World Cup 2017

[Beavers Headgear]

I hate Cecchin and think he is a garbage referee, but on that last call, he got it correct

It actually shows the poor direction the rule makers have taken the game, with some people actually thinking that could be a try. 15-20 years back it wouldn't have been considered anything close to a try

 

[Philip_Smith007]

What really disappoints me most is yous Kidwell haters got your way.

Sure there's less players available for selection, but all that means Kidwell's cut NZRL costs and the team now rides a short bus to games. He's built something special. He has moulded a special team that is getting results that no NZRL team has done before.

I don't hate Kidwell, I just don't think he is up to it.

Not sure if you taking the piss?
Bluey won a tri-nations 2005 - 24-0 over Australia.
Kearney won 2008 World Cup, 2010 and 2014 Four Nations, reached world ranking of no.1, we beat Australia 3 times in a row.

Kidwell, drew with Scotland, lost to Tonga and Fiji, lowest finish in a world cup ever.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

I hate Cecchin and think he is a garbage referee, but on that last call, he got it correct

It actually shows the poor direction the rule makers have taken the game, with some people actually thinking that could be a try. 15-20 years back it wouldn't have been considered anything close to a try

What do you think the call would have been if it had gone upstairs?

 

[Beavers Headgear]

What do you think the call would have been if it had gone upstairs?

For me it isn't even close to being a try, but who knows with these guys, only have to go back to Manlys finals game to see that !!

There was never a strip at the ball, incidental contact with the ball in the tackle caused it to come free combined with woeful ball security, not a strip at the ball

 

[ANTiLAG]

Kidwell, drew with Scotland, lost to Tonga and Fiji, lowest finish in a world cup ever.

In 1992 RLWC, NZ didn't even qualify past pool play. Kidwell made it to the quarters.

He's built and continues to build something special. You doubters are just envious and want him and the team to lose. Well yous got your way.

But I see that Kidwell is building a NZ Rugby League empire, he's the emperor of it, and I forsee him leading a victory parade very well dressed in new threads.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

When we won the world cup in 2008 it was off the back of a Jerome Ropati try. That try started from a STRIP where Benji looked like he knocked it on but it was a strip. I said it back then and Im saying it now.

How the f**k can some kiwis say Benjis one was stripped in 2008 and Fifitas one was loosly carried? The answer to that is, some DKSAL.

 

[Rich102]

In 1992 RLWC, NZ didn't even qualify past pool play. Kidwell made it to the quarters.

He's built and continues to build something special. You doubters are just envious and want him and the team to lose. Well yous got your way.

But I see that Kidwell is building a NZ Rugby League empire, he's the emperor of it, and I forsee him leading a victory parade very well dressed in new threads.

New glasses too?

 

[Rich102]

Really good game from an excitement point of view. The crowd added greatly to the atmosphere.
England seemed to get all the 50/50 decisions early. In the end Tonga gave away too much possession.
In answer to your earlier question Iafeta, sign a couple more Tongan boys, play attractive football and win some games. The crowd will follow.

Could this be the kick start the Warriors need?

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

When we won the world cup in 2008 it was off the back of a Jerome Ropati try. That try started from a STRIP where Benji looked like he knocked it on but it was a strip. I said it back then and Im saying it now.

How the f**k can some kiwis say Benjis one was stripped in 2008 and Fifitas one was loosly carried? The answer to that is, some DKSAL.

Both were knock ons. The fact that the ref got it wrong almost 10 years ago should have zero bearing on a decision made in the present.

Plus, rules and interpretations get changed from year to year, most often needlessly. Comparing a decision in 2008 to 2017 in itself is a flawed practice.

 

[Mighty Ape Man]

So now which Australian will be reffing the world cup final between Australia and England? I love league but calling bullshit on this ref business.

How the f**k can there not be a single neutral ref available for a world cup final?

And try or not, why the f**k did nose picker not refer possible Tongan try to the English video ref (oh yeah even the video ref couldn't be neutral?!)

 

[Mighty Ape Man]

Both were knock ons. The fact that the ref got it wrong almost 10 years ago should have zero bearing on a decision made in the present.

Plus, rules and interpretations get changed from year to year, most often needlessly. Comparing a decision in 2008 to 2017 in itself is a flawed practice.

Yeah that's a pet peeve of mine. Why do we need new rules and 'interpretations' brought in every year. Basically they're designed to suit particular teams style of play. Or not suit. Remember when the warriors would barge players over the sideline or back in goal? Ok new rule time, penalty if player pushed back and some rubbish about momentum (which is wide open to interpretation, meaning we'll penalize the f**k out of the warriors because they're "bigger" than all us other teams) ah shit... Good days....

 

[jaseg]

For me it isn't even close to being a try, but who knows with these guys, only have to go back to Manlys finals game to see that !!

There was never a strip at the ball, incidental contact with the ball in the tackle caused it to come free combined with woeful ball security, not a strip at the ball

Couldn't disagree more - contact was directly on the ball (seriously - Whitehead barely even touched Fifita, had his hand on the ball from first contact to falling off), and he pretty clearly pulled it loose for mine - his hand coming off the ball is immediately followed by the ball coming away.

That's hand directly on ball, pulling it out of Fifita's grip - and not much of a loose carry either tbh, I think you're making that call based on assumption because it's Fifita. Have a look at it - ball tucked under the arm and against the body.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Both were knock ons. The fact that the ref got it wrong almost 10 years ago should have zero bearing on a decision made in the present.

Plus, rules and interpretations get changed from year to year, most often needlessly. Comparing a decision in 2008 to 2017 in itself is a flawed practice.

Fair enough because your view about the 2008 Ropati try remained the same as back then. It was knock on for you back then and it is now, whilst I disagree, at least your consistent.

Its those of us that agreed 100% that Roaptis try in 2008 WC final was a try and Fifitas wasnt that annoy me.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

That's hand directly on ball, pulling it out of Fifita's grip - and not much of a loose carry either tbh, I think you're making that call based on assumption because it's Fifita. Have a look at it - ball tucked under the arm and against the body.

UnDENIABLE proof.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

Couldn't disagree more - contact was directly on the ball (seriously - Whitehead barely even touched Fifita, had his hand on the ball from first contact to falling off), and he pretty clearly pulled it loose for mine - his hand coming off the ball is immediately followed by the ball coming away.

That's hand directly on ball, pulling it out of Fifita's grip - and not much of a loose carry either tbh, I think you're making that call based on assumption because it's Fifita. Have a look at it - ball tucked under the arm and against the body.

Of course his hand made contact with the ball. That's not in dispute. What's in dispute is that it was a strip and for it to be a strip it has to be clear he was playing at the ball.

That frame makes it look more like he's attempting to hook Fifita's arm rather than play the ball. He was lunging mid air when it happened.

Look at his head, more importantly look at his left arm and go a few frames further to watch him try to grab Fifita on the other side with his left hand.

It was not a single minded attempt to dislodge the ball. The hand made contact with the ball while attempting a legitimate tackle. That's a knock on.

 

[jaseg]

Of course his hand made contact with the ball. That's not in dispute. What's in dispute is that it was a strip and for it to be a strip it has to be clear he was playing at the ball.

That frame makes it look more like he's attempting to hook Fifita's arm rather than play the ball. He was lunging mid air when it happened.

Look at his head, more importantly look at his left arm and go a few frames further to watch him try to grab Fifita on the other side with his left hand.

It was not a single minded attempt to dislodge the ball. The hand made contact with the ball while attempting a legitimate tackle. That's a knock on.

RE his hand making contact with the ball, I said that specifically in response to the claim that it was "incidental contact with the ball" - I think it's a stretch to claim that, when it was the first and pretty much only contact with either ball or player. Plus, it's not like you can't both attempt to make a tackle and play at the ball at the same time.

Fact is that it was his hand ripping at the ball that made it come out - not a loose carry. Without that, the ball doesn't come free. Fifita wasn't holding the ball out, wasn't looking for an offload or otherwise had the ball in an unsecure position... it was raked out by Whitehead's hand.

Part of the issue is the rules themselves - they don't set out clear enough guidelines for what constitutes a strip. But given what I've seen over the last decade, I think that should be called a strip - it was the defender's action directly on the ball that made it come loose, and it wasn't a hit but a pull at the ball.

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

The fact it was a tight carry is exactly the reason it came out. That still doesn't make it a strip.

A large number of knock ons come as a result of "a defenders action directly on the ball" but that again doesn't constitute a strip.

From what I've seen that would be a knock on far more often than not in general play.

What I saw was Whitehead making a tackle attempt, not making a deliberate attempt to dislodge the ball.

 

[Beavers Headgear]

Couldn't disagree more - contact was directly on the ball (seriously - Whitehead barely even touched Fifita, had his hand on the ball from first contact to falling off), and he pretty clearly pulled it loose for mine - his hand coming off the ball is immediately followed by the ball coming away.

That's hand directly on ball, pulling it out of Fifita's grip - and not much of a loose carry either tbh, I think you're making that call based on assumption because it's Fifita. Have a look at it - ball tucked under the arm and against the body.

Sorry mate, I just see an off balance player desperately reaching out to try and make a tackle that makes contact with the ball, if he is good enough to be in that position and make a deliberate strip from above and rake out he is an absolute magician, and the way I see Fifita carrying the ball isn't that tight either, plenty of ball exposed and not tucked right in, that grip on the ball, any contact on the top of it will see it spew out

Still shots don't tell the whole story on this one, much how in cricket a still shot of a bowler with a bent arm doesn't mean he is throwing it

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

This picture shows Whitehead playing at the ball, not tackling.This shows a clear attempt for Whitehead to play AT THE BALL. Whitehead could've gone around the thighs, which as you can see on the picture, doesn't involve having to reach out as far as he did have for the ball. Going for the thighs is actually easier as the picture shows but Whitehead did what you should and went for the ball. With that one arm, he made a one on one strip.

 

[jaseg]

A large number of knock ons come as a result of "a defenders action directly on the ball" but that again doesn't constitute a strip.

Depends on the nature of the contact. As I said at the end of my previous post, "it wasn't a hit but a pull at the ball". If he hit the player and in contact it came loose, that's one thing. But he didn't - he missed the tackle and ended up pulling the ball out of Fifita's carry.

Sorry mate, I just see an off balance player desperately reaching out to try and make a tackle that makes contact with the ball, if he is good enough to be in that position and make a deliberate strip from above and rake out he is an absolute magician, and the way I see Fifita carrying the ball isn't that tight either, plenty of ball exposed and not tucked right in, that grip on the ball, any contact on the top of it will see it spew out

Still shots don't tell the whole story on this one, much how in cricket a still shot of a bowler with a bent arm doesn't mean he is throwing it

Guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I see a player who got beaten getting a hand on the ball and pulling it out of the ball carrier's grip. Plenty of ball exposed is a bit of a laughable excuse though - no matter how you grip the ball (short of using both arms) there's going to be plenty of ball exposed, that's just a function of the size and shape of the thing... it was clearly tucked against his body (do you want the front-on angle?).

TBH given the greyish nature of the thing, I wouldn't be that fussed - except the ref didn't even refer it. That was bad. It was definitely worth a closer look, particularly given the context of the incident.