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You wont stop our group sex romps: NRL player

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,312
And people get fired for doing things that aren't illegal (but make their continued employment untenable) all the time. For example, walking into your boss's office and saying "f@#k you".

Walking into your boss' office and saying f@#k you is doing something inappropriate while at work- apples and oranges
 

God-King Dean

Immortal
Messages
46,614
Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it's right or good.

And people get fired for doing things that aren't illegal (but make their continued employment untenable) all the time. For example, walking into your boss's office and saying "f@#k you".

That's verbal assault.
 

mik01

Juniors
Messages
202
could well be, yip. Nothing in that article proves conclusively otherwise. And they guy I was replying to, no doubt enjoys adult flicks that involve sh*t eating etc..... and you can't tell me that ain't snorting/smoking/shooting between takes.

you're a dickhead
 

mik01

Juniors
Messages
202
They are crack whores you f**king dimwit. You'd being going hard at c**k too if it meant you got a shiny handful of rock afterwards...

The only thing I wont argue with on in that post, is the fact that you've watched a few pornos. I don't doubt it for a second - they've certainly warped your fragile little mind. It's little wonder you've taken up a job as a freelance pool boy and have been cleaning out the pools of local housewives pro-bono.....

sorry - this was your first dickhead post. i should have acknowledged it as such also.

so now you have twice the credit you deserve - dickhead
 

Ike E Bear

Juniors
Messages
1,998
Walking into your boss' office and saying f@#k you is doing something inappropriate while at work- apples and oranges

Do it on a Friday night down at the pub and there will be serious consequences too (unless the boss is exceptionally tolerant). It'd probably be wrongful dismissal if you were sacked for that alone, but on a long enough timeline your employment will become untenable.


That's verbal assault.

It'd be much easier to secure a conviction for sexual assault in a group sex situation than for ANY kind of verbal assualt/offensive language charge.

Change the example to sleeping with the boss's wife - everything being consensual. Like my above point, you mightn't be sacked for that on the spot ... but there's no way you'll be able to continue working under that person beyond the very short term.

The point still stands.


As an aside, I was expecting more "Rudd IS a wanker" replies. Hahahaha.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Just because something isn't illegal doesn't mean it's right or good.

And people get fired for doing things that aren't illegal (but make their continued employment untenable) all the time. For example, walking into your boss's office and saying "f@#k you".

Football players are public figures and enjoy benefits as such. If it wasn't for this elevated status, almost all of them wouldn't have a hope in hell of engaging in such crazy sex shenanigans. They have heads like pineapples. Heck, most of the "hangers on" that came into the room with Johns were basically trading on his fame more than their own or their personal attractiveness.

Anyway, this status equals power and power without responsibility is very dangerous.

What people do in their private lives is their own business, but if they make risky decisions that might one day come back to bite them, then they should be ready and willing to take the consequences. To Johns's credit, he is seemingly taking this approach. He made a mistake (by his own admission) and the girl involved made errors of judgement as well ... they are both suffering through those consequences, while there are others who have escaped so far - that's not particularly fair.

Enjoy your sex romps, boys ... but when the community and more specifically fans say "we don't like this", then don't be surprised when that has an impact on your employment, your status as a public figure, and your reputation.

If it was revealed that Kevin Rudd was a chronic masturbator, a cross dresser or something else which is perfectly legal and doesn't really hurt anybody (nowhere near as bad as a group sex situation that may or may not get out of control with one or more participants becoming uncomfortable) ... how long would he stay PM?

Finally, Johns's life is not ruined. His star has fallen a bit and he may or may not obtain those lofty heights again ... but he's hardly ruined.

If you were in the office talking about what happened on the weekend and you aluded to your best mate that you had consensual group sex, would you expect to be fired?

Of course not. Put it into context and you would know the truth. As far as the Rudd example, he was caught out in a strip club and if anything it boosted his ratings.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Do it on a Friday night down at the pub and there will be serious consequences too (unless the boss is exceptionally tolerant). It'd probably be wrongful dismissal if you were sacked for that alone, but on a long enough timeline your employment will become untenable.




It'd be much easier to secure a conviction for sexual assault in a group sex situation than for ANY kind of verbal assualt/offensive language charge.

Change the example to sleeping with the boss's wife - everything being consensual. Like my above point, you mightn't be sacked for that on the spot ... but there's no way you'll be able to continue working under that person beyond the very short term.

The point still stands.


As an aside, I was expecting more "Rudd IS a wanker" replies. Hahahaha.

Forgetting the whole WorkChoices sham (TBH I'm not up to which unfair dismissal laws have been repealed yet), and definitely dependant on if you work for a large business if those unfathomable unfair dismissal legislation exemptions are still in place, you can't be fired for sleeping with the bosses wife. Sure, it could be the icing on the cake if they've got something on you regarding poor operational performance or the requirement to restructure, but then they would be obligated to keep that restructure that forced you out. I'm sure there are many people who have boned the bosses wife and not been fired.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,312
Do it on a Friday night down at the pub and there will be serious consequences too (unless the boss is exceptionally tolerant). It'd probably be wrongful dismissal if you were sacked for that alone....

Exactly
 

Ike E Bear

Juniors
Messages
1,998
Hahaha.

Anyone who thinks a person could sleep with their boss's partner and remain employed in the long term lives in Disneyland. People lose jobs (or are forced out of employment one way or another) for far less every day.

Anyway, this is mostly off topic anyway. The point I made was that when you're a television personality, or even a professional sportsman, your employment requires that you are palatable to consumers - namely the viewing audience. If you do something that is perfectly legal but unpalatable to the consumer, it will impact on your employment ... and it might ultimately make your continued employment untenable.

And in this case, it wasn't someone overhearing Johns or Firman bragging about the event that brought this to a head - it was a complaint by the woman involved. People can speculate at her motivations, whether or not her "pain" is genuine, and whether or not she "deserves whatever she gets" ... but the complaint is what made this private encounter into a public spectacle.

As for Rudd's strip joint excursion - it just proves that the voting public (a politician's consumer, if you will) was not particularly disturbed by it. There are other perfectly legal and normally private actions he could take, however, that if made public would result in a voter revolt and possibly even being immediately sacked by Cabinet.

The only argument I'd really be open to here is that (like Rudd's strip club visit) rugby league fans and sponsors at large aren't really as upset about the Johns event as the media have made out.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Hahaha.

Anyone who thinks a person could sleep with their boss's partner and remain employed in the long term lives in Disneyland. People lose jobs (or are forced out of employment one way or another) for far less every day.

Anyway, this is mostly off topic anyway. The point I made was that when you're a television personality, or even a professional sportsman, your employment requires that you are palatable to consumers - namely the viewing audience. If you do something that is perfectly legal but unpalatable to the consumer, it will impact on your employment ... and it might ultimately make your continued employment untenable.

And in this case, it wasn't someone overhearing Johns or Firman bragging about the event that brought this to a head - it was a complaint by the woman involved. People can speculate at her motivations, whether or not her "pain" is genuine, and whether or not she "deserves whatever she gets" ... but the complaint is what made this private encounter into a public spectacle.

As for Rudd's strip joint excursion - it just proves that the voting public (a politician's consumer, if you will) was not particularly disturbed by it. There are other perfectly legal and normally private actions he could take, however, that if made public would result in a voter revolt and possibly even being immediately sacked by Cabinet.

The only argument I'd really be open to here is that (like Rudd's strip club visit) rugby league fans and sponsors at large aren't really as upset about the Johns event as the media have made out.

The issue for Johns is that it's another (Although in this case legal and consenting) issue amongst many others. Johns has been made a scapegoat for the acts of others, although over a long career both on the field and off the field and at representative levels I haven't heard of any issues with him.

I think the best method to deal with it would have been the way it's dealt with in the policing ranks. Pending the final investigation (of which has already been closed off... or in leiu in this case for it to blow over which it will as they all do, Dane Tilse is now for example forging a good career for himself after his act) would be for him to be suspended from on air activities with pay.

The overriding issue I have on this whole saga is this; Matthew Johns will lose out financially for being made scapegoat for a perfectly sane incident. There will be others, and many others, who will get involved with group sex activities, and nothing will come of it.

Where do we stand if the allegations made by her work-mate are true, that she was boasting about it?

Where do we stand if Ninness' view on the incident is true, that she afterwards invited players back to her home? I think this is absolutely critical and would further indemnify Johns on the basis of her lack of character alone. Although, to be fair, it's consensual sex and everyone has a right to get their rocks off. Even bar maids, even rugby league players.

At the end of the day, we are talking about an issue that was 7 years ago first and foremost, and secondly and probably just as importantly a legal act. That's ultimately the crux of the issue. Johns' is being victimised for handling himself with professionalism, mutually terminating his services with the Storm and Channel Nine to help out his family and also save both those entities unsavoury yet unfair embarrassment, and for being contrite about what was a legal incident. The only person Johns' has to feel sorry for is his wife, and he has already been through that. If John's was manipulative or totally career hungry, and was pushed by both those organisations I am quite certain he would have access to successfully pursue legal avenues for loss of income. That's the part you have to get Ike, you are taking a totally moralistic view of an issue that you need to put into severe context... he's a scapegoat off the back of Tilse, off the back of his brothers drugs, off the back of Latu, off the back of Crockett being charged, off the back of countless incidents whether be assaults, drunken behaviour, whatever you want to call it, and the sad thing is over a damn long time he's been a shining light for this code. And now it's people like you who have sold him up the river. Personally, I'm a Kiwis supporter, I'm not a Knights or a Sharks fan, but John's character has been largely impeccable and his involvement an asset to the game.

One other question - does this woman now stand to pocket from her 7 years on interview for the ABC?
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
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35,312
Anyone who thinks a person could sleep with their boss's partner and remain employed in the long term lives in Disneyland.

Sorry, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the Johns saga

The best point you've made so far, you made accidently- Johns was wrongfully dismissed- not that he has been dismissed, but his employment should not been put in jeopardy for a questionable episode in his private life in which no laws were broken.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496

http://www.smh.com.au/news/lhqnews/...romps--rep-star/2009/05/13/1241894044999.html


Here F*cking here!

I've had enough of these moral crusaders telling other people how to live their lives.

If consenting adults want to engage in any type of legal activity it is none of mine or anyone's business! stick to living your own life the best way you can.


Agreed but as long as the players take heed of the fact that an sort of encounter can only end up in tears for everyone involved. Gus said it best on Thursday. It doesn't matter if you think it's right. If the other party decides wrong was done to them it's their word against the player and then you are in for a world of hurt.
 

LESStar58

Referee
Messages
25,496
Its not about resisting them, its about knowing the dangers and treating them with a bit of respect.


True. I also think it needs to be hit home to the players that it's OK to say no and getting them to tap into their own self-worth! Nobody is gonna call you a "twinkie" or a "sissy" if you don't shag a girl that is willing to bed you... or even bed you AND a few of your mates.

On the other hand the MJ incident should also serve as a warning to all young girls. It might seem like fun at the time but in the end it is just not worth it when you start feeling as hopeless as some of these women have been made to feel.
 

Dogs Of War

Coach
Messages
12,721
If you were in the office talking about what happened on the weekend and you aluded to your best mate that you had consensual group sex, would you expect to be fired?

Of course not. Put it into context and you would know the truth. As far as the Rudd example, he was caught out in a strip club and if anything it boosted his ratings.

Yeah, but if your boss overheard that discussion, and found out that the girl was distraught from the experience, it may effect any opportunities you may get in that organisation from then on in.
 

sportive cupid

Referee
Messages
25,047
Hahaha.


The only argument I'd really be open to here is that (like Rudd's strip club visit) rugby league fans and sponsors at large aren't really as upset about the Johns event as the media have made out.
yeah.But I suspect-given the lousy position the NRL is in at the moment-that the real issue is what the potential fans and sponsers think.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,085
If Rudd had been caught cheating on his wife and it was with let us say a young man (aged 19) would that very legal act have an impact on him politically.

Of course it would.

Johns is a media personality. What the public think of him is very important. People in the media live and die by public perception.
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
Yeah, but if your boss overheard that discussion, and found out that the girl was distraught from the experience, it may effect any opportunities you may get in that organisation from then on in.

You aren't allowed to discriminate on the basis of personal preferences. The simple rule they can act on is if it was illegal, which in this case it was not.
 
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