World Cup expands to 14 teams

[roopy]

Fiji have always had plenty of local players, to their credit. Which just shows how weak it is to suggest these amateur players can't hack it at WC level. If they can do it then the other countries can too.

Fiji are slightly different because 7s is their national sport, and that has more of the same core skills of RL than any other game - individual defence, passing and running with the ball.
Every kid in Fiji spends years practicing the core skills of league - without knowing they are doing it.

 

[deluded pom?]

Fiji are slightly different because 7s is their national sport, and that has more of the same core skills of RL than any other game - individual defence, passing and running with the ball.
Every kid in Fiji spends years practicing the core skills of league - without knowing they are doing it.

The point is roopy that Big Picture suggested that the 1995 and 2000 Fijian WC squads were made up entirely of players who weren't from Fiji or hadn't played any football in Fiji.

 

[roopy]

The point is roopy that Big Picture suggested that the 1995 and 2000 Fijian WC squads were made up entirely of players who weren't from Fiji or hadn't played any football in Fiji.

I've moved on - I'm now discussing why they were able to claim 4th in 2008 with a heap of players without ESL or NRL experience - and why other countries can't expect to do the same with so little groundwork.

 

[roopy]

The point is roopy that Big Picture suggested that the 1995 and 2000 Fijian WC squads were made up entirely of players who weren't from Fiji or hadn't played any football in Fiji.

 

[Big Picture]

The point is roopy that Big Picture suggested that the 1995 and 2000 Fijian WC squads were made up entirely of players who weren't from Fiji or hadn't played any football in Fiji.

Are you able to identify members of either the 1995 or 2000 Bati WC teams who came through Fiji's domestic RL? If so I'll happily concede that they're not one of the countries who fielded a made up team then.

The fact remains that a team representing a country where the game isn't played is a made-up one, and it's hard to accept those like Tonga who are unwilling to include any domestically-produced players in their teams.

 

[bender]

Are you able to identify members of either the 1995 or 2000 Bati WC teams who came through Fiji's domestic RL? If so I'll happily concede that they're not one of the countries who fielded a made up team then.

The fact remains that a team representing a country where the game isn't played is a made-up one, and it's hard to accept those like Tonga who are unwilling to include any domestically-produced players in their teams.

I think you will find the following:
1995
Austalia - 100% local
England - 100% Local
New Zealand - 100% Local
Wales - About 60% (may be a touch lower) were born in Wales and lived the majority of their life in Wales, but were converted union players.
PNG - 99% Local - Captain Adrian Lam left at about 8 yrs of age and i think from memory they may have had David Westley and/or Bruce Mamando whose eligibility I am not sure of.
Fiji - 99% Local - But I think James Pickering and maybe one other was born there, but may not have played domestically.
Samoa - 100% were NZ or other based. No domestic comp
Tonga - 100 % were NZ or other based. No domestic Comp
Russia - 99 % local - Rob Campbell played in the brisbane competition.
South Africa - 99% local - I am pretty sure that they were the 10th team and i am pretty sure their captain Jamie Bloem? played in the ESL but was South African born.

The emerging nations were all locally based I think (though if there was a cook islands side, they may not have been) my recollection is that this competition included BARLA, Morocco, Moldova, Cook Islands, USA, Ireland, but this could all be wrong.

I am happy to be corrected on the above information, but it is pretty close to being correct. With regards to Fiji it is definitely correct. So perhaps you should concede?

 

[clarency]

It doesn't matter how many teams they throw in... it's always going to be between Australia and New Zealand and if their real lucky, England.

They need the emerging nations world cup back.

 

[bowes]

The emerging nations were all locally based I think (though if there was a cook islands side, they may not have been) my recollection is that this competition included BARLA, Morocco, Moldova, Cook Islands, USA, Ireland, but this could all be wrong.

Close. It was Ireland, Moldova, Morocco, Cook Islands, Scotland, Russia, USA. BARLA played in the 2000 emerging nations

 

[hutch]

I don't see anything wrong with it. The success of a team during the World Cup would spark interest by that nation, generating/improving efforts to develop more players. It's not a joke at all.

Look at the Australian soccer team for example. Before A-League began all of the national players were Australians who played in Europe. After Australia made the World Cup in 2004, it provided the best opportunity to create a proper professional soccer league in Australia.

the socceroos are all products of the australian domestic system though, they were signed by clubs overseas. it is not the same as current rugby league teams such as tonga who are full of players born and raised in nz and australia and who have never played rugby league in the country they are representin

------------------

I think the much larger problem is getting players out the Australian and New Zealand squad that should be playing else where. eg - Jarryd Hayne playing for Fiji then switching to Australia. That should never happen.

How are any other nations going to have a chance at international events when all the talented players funnel into Australia & New Zealand. It's no wonder they are so far ahead of the rest.

hayne played for australia first, as he is an australian. he should never have been allowed to play for fiji and only did so because he missed out on the kangaroos. our ridiculous rules allow this.


nobody is saying that countries should not be able to use their heritage players and take advantage of the grandparent rule as all sports do, but every country should have a minimum amount of players (between 3-5) who have played rugby league in that country at some point, and have come up through the domestic system before moving overseas. what incentive does tonga have in developing rugby league in that country if they can continue to pick as many aussies and kiwis who miss out on representing their first country. a one nation for life rule is also extremely important, or at least a 5 year stand down period between switching nations. the constant switching makes our sport look amateurish, and is not how an international sport should be run!

 

[CQ Italia]

Close. It was Ireland, Moldova, Morocco, Cook Islands, Scotland, Russia, USA. BARLA played in the 2000 emerging nations

+ Italy (was mostly Australia/English-Italians than however with a couple of Italian bred players) - the final was Barla V Italy.

 

[bowes]

+ Italy (was mostly Australia/English-Italians than however with a couple of Italian bred players) - the final was Barla V Italy.

WRONG!

BARLA beat Italy in the 2000 Emerging Nations, neither played in 1995

 

[clarency]

hayne played for australia first, as he is an australian. he should never have been allowed to play for fiji and only did so because he missed out on the kangaroos. our ridiculous rules allow this.

nobody is saying that countries should not be able to use their heritage players and take advantage of the grandparent rule as all sports do, but every country should have a minimum amount of players (between 3-5) who have played rugby league in that country at some point, and have come up through the domestic system before moving overseas. what incentive does tonga have in developing rugby league in that country if they can continue to pick as many aussies and kiwis who miss out on representing their first country. a one nation for life rule is also extremely important, or at least a 5 year stand down period between switching nations. the constant switching makes our sport look amateurish, and is not how an international sport should be run!

Looks like we agree more than disagree.

 

[CQ Italia]

WRONG!

BARLA beat Italy in the 2000 Emerging Nations, neither played in 1995

Considering you said 2000 in that post - wouldn't it be right?

I think the qualifying from what I've read could be:

USA, SA, Jamaica, Japan
Lebanon, Italia, Serbia, Russia

If it would look like that - the group A would get a easier path. Still only rumors until they release the official qualifications.

 

[bowes]

Considering you said 2000 in that post - wouldn't it be right?

Looks like a misunderstanding there then. I was saying the 1995 teams and only said they were in 2000 to correct that. But yes: BARLA, Italy, Morocco, USA, Canada, Japan played in 2000

 

[bowes]

I think the qualifying from what I've read could be:

USA, SA, Jamaica, Japan
Lebanon, Italia, Serbia, Russia

If it would look like that - the group A would get a easier path. Still only rumors until they release the official qualifications.

Slightly but not by much. Lebanon and Italy will be good standard, Jamaica are alright and South Africa theoretically should be good, though Japan are awful. Wouldn't be surprised if Russia end up dropping out at some point, would hope if someone other than Russia or Serbia win the Shield they'd get a spot in the qualifier

 

[CQ Italia]

Slightly but not by much. Lebanon and Italy will be good standard, Jamaica are alright and South Africa theoretically should be good, though Japan are awful. Wouldn't be surprised if Russia end up dropping out at some point, would hope if someone other than Russia or Serbia win the Shield they'd get a spot in the qualifier

I'm not sure if Italy are in the Euro Cup or Shield yet either. Unless anyone has heard anything? The RLEF need to decide soon to give them more preparation time.

Also if those 8 teams are qualification, I think Cook Islands shouldn't of got an automatic over Lebanon. The lebanese have been doing a lot more domestically + juniors + schools.

 

[deluded pom?]

I'm not sure if Italy are in the Euro Cup or Shield yet either. Unless anyone has heard anything? The RLEF need to decide soon to give them more preparation time.

Rugby League Express ran an article this week saying they were under the impression the Euro Cup will be a four team tournament based in France involving France, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. The reason they gave for the reduction was the heavy losses suffered by Italy and Serbia although why Lebanon should be dropped too is puzzling.

 

[bowes]

I'm not sure if Italy are in the Euro Cup or Shield yet either. Unless anyone has heard anything? The RLEF need to decide soon to give them more preparation time.

Also if those 8 teams are qualification, I think Cook Islands shouldn't of got an automatic over Lebanon. The lebanese have been doing a lot more domestically + juniors + schools.

Cook Islands have a league the same size as Lebanon, think it's 7 teams in each and have had a league for longer than Lebanon and they're better on the field

 

[bowes]

Rugby League Express ran an article this week saying they were under the impression the Euro Cup will be a four team tournament based in France involving France, Wales, Scotland and Ireland. The reason they gave for the reduction was the heavy losses suffered by Italy and Serbia although why Lebanon should be dropped too is puzzling.

Especially given the fact that Lebanon beat Ireland

 

[Big Picture]

Especially given the fact that Lebanon beat Ireland

No they didn't, both meetings in the qualifiers ended in ties, 18-18 at Tolka Park, Dublin and 20 apiece at Ram Stadium, Dewsbury.