Would Perth ever produce talent?

[MugaB]

Anyway, Perth will be able to produce talent just like any other region. Especially if they don't hold their hand out expecting everything to be laid out for them.

Thats my point... there are clubs running in nsw and qrl cup, that aren't holding out their hand, but are ready to get promoted into 1st grade, if the area they are in is what the NRL is looking to expand to, the 2 clubs that everyone think are ready are norths nsw, and east qrl, but they aren't going to due their location, if these two teams were given a licenses as 18 &19 to be playing all home games in Perth and Adelaide, they would instantly help the areas be competitive to keep them relevant in those cities while the juniors in those areas slowly rise the ranks there..
But there seems to be a need for these cities, to start fresh for some reason, and fail within their first few seasons

 

[Jimmy Wiggle]

But there seems to be a need for these cities, to start fresh for some reason, and fail within their first few seasons

Why would they fail? The only thing existing clubs bring to Perth is money. Players still need to move and will be signed in the same way as the Dolphins.

If Perth had sound financial backing, shouldn’t the same outcomes occur?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No.

No. This is not the 70s. Kids from Perth aren't allowed to dream about playing for Perth.

These are your rules, argue with them, you're arguing with yourself.

All kids dream of playing for their favourite club when they grow up. Most RL players do not get the luxury of living out their dream, but the dream is what motivated them to play the game and continue doing so when times were tough. By not having a club in Perth you're denying most Western Australian kids from having the dream to play rugby league.

 

[MugaB]

Why would they fail? The only thing existing clubs bring to Perth is money. Players still need to move and will be signed in the same way as the Dolphins.

If Perth had sound financial backing, shouldn’t the same outcomes occur?

Incorrect, existing clubs bring a competetive squad, maybe not 1st grade quality, but 10 fold better than the current WApirates have, and they won't lose games by 70blot, like the pirates have, Perths got money and sponsors ready, govt too, but everyone is too gunshy to back anything until the NRL confirm that they are interested... see all these bids are just talk, theres nothing concrete

 

[Black Panther]

The Western Reds were already tried and failed. No thanks..

 

[Dragonwest]

The Western Reds were already tried and failed. No thanks..

Ignorant much ....

 

[MugaB]

The Western Reds were already tried and failed. No thanks..

I beg to differ, they were railroaded by the ARL at the time, they were actually pretty solid..
Main issue was budget for away teams, they had to fork out to pay for them to stay and play, thats not a concern these days its all included in the NRLs costs, they also had a fairly large lead time, so they were able to get a fair bit of 1st grade talent over, which also stemmed into local juniors coming underneath, all this ended and the storm got all the benefits of their work.

Perth will work, just gotta get more competitive, i say this coz no one wants a new franchise to end up as whipping boys for the rest of the league, atleast half the squad will need to come from WA as you can have a team full of mercs from other states, but how long will that last before not bending the cap out of shape, from overspending on outside talent, when you can promote these pirates for a lot less, and hopefully they aim up

 

[Gobsmacked]

Category:Rugby league players from Perth, Western Australia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There's a handful over a time. One that I know was an average player.

They could produce talent- sure but significant talent??
Let's say Perth gets an NRL team... what is the pathway for talented juniors? Good young players need to be playing with and against other good players... so out of thin air they are going to magic up some schoolboys akin to a St Mary's Kebra ect ... to the power of at least 2! So they have someone to play...right?
Impossible . And even if it was possible that Perth puts together an astounding 2 St Mary's! Do they just play each other 20 times?
Cause there's 0 chance they're flying to the east coast regularly!

Now that's juniors...so.. who's the feeder club ? There's 0 chance that NRL players can keep sharp playing for a local WA team.. right? So they'll have to come from the NSW cup or QLD cup. So where do the fringe players live?

Perth is a logistical NIGHTMARE! for everyone!
I've lived in Perth and you give up on going to the East coast, it's too far and expensive to travel. You have countries half as far!

If Perth is to be viable then the NRL needs to invest 5 million a year for 10 years building juniors, clubs ect to have some kind of foundation.

Or there's NZ half the distance and dripping with local talent.

 

[Perth Red]

Thats my point... there are clubs running in nsw and qrl cup, that aren't holding out their hand, but are ready to get promoted into 1st grade, if the area they are in is what the NRL is looking to expand to, the 2 clubs that everyone think are ready are norths nsw, and east qrl, but they aren't going to due their location, if these two teams were given a licenses as 18 &19 to be playing all home games in Perth and Adelaide, they would instantly help the areas be competitive to keep them relevant in those cities while the juniors in those areas slowly rise the ranks there..
But there seems to be a need for these cities, to start fresh for some reason, and fail within their first few seasons

If the only criteria was to have an established pathway then you'd have a good point. But its not.
What will be far far more important long term to a team in Adelaide or Perth is that it invests in its own pathways and that fans and corporates, and state Govt, see it as a team belonging to that city that they can get behind. Not some FIFO established East coast club playing games there because it suits them.
We can get exactly what you're suggesting Bears can offer by partnering with a second tier club and not run the risk of a fifo pushback by having our own brand and ownership. Storm have shown how to do that.

In fact given the competition for jnrs in Sydney it can be argued that having an out of town club also fighting for the already stretched Jnr pool is a really bad idea. Better we partner with underserviced areas and leave NS to feed the Roosters.

 

[Perth Red]

Incorrect, existing clubs bring a competetive squad, maybe not 1st grade quality, but 10 fold better than the current WApirates have, and they won't lose games by 70blot, like the pirates have, Perths got money and sponsors ready, govt too, but everyone is too gunshy to back anything until the NRL confirm that they are interested... see all these bids are just talk, theres nothing concrete

Dolphins have signed 30 of 32 players from other clubs. And are already looking at who they sign from other clubs in phase 2 of their existence. Being established means nothing really it would seem.
How many of the current Bears NSW cup team or SG Ball team are not contracted to an NRL club and could play NRL?

 

[Jimmy Wiggle]

Incorrect, existing clubs bring a competetive squad, maybe not 1st grade quality, but 10 fold better than the current WApirates have, and they won't lose games by 70blot, like the pirates have, Perths got money and sponsors ready, govt too, but everyone is too gunshy to back anything until the NRL confirm that they are interested... see all these bids are just talk, theres nothing concrete

I get what you are saying but if existing clubs bring in a competitive squad, why have the Dolphins signed just 5 players from Q Cup to the nrl squad. Perth could do the exact same thing by bringing back a few of the young guys that are currently in junior development squads

 

[Perth Red]

Category:Rugby league players from Perth, Western Australia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

There's a handful over a time. One that I know was an average player.

They could produce talent- sure but significant talent??
Let's say Perth gets an NRL team... what is the pathway for talented juniors? Good young players need to be playing with and against other good players... so out of thin air they are going to magic up some schoolboys akin to a St Mary's Kebra ect ... to the power of at least 2! So they have someone to play...right?
Impossible . And even if it was possible that Perth puts together an astounding 2 St Mary's! Do they just play each other 20 times?
Cause there's 0 chance they're flying to the east coast regularly!

Now that's juniors...so.. who's the feeder club ? There's 0 chance that NRL players can keep sharp playing for a local WA team.. right? So they'll have to come from the NSW cup or QLD cup. So where do the fringe players live?

Perth is a logistical NIGHTMARE! for everyone!
I've lived in Perth and you give up on going to the East coast, it's too far and expensive to travel. You have countries half as far!

If Perth is to be viable then the NRL needs to invest 5 million a year for 10 years building juniors, clubs ect to have some kind of foundation.

Or there's NZ half the distance and dripping with local talent.

lol I live in Perth and work for an East coast company and travel one week a month over there. FIFO is in WA's blood.
Trust me to play NRL and earn what most 20 somethings could only dream of you'll travel! If that wasnt the case the current Perth professional clubs would be bottom every year, yet we have cup winners in nearly every sport.

Simple, you invest in participation growth, you invest in elite pathways, you get creative with cap concessions to support Perth signing outside of the NRL, you sign PNG and a QRL cup club as pathway partners and you go out and sign your first squad from existing players, just like Dolphins have done.

Doesn't need $5mill, needs around $2-3mill, which is what they should be spending anyway on grassroots in WA!

There's nothing hard or complicated about it!

And again if it was just about jnr talent sure, NZ is better option. But if NRL hasnt been woken from its slumber about the need to have a club in every Australian metro capital by this tv deal fiasco then it never will!

 

[MugaB]

If the only criteria was to have an established pathway then you'd have a good point. But its not.
What will be far far more important long term to a team in Adelaide or Perth is that it invests in its own pathways and that fans and corporates, and state Govt, see it as a team belonging to that city that they can get behind. Not some FIFO established East coast club playing games there because it suits them.
We can get exactly what you're suggesting Bears can offer by partnering with a second tier club and not run the risk of a fifo pushback by having our own brand and ownership. Storm have shown how to do that.

In fact given the competition for jnrs in Sydney it can be argued that having an out of town club also fighting for the already stretched Jnr pool is a really bad idea. Better we partner with underserviced areas and leave NS to feed the Roosters.

A Storm set up is unrealistic, its only came about,, coz they both wanted that market, and culled clubs to backem in... guess what it worked, till they had to keep pumping money into them for years.. fat fkn chance ARLC do the same for handout cities like perf & del

 

[MugaB]

I get what you are saying but if existing clubs bring in a competitive squad, why have the Dolphins signed just 5 players from Q Cup to the nrl squad. Perth could do the exact same thing by bringing back a few of the young guys that are currently in junior development squads

Dolphins didn't have to sign only 5 players from qcup, they had the cash to sign anyone from anywhere, they have the luxury to promote whos there in qcup any chance they get too on super cheap coin, that won't happen in Adelaide or Perth as you won't get 30 players from elsewhere, to travel that far west, you don't use up all your chips in the 1st season

 

[Gobsmacked]

lol I live in Perth and work for an East coast company and travel one week a month over there. FIFO is in WA's blood.
Trust me to play NRL and earn what most 20 somethings could only dream of you'll travel! If that wasnt the case the current Perth professional clubs would be bottom every year, yet we have cup winners in nearly every sport.

Simple, you invest in participation growth, you invest in elite pathways, you get creative with cap concessions to support Perth signing outside of the NRL, you sign PNG and a QRL cup club as pathway partners and you go out and sign your first squad from existing players, just like Dolphins have done.

Doesn't need $5mill, needs around $2-3mill, which is what they should be spending anyway on grassroots in WA!

There's nothing hard or complicated about it!

And again if it was just about jnr talent sure, NZ is better option. But if NRL hasnt been woken from its slumber about the need to have a club in every Australian metro capital by this tv deal fiasco then it never will!

Alright so the current grant to clubs is going to be around 17 M
Which puts current clubs around even financially, some better than others.
They have already paying members, sponsors, clubhouses ect.

A Perth team with none of those things would need let's say at least an extra 1 Million for general operation costs, so that's 18 M , then there's all the pathways and investments in junior that will be required 3M , the additional logistics for travel, hotels ect 1M . That's 21 M , then you need some cap relief to attract players 1M ,
Then you need to compensate clubs for their travel 1M .

That's 22 Million a year.
Of course there will be the start up year in the Millions...

It will be a loss of $ 22 Million a year for a minimum of 10 years before we see any talent.. - $220 MILLION! LOSS!

before we possibly see some talent.

Let's do it! Lol

 

[Perth Red]

Alright so the current grant to clubs is going to be around 17 M
Which puts current clubs around even financially, some better than others.
They have already paying members, sponsors, clubhouses ect.

A Perth team with none of those things would need let's say at least an extra 1 Million for general operation costs, so that's 18 M , then there's all the pathways and investments in junior that will be required 3M , the additional logistics for travel, hotels ect 1M . That's 21 M , then you need some cap relief to attract players 1M ,
Then you need to compensate clubs for their travel 1M .

That's 22 Million a year.
Of course there will be the start up year in the Millions...

It will be a loss of $ 22 Million a year for a minimum of 10 years before we see any talent.. - $220 MILLION! LOSS!

before we possibly see some talent.

Let's do it! Lol

Thats an interesting way of looking at it. Reality is any new club is going to cost $17million regardless of where they are based. The logic is that by investing that you reap more through selling the extra content.

So then you have to work out where strategically a new club has best opportunity to help grow the sport at all levels for decades to come. Including in centralised revenue from TV and sponsors. There are multiple examples of how our main competitor betters us in these key revenue areas which would suggest that Australian metro city reach is a key indicator of generating more revenue.

So then lets look at your figures.
On a current $15mill grant apparently all clubs are profitable. That includes the small clubs like Sharks and Manly who have little corporate or fan based revenue. Will Perth be more successful in generating corporate and fanbase revenue than say Cronulla or Manly? If yes then there is no reason the NRl will have to spend any more on the new clubs operational costs.

Yes they should spend more on increasing participation in WA (that should be a given regardless of if we get an NRL club or not!), its in the ARLC constitution that that is there job! Doing it when there is now a NRL team to massively boost the profile of the game here makes total sense.

I'd expect the elite pathway programs of the new club to be funded by the club. That should be in the tender business case to show how they will do that.

NRL pays all travel and accommodation costs, clubs dont get compensated for travel lol. They would have to pay increased costs for any new club. The difference is negligible on a $600mill budget.

Any cap relief will be worn by the club, not the NRL. Again should be part of the tender business case who they will generate revenue to cover any higher payment option

So no the NRL wont "lose"$22million at all lol. They will be investing the grant plus what they should be spending on grassroots plus a tiny bit extra travel.

But f they want to throw $22mill a year at a Perth club for ten years I wont say no, and some would say if you want a new club to be successful and reap the rewards of that then they should be doing!

 

[mongoose]

The Western Reds were already tried and failed. No thanks..

so did south sydney, why the f**k do we have them back?

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Dolphins have signed 30 of 32 players from other clubs. And are already looking at who they sign from other clubs in phase 2 of their existence. Being established means nothing really it would seem.
How many of the current Bears NSW cup team or SG Ball team are not contracted to an NRL club and could play NRL?

Of course they have brought players in, if players from the QRL Redcliffe team were NRL standard they'd have been snapped up by other teams years ago.

It's what happens next that counts.

 

[Perth Red]

Of course they have brought players in, if players from the QRL Redcliffe team were NRL standard they'd have been snapped up by other teams years ago.

It's what happens next that counts.

Not so much next, but probably 6-10 years down the line. But yeh I get that, which is why Perth will need to form a partnership or two the same way Sotrm have done so succesfully. Difference is alongside that we will be bringing through our own. Small to start but building.

 

[Jimmy Wiggle]

Dolphins didn't have to sign only 5 players from qcup, they had the cash to sign anyone from anywhere, they have the luxury to promote whos there in qcup any chance they get too on super cheap coin, that won't happen in Adelaide or Perth as you won't get 30 players from elsewhere, to travel that far west, you don't use up all your chips in the 1st season

Have you seen any of the local Perth A grade games?
There are a huge amount of players that have come from NZ and the eastern states, not saying that they are NRL players in waiting but people move all the time and a lot will move across the country for an opportunity.
The trick will be in keeping them for longer than 1 contract. Lifestyle will help and if Perth can set up a squad that is mid table for the 1st few years while the local juniors develop, then they will be doing exactly what the Dolphins are doing