Why is Toovey so much better than Price?

[TruSaint]

Bennett doesn't carry on deluxe like Toovey does, so the whole 'tough demeanor' thing is over hyped.

He just gives the press the Clint Eastwood stare... eerrrrrr

 

[possm]

We do have a new roster next year and maybe just maybe these players will be responsive to Price. And the response maybe that of a will to win, he may actually create an instinct in these players a desire to win. After all they signed up knowing he is the coach and again just maybe there may have been players that made his job hard? I think we should just observe the first 6 weeks and then shake his hand or show him the door.

In your mind, what do you reckon Price will do differently in 2014?
Can you name the players who have left that 'made is job hard'?
Are you really sure that they have not been told about another coach?

 

[twinkletoes]

Apart from the obvious things I think one of Prices biggest downfalls is that he does not learn from his mistakes..he keeps making the same mistakes time after time. THis season he seems to be doing the same things he did in 2012, none of which have been successful...he hasn't learnt

In life unless you learn from experience you go backwards...just like the Dragons have.

The same applies to the management of the club, they don't seem to have learnt from their mistakes which has placed the club in financial difficulties, alienated a lot of supporters and produced poor results over all 3 grades on the filed.

 

[Dezziedc]

It is impossible to compare both Toovey and Price because they both inherited different squads. Toovey inherited a team that had only just won a premiership and had no problems scoring points and roster packed full of stars. Price inherited a team that was aging, being squeezed by the salary cap and even under a super coach in Bennett, struggled to score points and struggled towards the end of 2011. It is narrow minded and foolish to try and compare them and put all the blame Price for the last 2 seasons. Sure not all of us agreed with some of his selections and so forth, but next year is the first real year where he will have a team that has a chance to be competitive. New actual halves that will be able to carry out a game plan. Not always having to play catch up football which will lead to better completion rates and in turn better defence. Now I am not trying to be all rosey and say we will be awesome and win the comp. But I do believe Price has been hard done by by the management and recruitment from our club and is being hailed as the scape goat by the fans. IMO he wasn't even given half a chance with the squad he had the last 2 seasons. I do not want to be one of those clubs who scream blue murder because we lose games and sack the coach every time because of it.

This is the way I look at it too. I am willing to give him next year with a decent roster to work with. If we don't pick up our act, then yes, he is not the right man for the job. But I think we need to give him an opportunity to show us that he can work with a new team to play the style of footy he wants them to play.

BUT BRV, this view falls on deaf ears in here. Fans want results immediately and will do anything to get that.

 

[BrissyRedV]

This is the way I look at it too. I am willing to give him next year with a decent roster to work with. If we don't pick up our act, then yes, he is not the right man for the job. But I think we need to give him an opportunity to show us that he can work with a new team to play the style of footy he wants them to play.

BUT BRV, this view falls on deaf ears in here. Fans want results immediately and will do anything to get that.

It does. It seems everyone expected the team to win the comp. IMO it would not have mattered who we had coaching, we would have been around the same position with the roster. Anyone who believes we had the roster to go deep inside the 8 is dellusional. I personally think the halves this year were the major problem. They were not up to the standard required and there was no one in the club to replace them and from there it was just a cascading down from attack and into defence because of the catch up/adhoc football required to put points on the board.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Apart from the obvious things I think one of Prices biggest downfalls is that he does not learn from his mistakes..he keeps making the same mistakes time after time. THis season he seems to be doing the same things he did in 2012, none of which have been successful...he hasn't learnt

In life unless you learn from experience you go backwards...just like the Dragons have.

The same applies to the management of the club, they don't seem to have learnt from their mistakes which has placed the club in financial difficulties, alienated a lot of supporters and produced poor results over all 3 grades on the filed.

Out of curriosity, what mistakes do you believe Price made this season?

 

[BrissyRedV]

In your mind, what do you reckon Price will do differently in 2014?
Can you name the players who have left that 'made is job hard'?
Are you really sure that they have not been told about another coach?

Next year will be completely different. The halves will be the major one in the fact they are both quality and will be able to execute game plans to a 1st grade standard. This season without halves that could execute and distribute the ball efficiently led to easy to mark up to attack, poor or no space for outside backs and a very poor kicking game. This led to our attack having to be focussed on one or two players that was never going to work.

It was not so much the players that left that was the problem this year, it was the lack of any quality recruits to replace the aging/retiring/leaving players. Who did we purchase for the halves last year? 1 untested halfback. Did we replace any of the hardnosed forwards we have lost over the last 3 years in Smith, Costigan and Scott? We all know that Doust and Young handle the recruitment and they have by no means helped this team out at all last year or the year previous.

Now some of the players Price has brought have performed well. I believe Quinlan, De Belin and Stockwell have been improving and so has young Runciman. All have talent and all have been brought into the team by Price. Sure you could argue that they could have been brought in earlier, but we are not on the coal face. The coaching staff would have been right there and would know when to put them into 1st grade.

 

[possm]

It does. It seems everyone expected the team to win the comp. IMO it would not have mattered who we had coaching, we would have been around the same position with the roster. Anyone who believes we had the roster to go deep inside the 8 is dellusional. I personally think the halves this year were the major problem. They were not up to the standard required and there was no one in the club to replace them and from there it was just a cascading down from attack and into defence because of the catch up/adhoc football required to put points on the board.

Prior to SOO in 2011, the Dragons were unbeatable and the bookies actually paid out on us being minor premiers. We had the attack and the defence and we were rolling along nicely.

SOO, Bennett's anouncement that he was moving to Newcastle, Gasnier's annuncement, Boyd's annuncement etc. all caused a climate in which the team began to fail and it has continued ever since.

Our Dragons need to be mentally prepared and the team needs good plans to play to if it is to have any chance of success.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Prior to SOO in 2011, the Dragons were unbeatable and the bookies actually paid out on us being minor premiers. We had the attack and the defence and we were rolling along nicely.

SOO, Bennett's anouncement that he was moving to Newcastle, Gasnier's annuncement, Boyd's annuncement etc. all caused a climate in which the team began to fail and it has continued ever since.

Our Dragons need to be mentally prepared and the team needs good plans to play to if it is to have any chance of success.

Yes but who was in charge? The mighty Bennett man himself. So Price inherited a team devoide of any star factor that was already crumbling before he took over. No major recruits were recruited for the next 2 seasons and what would you expect would happen?

Being mentally prepared and having good game plans to execute is one thing, but you still need the players to be able to do it. But sure, blame Price for the recruitment and management of the salary cap. That is what scape goats are for.

 

[possm]

Yes but who was in charge? The mighty Bennett man himself. So Price inherited a team devoide of any star factor that was already crumbling before he took over. No major recruits were recruited for the next 2 seasons and what would you expect would happen?

Being mentally prepared and having good game plans to execute is one thing, but you still need the players to be able to do it. But sure, blame Price for the recruitment and management of the salary cap. That is what scape goats are for.

I hear you and agree that the Board, Doust, Young and Price are all guilty of poor performance. This thread is about Price and so I have concentrated on the Price factor. You will see in other threads I have had my say on others.

I respect your point of view and it could very well turn out to be correct; I centainly hope so. But exerience over the years tells me that Price will make similar mistakes in 2014 and if this is the case, we are doomed to another painful season.

By the way, where in Brisbane are you located. I'm on the north side Brendale. Live 5 minutes walk from my business.

 

[BrissyRedV]

I hear you and agree that the Board, Doust, Young and Price are all guilty of poor performance. This thread is about Price and so I have concentrated on the Price factor. You will see in other threads I have had my say on others.

I respect your point of view and it could very well turn out to be correct; I centainly hope so. But exerience over the years tells me that Price will make similar mistakes in 2014 and if this is the case, we are doomed to another painful season.

By the way, where in Brisbane are you located. I'm on the north side Brendale. Live 5 minutes walk from my business.

That is all fair enough. Everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong :lol: . I do hope for our sake that Price shows something and the team performs as we want it to. Doust and co. must have some belief in him because it seems they would be risking a great deal if they are going to keep him as coach for next season.

I live out at Narangba. Used to live in Albany Creek. Played a fair of golf down your way at Wantima.

 

[God-King Dean]

The bigger & better question is:

Why is Manly so much better than St George Illawarra?

 

[watatank]

I'll leave the coaching comparisons to the experts of this forum but compare the playing rosters of the two teams.

The core group of players at Manly (in terms of both key players/stars and senior players) was well established and will continue to be so for the next few years.

Look at our core group of players and I think you will find that most of them left or were on their way out.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Toovey was a smart footballer, but more importantly pound for pound one of the toughest players to go around.. and that toughness is instilled in his team as well - Manly commonly thought to be the most physical team in the comp..

Price on the other hand, wasnt a great player - mentally and physically never tough enough for first grade, and that also comes across in his coaching... the dragons under Price lack any mental or physical toughness..

Correct......Toovey took over from Hasler because he had what it takes to instill mental toughness into a team........for us Price took over from Bennett because urrrr arghhhh...mmmm....

 

[emack]

I see it a little like the wizard of oz really, only "half price" suffers from all three character flaws!

1. He has no courage (the lion);
2. He has no heart (the tin man);
3. He has no brain (the scarecrow).

Sorry, that was some weird analogy shit right there..................

 

[furball]

I think Steve Price is soft. It was evident already early in 2012, when he congratulated his player's effort every week when obviously their execution on the field and game results were consistently average or poor. He remains cool and calm and not phased - sometimes even aloof. I'm not sure if he has an incessant need to avoid criticism (e.g. at press conferences, and by not attending supporters forum) and a need to be liked, or whether he is arrogant and a passive aggressive. Either way, the result is he set the bar low. And that goes to the core of why I believe he is such an ineffective leader of men - hardly the type that inspires or motivates others.

Compare that to Geoff Toovey, who if he sees crap - from his players or match officials, will slam his hand on the table in disgust and call it for what it is - crap! You can see anger in his eyes - and that is real. He doesn't try to hide it and that is what others fear and respect. He got that from Des Hasler who will slam doors off their hinges and kick chairs when needed to show his disgust.


Furthermore I don't think Steve Price has football smarts enough to compete with his peers. Never once heard him elaborate on a what is meant by the game plan, or describe any of all that "hard work" they do at training "to get it right". He makes many mistakes, but doesn't seem to learn from them.

It's why I don't have much hope in next season, better players notwithstanding.

But, as has been pointed out ad nauseam, he did not appoint himself.

I hate saying this, Manly currently have a tougher culture then we do.

x 1

Probably the best description of Price I have seen Black Forest. When you set standards low, expect most players to only put in what is required to meet those standards.

Saints lack a coach who sets high standards and players who hate losing and refuse to allow standards to be set that low.

 

[Minh]

Toovey is better in all departments especially the toughness he expects from the team.

 

[furball]

It does. It seems everyone expected the team to win the comp. IMO it would not have mattered who we had coaching, we would have been around the same position with the roster. Anyone who believes we had the roster to go deep inside the 8 is dellusional. I personally think the halves this year were the major problem. They were not up to the standard required and there was no one in the club to replace them and from there it was just a cascading down from attack and into defence because of the catch up/adhoc football required to put points on the board.

I don't think many people at all expected Saints to win the comp. I set my expectations on sneaking into the top 8. What we saw all year was a defense line that did not move up, a real lack of aggresion in tackling and the expected poor offense. We also saw many times where they were in a position to go on and win but instead of lifting they dropped the effort level and ended up losing. The Parra game, 2nd Penrith game, both Bulldogs games and the 2nd tigers game spring to mind. I can't remember a single game where they came out fired up for a big performance. To me it was the most depressing year I have witnessed in my 20+ adult years of supporting saints.

 

[Minh]

Price looks for excuses and sugar coating, nonchalant and positive and repetitive whereas Toovey is filthy and straight up honest after a loss demanding answers.

 

[BrissyRedV]

I don't think many people at all expected Saints to win the comp. I set my expectations on sneaking into the top 8. What we saw all year was a defense line that did not move up, a real lack of aggresion in tackling and the expected poor offense. We also saw many times where they were in a position to go on and win but instead of lifting they dropped the effort level and ended up losing. The Parra game, 2nd Penrith game, both Bulldogs games and the 2nd tigers game spring to mind. I can't remember a single game where they came out fired up for a big performance. To me it was the most depressing year I have witnessed in my 20+ adult years of supporting saints.

Thats a far enough opinion. From purely a playing roster point of view, how do you think our team rated againest the rest of the competition? Do you think on paper we were top 8 material?