Y.N.W.A Thread III: Enter 'The Normal One'

[saint.nick]

I'm not advocating dropping Karius at all. I just thought he had appalling judgement on where to position himself on the free kick. Don't take what I said as in anyway advocating that.

The bad goal keeping showed up for Origi's goal, as had the West Ham keeper not flapped at an innocuous cross Origi would have been nowhere near the ball.

The player who seemed most off the boil in attack was Firmino. He just didn't seem to click today. Playing wide left today he didn't offer much.

Laughably whoever did the pictures for the announcement of the team line up should be given a crack across the buttocks- when they showed "Firmino" it wasn't Firmino shown but some player from Man Utd (the kit was a dead give away with the Chevolet sponsor logo).

Yeah not attacking you, just the general idea floating around at the moment. It's ridiculous.

People need to remember that Liverpool are third, well within the top 4 and still within touching distance of Chelsea. Chelsea are in a real hot streak right now so keeping in touching distance with them is the most important thing. This is what happens when you have an amazing start and then hit a little wall, it seems like a disaster because you're used to topping the league table.

 

[Mong]

I'm not advocating dropping Karius at all. I just thought he had appalling judgement on where to position himself on the free kick. Don't take what I said as in anyway advocating that.

The bad goal keeping showed up for Origi's goal, as had the West Ham keeper not flapped at an innocuous cross Origi would have been nowhere near the ball.

The player who seemed most off the boil in attack was Firmino. He just didn't seem to click today. Playing wide left today he didn't offer much.

Laughably whoever did the pictures for the announcement of the team line up on the TV coverage should be given a crack across the buttocks. When they showed "Firmino" it wasn't Firmino shown but some player from Man Utd (the kit was a dead give away with the Chevolet sponsor logo).

Payet was wearing a white AIA shirt and had become very pale when they showed the hammers line up

And lol nick, unlucky?

Hmmm..

 

[saint.nick]

Payet was wearing a white AIA shirt and had become very pale when they showed the hammers line up

And lol nick, unlucky?

Hmmm..

I would consider a goal courtesy of a deflected pass quite lucky, yes. Unless he somehow did it on purpose...

 

[Mong]

Yep

Pool we're totes unlucky

I feel for ya

 

[saint.nick]

Yep

Pool we're totes unlucky

I feel for ya

I don't mind a bit of trolling but at least properly represent what I said, which was that the way we conceded the second goal was largely unlucky.

 

[Mong]

The ball hit a player and deflected and then some could of would of and maybes etc etc

Terrible luck that..

 

[saint.nick]

So by the same logic, goals from deflected shots aren't lucky, they were intended by the goalscorer...

 

[Haffa]

Can't believe Gary and Phil Neville are having a go at Karius. I think he's played pretty well the last few games. Please don't drop him .

 

[Jack_Napier]

Karius will be fine, the club needs to look at the goal keeping coach Achterberg tho. He's worked with Reina and Migs long term and they both deteriorated under his guidance. He's clearly not up to improving a keeper so I dont understand why he is still part of the coaching staff.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Well Saint Nick and Jack, looks like Tony Evans over at ESPN FC agrees with you both re: Karius -

Klopp betting Liverpool's future in goal on Loris Karius despite rocky start
by Tony Evans

Loris Karius is struggling to adapt to the Premier League, but there is little chance of Simon Mignolet winning back his place in the Liverpool goal. The mistrust of the Belgian runs so deep at Anfield that it is almost impossible to imagine Mignolet becoming a long-term solution to Jurgen Klopp's goalkeeping issues.

Karius, 23, is the future even if he's finding the present uncomfortable. He was at fault for Bournemouth's winner in Liverpool's 4-3 defeat and has been criticised for his flailing attempt to stop Dimitri Payet's free kick in the 2-2 draw with West Ham United at the weekend. He will be given plenty of opportunity to make amends. At Anfield, they hope that Karius will be the answer to what has become a problem position for more than three years.

The last Liverpool goalkeeper that inspired confidence was Pepe Reina. The Spaniard, 34, could easily still be between the sticks at Anfield but for a number of bad decisions in the boardroom. The first came in 2010, before the ownership of Fenway Sports Group, when the regime at the time decided to fight off interest from other clubs by awarding Reina a salary in excess of £100,000 per week, a remarkable sum for a player in his position.

This did not sit well with the American owners when they assumed control. They considered -- rightly -- that Reina was overpaid. So they decided to let him leave the club, earmarking Mignolet as the successor. It appeared to make sense. Reina's standards seemed to be slipping and, the logic went, he could be replaced by a goalkeeper on a salary of £40,000 per week. The idea was to pass the savings on to other areas of the team which were deemed more important.

Good theory. In reality it did not work so well. Reina has a strong personality and was a dressing-room leader, attributes his replacement clearly lacked.

On the pitch it was worse. Almost from Mignolet's first sessions at Melwood, then manager Brendan Rodgers and his staff expressed doubts about the goalkeeper's abilities. Rodgers wanted someone who was comfortable with the ball at his feet, but Mignolet's uncertainty in possession was only part of the problem. The Belgian's best quality is his shot-stopping, but he can be nervous under crosses and does not communicate with his back four in the style of the best keepers. Frustration at his inability to develop reached the highest levels of the club.

Brad Jones, Mignolet's deputy, was held in even less esteem. The Australian joined NEC in the Dutch league last year and now plays for Feyenoord. He has just been named the Eredivisie's best goalkeeper of 2016, an achievement that was met with some surprise on Merseyside.

Karius is Klopp's choice. Rodgers could distance himself from Mignolet's recruitment because of the way Liverpool's transfer policy operated at the time, but Klopp makes the final decision on who comes to the club. He will back his choice, believing his countryman can develop into one of Europe's finest goalkeepers. This belief will put the spotlight on John Achterberg, the goalkeeping coach.

The Dutchman kept goal for Tranmere Rovers before moving into coaching. He's been at Anfield since 2009, assuming duties with the first team two years later. Klopp has praised the 45-year-old's work ethic, but Achterberg has been criticised by some former players, including Bruce Grobbelaar, for failing to improve the goalkeepers under his charge.

Grobbelaar is one to talk. He was thrown into the Liverpool team of the 1980s before he was ready, needing significant work on the training ground to bring him to the required standard. But while his criticism of Achterberg may be unfair, the fact is Liverpool's goalkeepers have shown little sign of improvement over the past five years. Karius's development -- or lack thereof -- will be the acid test of Achterberg's abilities.

The goalkeeping position is only one part of Klopp's overhauling process as he attempts to make Liverpool contenders for trophies again. It will take another two transfer windows to revamp the defence, which will make it hard to judge Karius' progress. Any uncertainty in the backline will affect the goalkeeper and vice-versa. One thing is for sure: Klopp understands that no position exists in isolation.

Karius will get space to prove his worth. For the first time this decade, Liverpool have a coherent and sensible goalkeeping policy. That's an improvement already.

http://www.espnfc.com/club/liverpoo...s-the-future-for-liverpool-under-jurgen-klopp

 

[saint.nick]

Karius will be fine, the club needs to look at the goal keeping coach Achterberg tho. He's worked with Reina and Migs long term and they both deteriorated under his guidance. He's clearly not up to improving a keeper so I dont understand why he is still part of the coaching staff.

Because he's a good bloke for a pint with. And that's a serious answer.

 

[saint.nick]

Well Saint Nick and Jack, looks like Tony Evans over at ESPN FC agrees with you both re: Karius -

Yeah good article, letting Reina go has proved to be such a f**k up, if even his standards were slipping.

The idea of dropping Karius and reinstating Mignolet has to be one of the DUMBEST things I've ever heard in football. It is mind-boggling. Karius is making a few errors, so lets reinstate the guy who is the league's biggest expert on making errors. f**k me, why are people so f**king fickle and reactionary? Mignolet has even proven in the past that spells on the sideline do him absolutely no good. He comes back better for the first few games or so, but then he slips back into same old Mignolet. Karius' number one issue at the moment is confidence, and he's not going to find match-day confidence by sitting on the bench and doing drills at Melwood. He knows how to be a goalkeeper, he wasn't rated Bundesliga's second best by his peers for nothing.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Well the team are back on the winning track with a 3-0 win over Middlesborough. I only saw the scores, but it appeared to be the Origi and Lallana show, Lallana scoring 2 goals and Origi the other one, with both Origi and Lallana also getting an assist each.

Matip didn't play, he was out injured, so Ragnar Klavan played at CB with Dejan Lovren. Also looks like Klopp gave way to the pressure as he dropped Karius and started Mignolet at Goalkeeper.

 

[saint.nick]

Yeah, I'm not convinced that dropping Karius is the best decision. I think that if you persist with Mignolet, you're digging your own grave.

But apart from that, great win. Boro don't score many, but they don't concede many either. It's good to get back into great form right before the derby. The win is also huge because virtually all our rivals grabbed 3 points too, but it boosts us back up into 2nd. If we dropped points today then we would be peering over the edge of the top 4.

 

[Captain Apollo]

The following article is from ESPNFC -

Liverpool goalkeeper situation with Mignolet, Karius is 'fine and good'
By Glenn Price, Liverpool correspondent

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp has revealed there is no timescale on under-fire goalkeeper Loris Karius' return to the starting lineup.

Simon Mignolet started in goal for Liverpool during the 3-0 win over Middlesbrough on Wednesday night after Karius had made high-profile errors in recent matches against Bournemouth and West Ham United.

In the build up to the game, Klopp hit out at Gary and Phil Neville for their critical comments about the goalkeeper in Monday's news conference.

Klopp insists he was protecting his young shot-stopper by taking him out of the firing line and says he is part of the club's plans in the future.

"The situation is LFC is a long-term project," Klopp told a news conference afterwards. "We really want to improve the club.

"We know we have to be successful as soon as possible, but on the other hand we all feel comfortable in the situation with each other -- the goalkeepers included.

"I know how strong Loris Karius is, but unfortunately he couldn't show it in the last one, two, three games -- I'm not sure, that's not too important.

"I am absolutely not interested in public pressure, but I am interested in the boy and there is no reason to push him through this situation. In the end, everything is one little mistake -- which can happen to each goalkeeper in the world.

"So after one little mistake, should I say 'OK, that's it, final judgement -- I don't want to see him anymore?' There's absolutely no reason, especially when you have a goalkeeper like Simon Mignolet in training, on the bench, in character...a great footballer, a really, really good goalkeeper.

"He played really well at the beginning of the season, so there is no reason [to] push Loris through, that's why we made this change quite early and that's all, nothing else. We are fine and good.

"Now it is Simon's chance. I am really happy with our goalkeeper situation. We have these two really, really good goalkeepers; a very experienced Alex Manninger, who is a wonderful person; three outstanding really young goalkeepers.

"The goalkeeping situation at Liverpool is really good so that's why I said there is no reason to push one through, we want to develop the players.

"We are fine with our boys. Loris is still very young, he is a big, big goalkeeping talent and everything will be good in the end but there is no timeframe for when he will be back."

Meanwhile, Liverpool returned to winning ways in emphatic fashion at the Riverside Stadium that saw them move up to second in the Premier League.

Adam Lallana opened the scoring with a powerful header in the 29th minute before Divock Origi scored his fifth goal in as many matches on the hour mark.

Lallana then grabbed his second of the evening to secure a well-deserved victory that puts the Reds six points behind leaders Chelsea.

"[Am I] thrilled? Yes, with the result for sure -- and the performance was, of course, really good," Klopp added.

"The nice thing is when you even then you have something to improve in a good game -- and we had things to do better in the second half. You could really see how the boys took the information and did it.

"We could have finished more often; I don't think we should have scored more often, 3-0 is the result, a deserved result I would say, but we could have finished more often. It was a really good performance. I'm happy."

Boro boss Aitor Karanka immediately switched his sights to Saturday's crucial relegation clash against Swansea after conceding Liverpool were a class apart.

Karanka, whose side earned draws against Arsenal and Manchester City, said: "We've played the top of the league teams this season and we have competed against every one of them but [against Liverpool] it was impossible.

"Liverpool were much better than us, in their intensity, in everything. When they were winning 2-0 they kept the same intensity, they wanted every ball and they moved the ball at amazing speed.

"It is not a coincidence that they are where they are in the table and they are having a good season and they are candidates to win this league.

"But we just have to keep going. We can't forget the good season we are having so far. We have to recover as soon as possible because we have an important game on Saturday."

Glenn is ESPN FC's Liverpool correspondent. You can follow him on Twitter: @GlennPrice94.

 

[cb4]

Karius will be fine long term.
Once we get a proper left back and. Centre half to partner Matip he will be fine.
If we throw in a DM then added bonus.
His organisation of the defensive line is spot on, his communication and distribution is spot on.
Its mental.
He'll be fine.

Watched 70 minutes of the game (from 20 onwards)
Gini was involved in all the link up and build up play.
He does so much that goes unnoticed.
Lallana and Origi stole the show but Mane and his runs and pace helped.

Clyne looked good as well.

I cant say it enough, but I was wrong about Lallana. I wanted him binned and I was very vocal.
He now looks integral to Klopps game plan.
Also, Origi has 17 goals in 21 started games.
If he had the 9 on his back he would be spoken of in the Rashford/Martial category.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Didn't see the game, but it took until the 94th minute for the deadlock to be broken with Mane pouncing on a rebounded Daniel Sturridge strike which had hit the post to give Liverpool a 1-0 victory over Everton. We now leapfrog Man City into 2nd place, by 1 point, leaving 6 points behind Chelsea.

Looking at the match stats, Liverpool had 68% possession, so would I be correct in guessing Everton may have parked the bus?

 

[saint.nick]

Karius will be fine long term.
Once we get a proper left back and. Centre half to partner Matip he will be fine.
If we throw in a DM then added bonus.
His organisation of the defensive line is spot on, his communication and distribution is spot on.
Its mental.
He'll be fine.

Watched 70 minutes of the game (from 20 onwards)
Gini was involved in all the link up and build up play.
He does so much that goes unnoticed.
Lallana and Origi stole the show but Mane and his runs and pace helped.

Clyne looked good as well.

I cant say it enough, but I was wrong about Lallana. I wanted him binned and I was very vocal.
He now looks integral to Klopps game plan.
Also, Origi has 17 goals in 21 started games.
If he had the 9 on his back he would be spoken of in the Rashford/Martial category.

I agree, the reaction to Karius is pathetically over the top. He didn't suddenly become a bad goalkeeper after being voted as Bundesliga's second best by his peers.

Agree about Origi too, Martin Tyler would be orgasming every time he scored if he had a United shirt on.

 

[saint.nick]

Didn't see the game, but it took until the 94th minute for the deadlock to be broken with Mane pouncing on a rebounded Daniel Sturridge strike which had hit the post to give Liverpool a 1-0 victory over Everton. We now leapfrog Man City into 2nd place, by 2 points, leaving 6 points behind Chelsea.

Looking at the match stats, Liverpool had 68% possession, so would I be correct in guessing Everton may have parked the bus?

Well first off I'll just start by saying whaaaat a f**king win.

No, Everton didn't really park the bus. They had all the momentum in the first half hour but never created anything meaningful, it was an exact copy of the first half hour against United. In fact, I'd say that the game was almost exactly like the United game, they really stifled us for 30 mins but then we grew into it. This was by no means our best attacking performance but we definitely deserved the win out of the two teams.

 

[Foz]

I will be a tad upset if we sell Sturridge.
He has always offered something different to the regular striker.
We can dominate teams playing a set way but Sturridge plays his own game.
Sometimes he doesn't come off looking a world class player or looks part of the team pattern but he can turn a game in an instant.
Mightn't of scored the goal today but if he doesn't come on we don't win.