Why is Toovey so much better than Price?

[BrissyRedV]

Price looks for excuses and sugar coating, nonchalant and positive and repetitive whereas Toovey is filthy and straight up honest after a loss demanding answers.

To be fair, Toovey was filthy even if they did win. A lot of anger issues that bloke.

 

[mickeylane]

The point i was trying to make was simple and a lot of you touched on it slightly...

Its called Standards and Expectations of your team....

If Toovey was the coach of the current Dragons team we would be a more mentally tougher team and the players would have a min standard to uphold to or they would quickly find themselves in reserve grade!!

I know we would have won a lot more games with Toovey in charge - plus our halves would have most probably had more direction..

We may not have had the cattle this year but a coach like Toovey would not have died wondering trying to find out who was up for the 1st grade challenge and who wasnt!

Do u think Toovey would have left Fien at halfback all year?
Do u think Toovey would have persisted w Stanley at 5/8 for more than 2 weeks?
Do u think Toovey would have persisted w Rein at No 9?
Do u think Toovey would have smashed the dressing room door down after going down 19-0 to Penrith at home?

The answers to the questions are simple.....NO! No! No! YES!

So why are our standards so low when we know there are coaches out there w similar inexperience yet getting more effective results...

 

[bottle]

Price looks for excuses and sugar coating, nonchalant and positive and repetitive whereas Toovey is filthy and straight up honest after a loss demanding answers.

Usually from the refs. It is never because his team was bettered.
I for one don't want that in a coach.

 

[hermidale1]

This is the reason I think Hornby will be a great coach in time...tough player, smart player, and proven leader!

Ben Hornby hates to lose, and I have no doubt will coach NRL level in a matter of years. The guy is competative through and through.

 

[BrissyRedV]

The point i was trying to make was simple and a lot of you touched on it slightly...

Its called Standards and Expectations of your team....

If Toovey was the coach of the current Dragons team we would be a more mentally tougher team and the players would have a min standard to uphold to or they would quickly find themselves in reserve grade!!

I know we would have won a lot more games with Toovey in charge - plus our halves would have most probably had more direction..

We may not have had the cattle this year but a coach like Toovey would not have died wondering trying to find out who was up for the 1st grade challenge and who wasnt!

Do u think Toovey would have left Fien at halfback all year?
Do u think Toovey would have persisted w Stanley at 5/8 for more than 2 weeks?
Do u think Toovey would have persisted w Rein at No 9?
Do u think Toovey would have smashed the dressing room door down after going down 19-0 to Penrith at home?

The answers to the questions are simple.....NO! No! No! YES!

So why are our standards so low when we know there are coaches out there w similar inexperience yet getting more effective results...

Again, it is a matter of opinion on what Toovey hypothetically would have / could have done with our team this year. Did Toovey have to make any hard choices on dropping any players this year? From my memory no. Would he have thrust DW into first grade even if he was showing attitude issues ahead of Fien? Would he have selected King (who was injured for a large protion of the year) ahed of Rein? Would Wayne have busted a door down after going down 19 - 0? The common theme with our problems this year is our halves. We had 0 experienced halves and we had no depth to cover our non existant halves.

 

[furball]

Thats a far enough opinion. From purely a playing roster point of view, how do you think our team rated againest the rest of the competition? Do you think on paper we were top 8 material?

I thought on paper we would be limited in attack due to the halves and depth in the centres but that we would still be solid defensively and compete with most teams except the very top ones. It was frustrating that despite the glaring weakness in the halves that Soward was let go even if he was causing issues. As head coach Price's job was to find away to relate to Soward and get him committed to the cause. Instead he sanctioned his early release and put a centre at 5/8 which did not work. He refused to give Drinkwater an opportunity. In my opinion as soon as it was impossible to make the 8 drinkwater should have been made halfback with Fein to Hooker so that we at least would have a 5 game sample of Drinkwater to gauge if he is worth keeping around. Instead we got 20 minutes in the last game of the year.

There is no doubt that this years squad was not that talented and thankfully it is being over hauled. But talent is one thing. Effort, commitment and will to win is something that was rarely shown outside of a few of the usual suspects.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Ben Hornby hates to lose, and I have no doubt will coach NRL level in a matter of years. The guy is competative through and through.

Ben Hornby will be. I just hope he is allowed to progress at steady rate and not thrust into a top job too soon. A couple of assistant jobs under some quality experience 1st grade coaches would be a good start.

 

[BrissyRedV]

I thought on paper we would be limited in attack due to the halves and depth in the centres but that we would still be solid defensively and compete with most teams except the very top ones. It was frustrating that despite the glaring weakness in the halves that Soward was let go even if he was causing issues. As head coach Price's job was to find away to relate to Soward and get him committed to the cause. Instead he sanctioned his early release and put a centre at 5/8 which did not work. He refused to give Drinkwater an opportunity. In my opinion as soon as it was impossible to make the 8 drinkwater should have been made halfback with Fein to Hooker so that we at least would have a 5 game sample of Drinkwater to gauge if he is worth keeping around. Instead we got 20 minutes in the last game of the year.

There is no doubt that this years squad was not that talented and thankfully it is being over hauled. But talent is one thing. Effort, commitment and will to win is something that was rarely shown outside of a few of the usual suspects.

The thing with Soward is the only coach in his career to get the best out of him was Bennett. He was also dropped by Brown in his time as well. It will be interesting to see how he goes under Cleary. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he was released anyway. With DW, from what I understand he was having some form of attitude / behavioural issues mid way through the season. I am the same in that I would have liked to see him in earlier, but we are not in the know on what goes on around behind the scenes with players. My only assumption was that perhaps we were already playing with one young inexperienced half and it was preferential to blood him slowly.

We will know, if Price does survive the off season, if he can coach or not very early on in the season. The long over due overhaul should put a talented young team in his hands. He has shown in the youger grades that he can coach and can improve players.

 

[to_ddeath]

The thing with Soward is the only coach in his career to get the best out of him was Bennett. He was also dropped by Brown in his time as well. It will be interesting to see how he goes under Cleary. He wasn't exactly lighting the world on fire when he was released anyway. With DW, from what I understand he was having some form of attitude / behavioural issues mid way through the season. I am the same in that I would have liked to see him in earlier, but we are not in the know on what goes on around behind the scenes with players. My only assumption was that perhaps we were already playing with one young inexperienced half and it was preferential to blood him slowly.

We will know, if Price does survive the off season, if he can coach or not very early on in the season. The long over due overhaul should put a talented young team in his hands. He has shown in the youger grades that he can coach and can improve players.

In the younger grades yes - not at FG level.
Tell me who he has improved since 2012???



T.

 

[Slippery Morris]

Ok simple. Imagine if you were a player and played poorly. Tooves would tear strips off you and you would do your best not to put in another bad performance. You would be playing for your spot. Price on the other hand will pat you on the back, say you put in a good effort and wait for you to put in a good performance. If you play bad there is always next week under Price. For Toovey maybe 1 more week maybe not.

 

[RedVDave]

Apples and Oranges IMO Toovey is a very assertive and passionate coach yes is roster is better than ours to be fair but Price had a years prior knowledge before he took over Toovey got about 3 hours. I also believe Price is a very subbmissive and laid back coach, being laid back is not necessarily a bad thing so long as you can be assertive at times but I don't see a lot of it Price as I have mentioned earlier this year no more excuses for Price as next year he has a very solid line-up and a top 8 line-up so let's see how he goes.

 

[BrissyRedV]

In the younger grades yes - not at FG level.
Tell me who he has improved since 2012???



T.

De Belin, Stockwell, Quinlan, Runciman.

 

[Dezziedc]

Ok simple. Imagine if you were a player and played poorly. Tooves would tear strips off you and you would do your best not to put in another bad performance. You would be playing for your spot. Price on the other hand will pat you on the back, say you put in a good effort and wait for you to put in a good performance. If you play bad there is always next week under Price. For Toovey maybe 1 more week maybe not.

What are you basing this on? Post game press conferences?

 

[hardbaby]

De Belin, Stockwell, Quinlan, Runciman.

...which is four parts of bugger all for a club that was supposedly focused on organic growth and while these guys look good there is nobody that starred. Compare that to the youngsters at the Tigers, Panthers, Raiders etc. These guys stepped up and stole the show. Our coaching across all grades is terrible.

 

[Dezziedc]

...which is four parts of bugger all for a club that was supposedly focused on organic growth and while these guys look good there is nobody that starred. Compare that to the youngsters at the Tigers, Panthers, Raiders etc. These guys stepped up and stole the show. Our coaching across all grades is terrible.

So much so that Tigers finished under us on the table and Raiders finished 1 above us. They really stole the show.

 

[BrissyRedV]

...which is four parts of bugger all for a club that was supposedly focused on organic growth and while these guys look good there is nobody that starred. Compare that to the youngsters at the Tigers, Panthers, Raiders etc. These guys stepped up and stole the show. Our coaching across all grades is terrible.

Thats a third of the run on side. Is now Prices fault that he hasn't scouted enough talent like the Tigers, Raiders and Panthers? The palyers that stepped up for those clubs are some of the best up and coming talent in the country in Brookes and Milford. He can only work with what has been recruited to the club. How many new young players debutted for Super coach Toovey this year?

 

[BrissyRedV]

So much so that Tigers finished under us on the table and Raiders finished 1 above us. They really stole the show.

And of course the Panthers made the 8 as well.... Oh maybe not... Real show stealers.

 

[jenninga]

Having some of the best players in the game such as Stewart brothers foran cherry Evans Lyon also helps. But yes price isn't up to it, doesn't make the tough calls on regards to team selections, and the team doesn't respond to him

Manly have been helped by having at least 9 players in their squad which go back to 2009 at least.Talking SOO,and internationals each one of them.
How do they keep them all 4 to 5 years later .
There needs an INVESTIGATION ,c'mon,c'mon.

 

[jenninga]

Out of curriosity, what mistakes do you believe Price made this season?

26 rds of Fien at 7,Flo at FB instead of Quinlan,Drinkwater and Garvey on the bench alternate weeks,Rein playing 80 min too many times,Prior in the centres,AhMau,Damian Cook 10 min v the Tigers never to be seen again,persisting with Chase at 6 too long.
That's off the top of my head.

 

[BrissyRedV]

26 rds of Fien at 7,Flo at FB instead of Quinlan,Drinkwater and Garvey on the bench alternate weeks,Rein playing 80 min too many times,Prior in the centres,AhMau,Damian Cook 10 min v the Tigers never to be seen again,persisting with Chase at 6 too long.
That's off the top of my head.

Yes we can suggest these as mistakes as fans with absolutely zero inside knowledge about the inner workings of the club, salary cap restraints, injuries, discipline issues and individual players actually being considered ready for 1st grade. And if some of these changes had occurred do you believe we would have won more games? Would we have made the 8?