Why is there little interest in the Kiwis in this forum?

[Penrose Warrior]

Maybe they just need a shit catchphrase to catch the general public’s interest

You don't think 'putting the Ki in the Wi' counts?!?!?!

I'm racking my brain trying to figure out what changed between say 2010ish and now, and honestly the most compelling thing I can come up with is the 2017 Tongan exodus and embarrassing Kiwi World Cup failure. I just think most people are inclined to pin that on Kidwell and Blair and understate how significant the disruption caused by the Tongan exodus was.

The other thing is maybe having no international footy from 2019-2022 due to COVID had a big impact.

2017 definitely stands as a turning point. I mean, I'm a couple of years older than you, and definitely life circumstance comes into it in the fact I just don't watch as much sport as I used to. But yeah, I remember being invested in the 2017 campaign, the exodus plus losing to Tonga, then Fiji in the quarter, we'd drawn with Scotland the previous year, only being able to attract David effing Kidwell as a coach, Adam Blair chewing gum and not caring in the Fiji presser etc.

2017 was also the last time there was a mid-year Test v Australia. I think that's relevant.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

You don't think 'putting the Ki in the Wi' counts?!?!?!

2017 definitely stands as a turning point. I mean, I'm a couple of years older than you, and definitely life circumstance comes into it in the fact I just don't watch as much sport as I used to. But yeah, I remember being invested in the 2017 campaign, the exodus plus losing to Tonga, then Fiji in the quarter, we'd drawn with Scotland the previous year, only being able to attract David effing Kidwell as a coach, Adam Blair chewing gum and not caring in the Fiji presser etc.

2017 was also the last time there was a mid-year Test v Australia. I think that's relevant.

2017 was also SJ's 'youse got your wish' moment wasnt it?

Looking back now, yea I think you're right. '17 feels like the tipping point.

Tongan boys switching, the Kiwis bombing, Blair's DGAF attitude and SJ's clanger afterwards... all added up, it would've felt like players had stopped caring about the jersey. The sort of stuff that switches fans off.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

It might be silly to say, but for me, although we had some success throughout it, the Kearney era took some shine off it for me. Hated the way he just cast players out of having any chance to get picked, to the point he was happy to bascially give away a test series in the UK with his selections.

The prime example of that was Benji Marshall, one of our all time greats, just tossed aside like he was nothing. When Maguire finally picked him again, watching the emotion and tears streaming down his face during the anthem is a kiwi moment I’ll never forget

They did a fantastic job in Christchurch this time around making the squad available and accessible to the fans, which can only help connection. Watching the Mark Graham doco today, wow it was amazing to see the scenes in the mid 80s at Carlaw Park. Great story from Lowe as well how the side was down in the dumps and doubting themselves, so he chucked the entire squad on the bus and told them he was taking them to Queen St, and unbeknownst to the team, he has wised up all the radio stations in advance and the team got a huge lift coming off the bus.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

2017 was also SJ's 'youse got your wish' moment wasnt it?

Looking back now, yea I think you're right. '17 feels like the tipping point.

Tongan boys switching, the Kiwis bombing, Blair's DGAF attitude and SJ's clanger afterwards... all added up, it would've felt like players had stopped caring about the jersey. The sort of stuff that switches fans off.

That SJ comment turned me off him completely tbh, was so poor

 

[Blair]

We need more competition, it can't just be the Kangaroos (whose fans have seriously lost interest too) and the plastic Tongans, full of guilt because their parents and grandparents migrated to Australia and New Zealand for a better life.

We need Great Britain again, coming down for three-test tours (and playing 'Ashes' with Australia). We need the quite good France of yesteryear. We needed a South Africa, an Ireland, an Argentina.

Just on the Tongans again. It's been mentioned that the Samoans haven't jumped ship the way the Tongans have. I'm thinking there's something deeper in that, being Samoans are the more patriotic New Zealanders. Our two countries have a closer bond.

 

[Wheeled Warrior]

Just on the Tongans again. It's been mentioned that the Samoans haven't jumped ship the way the Tongans have. I'm thinking there's something deeper in that, being Samoans are the more patriotic New Zealanders. Our two countries have a closer bond.

I have great respect for the Samoans who remained loyal to the Kiwis. I also admire how Whyte stayed with us, even though he could have joined the other turncoats in red.

 

[Rich102]

For me the lack of interest here and in general is down to the NZRL.

Their lack of investment in time or effort, for a national sporting body, is jaw dropping.
Look at their coaches. I just took 1994 to 2023: (30 years 9 coaches. )
Wins Draws Losses
Frank Endacott 1994- 2000 22 2 1
Gary Freeman 2001-2002 1 0 2
Daniel Anderson 2003- 2005 1 1 6
Brian McLennan 2005-2007 5 0 7
Gary Kemble 2007 1 0 4
Steven Kearney 2008 -2016 23 1 18
David Kidwell 2016 - 2017 3 1 6
Michael Maguire 2018- 2023 5 2 3
Stacey Jones

This doesn't tell the whole story. To get a better picture you would need to rate the opposition, which I haven't time for at the moment.
But just on the above Endacott, Kearney and Maguire are the only ones with more wins than losses. And proof, if required, that good players don't necessarily make good coaches.
So with a record of 61 wins, 7 draws and 47 losses in the last 30 years is it any wonder the Kiwi's are not firing up the fans.
The NRL needs to put some effort into this.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

Just on the Tongans again. It's been mentioned that the Samoans haven't jumped ship the way the Tongans have. I'm thinking there's something deeper in that, being Samoans are the more patriotic New Zealanders. Our two countries have a closer bond.

I absolutely do not have the qualifications to speak on this, but my impression is this is right.

Tongan nationalism and honestly, Tongan exceptionalism, seem to be a whole different best.

 

[Thatwasnthighref]

Just on the Tongans again. It's been mentioned that the Samoans haven't jumped ship the way the Tongans have. I'm thinking there's something deeper in that, being Samoans are the more patriotic New Zealanders. Our two countries have a closer bond.

You're right re: Samoan connection. I share the same the background as those boys - born here to immigrant parents, raised with lots of extended family and a very strong connection to the culture, but have a very very strong connection to NZ as well.

Its actually something I feel very lucky to have grown up with; literally feel like I have 2 home countries. But if I'd ever had the opportunity to pick one country to represent, it would've been NZ without question. Not because of the career prospects or money but because I'm a Kiwi. But then like many of the NZ-Samoan lads today, I would've wanted to represent the blue at some point, to honour my heritage. And I would've been equally proud doing both.

I don't why it may or may not be different for some of the Tongan boys. It would be interesting to hear from someone who lives it.

And just as interestingly, understanding why it seems different again for the Aussie-PI boys. Because, as you say, while there doesnt appear the same NZ connection for some of the Kiwi-Tongan lads (for whatever reason) its even less so for the Aussie domiciled lads of both PI nations. Origin obviously isn't a factor because they remain eligible regardless, yet they've moved in droves.