back to the start of the thread and I see I'm just running through all the same arguments I did a year ago lol

 

[Matua]

I resonate with that. I guess at some point, I just got sick of watching us get beaten more often than not.

Then how on earth have you remained a Warriors fan all this time.

 

[Meth]

Then how on earth have you remained a Warriors fan all this time.

I think we all ask ourselves that every year

 

[Meth]

I genuinely think that if the Warriors year has gone as they typically do, by the time it gets to this time of the year, I can’t take any more.

 

[Meth]

If our team is at full strength and it’s good, I would watch. But this year, as soon as I saw Hughes, Smith, Manu, Brown etc out, I cbf. Again, this is more a confession than a boast.

I also think the impact of the PI exodus and the prioritisation of Origin over the International game before that played a part

 

[Matua]

I genuinely think that if the Warriors year has gone as they typically do, by the time it gets to this time of the year, I can’t take any more.

Oh yeah, most seasons I hate watch the Warriors from about June/July on, but, and this is where we differ, I look forward to watching the Kiwis when the NRL is done.

Same with Origin and PI exodus, Origin pushed me more to the Kiwis and the Tongan exodus (most Samoan players have stayed loyal) has given me a team to hate as a fan.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

I still follow the lads religiously but let’s face it, when the game is ruled by incompetent amateurs who keep finding new and creative ways to fk things up, and punctuated by - more often than not - poor performances on it, general apathy from casual fans is probably unsurprising.

If we’re honest, most of the time the team can best be described as underwhelming. We’ve beaten the Roos only 10 times out of 45 games in the last 20 years.

It’s hard for anyone outside the hardcore fan base to get in behind that. Especially when they play so sporadically.

 

[Meth]

And the build up is generally underwhelming

 

[Meth]

FWIW, I’ve resolved to make more of an effort next year

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I still follow the lads religiously but let’s face it, when the game is ruled by incompetent amateurs who keep finding new and creative ways to fk things up, and punctuated by - more often than not - poor performances on it, general apathy from casual fans is probably unsurprising.

If we’re honest, most of the time the team can best be described as underwhelming. We’ve beaten the Roos only 10 times out of 45 games in the last 20 years.

It’s hard for anyone outside the hardcore fan base to get in behind that. Especially when they play so sporadically.

How is any of that any different to how it used to be though?

Is 10 out of 45 against Australia even particularly bad when we are always going to be obvious underdogs? Particularly when we are specialists at winning tournament finals (only 10 wins, but these include winning finals against Australia in 2005, 2008, 2010, 2014, 2023).

I simply don't buy that there's any truth whatsoever in the idea that the Kiwis have gotten worse. There's no pattern of worse results by the Kiwis compared to any particular previous era. I would argue in fact that personnel-wise we are very obviously better than we were in the "golden age".

It genuinely seems like at some point people got fixated on supposed poor results by the Kiwis and then mentally blanked out all the good results? Perception over reality.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Like - in the 1980s or 1990s when we played Australia we would usually lose, and that's what made it exciting - the outside possibility of a famous upset win. But in the 2020s, the fact that we're probably going to lose makes it a waste of time, and even when we do win it doesn't matter because we'll probably lose the next one anyway. I swear it's the same circumstances and it's the fan perception that has switched up.

 

[Meth]

Yeah, I think our glimpses and tastes of success has played a part. We won the Four Nations and the World Cup and at times it has seemed as if the era where we would so predictably lose was over. And then it wasn’t

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

How is any of that any different to how it used to be though?

Is 10 out of 45 against Australia even particularly bad when we are always going to be obvious underdogs? Particularly when we are specialists at winning tournament finals (only 10 wins, but these include winning finals against Australia in 2005, 2008, 2010, 2014, 2023).

I simply don't buy that there's any truth whatsoever in the idea that the Kiwis have gotten worse. There's no pattern of worse results by the Kiwis compared to any particular previous era. I would argue in fact that personnel-wise we are very obviously better than we were in the "golden age".

It genuinely seems like at some point people got fixated on supposed poor results by the Kiwis and then mentally blanked out all the good results? Perception over reality.

Bro I think 10/45 is embarrassing TBH.

A 25% win record was probably acceptable in the 80s, but the fact we’re still winning at about that rate now, when so many of our players are considered amongst the best in the comp… is pretty shit.

I know why I keep coming back for more, but I can also get people who’ve just become tired of the mediocrity and now find something more encouraging to follow at this time of year.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

FWIW, I’ve resolved to make more of an effort next year

I say this every year.

I think it's a range of things - the time of year is certainly something. In November, I'm in cricket mode. I'm league'd out. The amount of players that withdraw for inane reasons, and otherwise, doesn't help. The Warriors feels more tribal to me, because I guess it's every week, they've built a loyal, strong fan base, look I actually don't know exactly every motivation that exists...but I just cannot buy into the Kiwis. The final last year was literally on in the same room I was in at my cousin's house, and I didn't watch it (nor did I know it was on) until the score started building.

I know this would f*ck off the passionate Kiwi fans and I 100% get that. But I'm just being honest. I remember the epic Tests of the 90s, our Four Nations/Tri Nation/ANZAC mid-year battles through the 00s, the 07 World Cup final is a favourite memory, but now I just cannot buy into it.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out what changed between say 2010ish and now, and honestly the most compelling thing I can come up with is the 2017 Tongan exodus and embarrassing Kiwi World Cup failure. I just think most people are inclined to pin that on Kidwell and Blair and understate how significant the disruption caused by the Tongan exodus was.

The other thing is maybe having no international footy from 2019-2022 due to COVID had a big impact.

 

[Meth]

@Manu Vatuvei to be fair, you have a signature celebrating a Kiwi's result from 2008. Guess that is illustrative of how infrequently this team gives us something to celebrate.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Maybe they just need a shit catchphrase to catch the general public’s interest

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

@Manu Vatuvei to be fair, you have a signature celebrating a Kiwi's result from 2008. Guess that is illustrative of how infrequently this team gives us something to celebrate.

haha I think that purely relates to the way in which I interact with internet forums as a 39 year old vs in my teens and early 20s. I don't think I've changed a username, avatar or signature anywhere for 15+ years.