Can't believe it's happening yet again

[Old Timer]

I exaggerated to make it ridiculous. My point is it WASNT all about bennett. And its not all about MARY.

The last 10mins yesterday the boys ATTITUDE changed. Mary didnt do it! and Mary didn't make them play 60% of the intensity they did earlier in the season too. The players themselves shifted in the last 10mins... they finally stood up to their end of the bargain. They switched their attitude when they were the most exhausted all game...thats quite something to say right there.

The players need to figure out WHY they lifted in the last 10. What where they playing for in the last 10 that they werent in the first 70? Thats the question they need to sit down and ask themselves. Or alternatively, what were they playing for in the first 10 weeks that they weren't in the first 70mins yesterday?

So what in your opinion is the coach actually responsible for?

 

[Frank Facer]

Jesus really?
That's the worst analogy for what's been happening for the last 4 years I've ever heard.

2010 Wayne Bennett took a bunch of, let's be honest here, rather ordinary footballers and got them to do the simple things right. Gave each player in individual job to do and they all did that thing well.
They over achieved and won the title.

The next year, due to some truely incompetent management in giving him a 3 year contract instead of the 5 he wanted, he had to sort his future carrer out halfway through 2011.
The first half of 2011 we looked again unbeatable.
Then Bennett, as a big FU to Doust for not giving him his original 5 years term, and a bag load of scammed cash from Tinkler, decides he's going to Newcastle.
The combination of a lot of ageing legs, many of whom retired after 2011, and the doubt over their playing futures, who would Bennett take and who he wouldn't, the wheels fell off.

To compare all this with what McGreagor has under achieved in the 4 years in charge is ridiculous.

I don't blame Doust for not giving Bennett a 5 year contract in 2008. Bennett could have quite easily accepted a contract extension for a much higher salary in 2011. Most coaches coaching a successful teams do accept contract extensions. It is actually very unusual for a coach to be coaching the current premiers and leading the comp to decide to take up an offer to coach another team. Hasler leaving Manly to coach Canterbury is the only time I can think of something like that happening in the past.

 

[ozbuck]

But again, I respectfully bring that back to Mary.
Luciano made a huge difference in the last ten minuites, really added some spark.
What game was Mary watching that he couldn't see we needed that spark in the first 70 minutes?
Why wait to make the needed change until the game is all but over.

Some player really do need to take a good hard look at themselves.
But once again we are at the point where they don't really need to because they can be sure Mary will do his usual cut and paste team selection and your position in first grade is assured.

As per the last few years certain players could really benefit from the rocket of an enforced stint in ISP, nut it never happens and we dish up the same mediocrity week after week.

The Game was in the balance until 20mins to go. Perhaps he thought we could jag a try first before Luciano came on. We nearly did when Hunt dropped that ball from Vaughn...he catches that he is in. Next set dufty and mann don't want to catch a bomb, widdop knocks on, tigers score from the next set.

I gotta be honest, Luciano was not the catalyst for the change in the last 10mins I believe. It was actually when Widdop scored and they got that same feeling they did against the Eels. Once Widdop scored it was game on and they were switched on.

They only player I wouldnt have there at the moment is Nightingale, I would leave Mann on the wing, and bring someone else on the bench.

But Mary was copy pasting the team so to speak earlier this year when we were winning with gusto too. But with positive momentum and other talks in the media about Rep footy coming up (SOO) players went to the next level which raises the whole team.

i'm not saying mary has 0% responsibility here. I'm saying the players aren't holding up their end of the bargain when it comes to getting themselves in the right mindset. They did in the last 10mins. They were earlier this year. People can deduce all problems down to a coach but I truly believe that is only looking where one wants to look.

 

[getsmarty]

The Game was in the balance until 20mins to go. Perhaps he thought we could jag a try first before Luciano came on. We nearly did when Hunt dropped that ball from Vaughn...he catches that he is in. Next set dufty and mann don't want to catch a bomb, widdop knocks on, tigers score from the next set.

I gotta be honest, Luciano was not the catalyst for the change in the last 10mins I believe. It was actually when Widdop scored and they got that same feeling they did against the Eels. Once Widdop scored it was game on and they were switched on.

They only player I wouldnt have there at the moment is Nightingale, I would leave Mann on the wing, and bring someone else on the bench.

But Mary was copy pasting the team so to speak earlier this year when we were winning with gusto too. But with positive momentum and other talks in the media about Rep footy coming up (SOO) players went to the next level which raises the whole team.

i'm not saying mary has 0% responsibility here. I'm saying the players aren't holding up their end of the bargain when it comes to getting themselves in the right mindset. They did in the last 10mins. They were earlier this year. People can deduce all problems down to a coach but I truly believe that is only looking where one wants to look.

You overlook the fact that the players look burnt out....same as previous seasons...Coach talked about giving them a break before Origin which translated to people coming on for the last 5 - 10 mins of the game. Same thing has happened during his entire tenure....So why are the players looking tired ???

Is it their responsibility to fix this or the coach.....

 

[RufusRex]

Psychology 101 ...

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour

 

[Dragonslayer]

So what in your opinion is the coach actually responsible for?

I ditto this question

 

[ozbuck]

You overlook the fact that the players look burnt out....same as previous seasons...Coach talked about giving them a break before Origin which translated to people coming on for the last 5 - 10 mins of the game. Same thing has happened during his entire tenure....So why are the players looking tired ???

Is it their responsibility to fix this or the coach.....

Overall, the origin players played with more gusto and energy than the other players on field. I dont think the 'burnt out' effect is as strong as it seems. They didnt look burnt out in the last 10mins... and thats the END 10mins of the game when they should be the most exhausted.

A lot of it is attitude, desire, and remembering what values they were holding themselves to earlier this season.

 

[getsmarty]

Overall, the origin players played with more gusto and energy than the other players on field. I dont think the 'burnt out' effect is as strong as it seems. They didnt look burnt out in the last 10mins... and thats the END 10mins of the game when they should be the most exhausted.

A lot of it is attitude, desire, and remembering what values they were holding themselves to earlier this season.

Don't agree....look at the last 3 games and even prior to that..we look tired....Who's responsibility is this...The Players or the Coach...avoiding the question is not the same as answering the question...

 

[ozbuck]

If the players are tired it is the coaches responsibilty to rest them. If a player has little niggling injury he needs to report this... if a player is struggling and needs a rest he needs to report this too.

See, for most people its either COACH or PLAYER. This team is coach AND player. If players and coaches arent communicating truthfully with openess than we are doomed.

Against the storm we looked to have a better energy level until the last 10mins after they scored twice in a row. Even the commentators said we looked to have the better energy and we were coming home with a wetter sail. Against the Dogs and Parra it was not good at all. It could be tiredness, part of it could also be just getting motivated against a bottom 3 team. Glad to get those wins but winning playing poorly is not a good reinforcement. Getting punished for doing something not good is appropriate, getting praise for doing something not good and reduce players' expectations and what they demand from themselves.

We have a bottom 3 team again this week. Lets see how the boys do. Personally I think we're going to lose our next 3 matches and then come good. Cant wait to see the messages in 3 weeks if that happens haha

Good discussion here though. We see things a little differently. Good to see things through others eyes.

 

[hazzbeen]

If the players are tired it is the coaches responsibilty to rest them. If a player has little niggling injury he needs to report this... if a player is struggling and needs a rest he needs to report this too.

See, for most people its either COACH or PLAYER. This team is coach AND player. If players and coaches arent communicating truthfully with openess than we are doomed.

Against the storm we looked to have a better energy level until the last 10mins after they scored twice in a row. Even the commentators said we looked to have the better energy and we were coming home with a wetter sail. Against the Dogs and Parra it was not good at all. It could be tiredness, part of it could also be just getting motivated against a bottom 3 team. Glad to get those wins but winning playing poorly is not a good reinforcement. Getting punished for doing something not good is appropriate, getting praise for doing something not good and reduce players' expectations and what they demand from themselves.

We have a bottom 3 team again this week. Lets see how the boys do. Personally I think we're going to lose our next 3 matches and then come good. Cant wait to see the messages in 3 weeks if that happens haha

Good discussion here though. We see things a little differently. Good to see things through others eyes.

Mate I don't think we will beat the Cowboys , and your thinking we will lose our next 3 . If that happens we are totally gone . For me it hasn't been good for a few weeks , are they mentally tough enough and is the coach good enough to turn it around . I don't think so because of previous track record of coach and players ......

 

[Dragons 09]

But tell me something...Yesterday, the last 10 mins we started playing football again, it was a 10x improvement from the previous 70mins. ....How did that happen?

You seem to keep asking this question but not getting an answer so i will offer my thoughts (thoughts that i have had for the last 4-5 years).
For 70 minutes we played Mary ball and as any good team would do, we stayed strong with regards executing Mary's game plan and directions. For 10 minutes the team thought, "f**k it, this shiz ain't working" and just did what they do best.....play what's in front of them.

 

[hazzbeen]

You seem to keep asking this question but not getting an answer so i will offer my thoughts (thoughts that i have had for the last 4-5 years).
For 70 minutes we played Mary ball and as any good team would do, we stayed strong with regards executing Mary's game plan and directions. For 10 minutes the team thought, "f**k it, this shiz ain't working" and just did what they do best.....play what's in front of them.

I applaud you spot on the lack of coaches game plan is the big problem , so when things get desperate and go away from the same boring sh*t they look ok .......

 

[Coffs dragon]

I'm sick of the same shit dished up every year after Bye rounds and Origin. Slipping and a sliding. This phuckwit trainer in Mary has no idea how to prepare a team to peak when it's critical and necessary at the pointy end. Easter is in April and not Dragons Grand final show.

 

[Old Kogarah Boy 1]

Available for long term hire ........................

 

[ozbuck]

Mate I don't think we will beat the Cowboys , and your thinking we will lose our next 3 . If that happens we are totally gone . For me it hasn't been good for a few weeks , are they mentally tough enough and is the coach good enough to turn it around . I don't think so because of previous track record of coach and players ......

Possibly. I think the media will get stuck into them if they lose the next 3. We haven't had real criticism all year practically... there have been no real shock losses except from yesterday.

 

[ozbuck]

You seem to keep asking this question but not getting an answer so i will offer my thoughts (thoughts that i have had for the last 4-5 years).
For 70 minutes we played Mary ball and as any good team would do, we stayed strong with regards executing Mary's game plan and directions. For 10 minutes the team thought, "f**k it, this shiz ain't working" and just did what they do best.....play what's in front of them.

What were Mary's game plan and directions?

"f**k it, this shiz ain't working"...nah more like a low % play (hunt kicking inside for widdop) paid off. We tried a couple earlier in the game but they didnt come off. So all of sudden the team has energy because now they're really chasing something down, the crowd is the loudest its been for 50mins, the result is going to be challenging but in a good way, and they've had the elation of beating the Eels in the same way so they know they can possibly do it. Dufty scores and now we are coming home strong.... but fall just short.

Whatever Marys game plan and directions tactically were not the problem, the problem was the energy once widdop scores was NOT there all game. Why did they not choose to play with that intensity and the same intensity they played the Titans or Roosters with from the kickoff? If we had've we would've easily beat the Tigers. They weren't good, and looked very very vulnerable close to their line. But we made mistakes that we werent making in earlier games at crucial times - sims knock on after benji tackle, de belin drop ball, etc. If we had the same intensity we wouldve won yesterday by 20+ points like we were doing earlier this year.

But all roads lead to Mary apparently so Mary must be the reason why the motivation and intensity is not there............................even though the players chose to pull it out of their pockets in the last 10mins. Think about it.

 

[ozbuck]

I'm sick of the same shit dished up every year after Bye rounds and Origin. Slipping and a sliding. This phuckwit trainer in Mary has no idea how to prepare a team to peak when it's critical and necessary at the pointy end. Easter is in April and not Dragons Grand final show.

GF is in September, not in the middle of July.

 

[giboz71]

GF is in September, not in the middle of July.

Exactly.

I remember the Sharks in 2016. Last 5 rounds, 3 losses, 1 draw and 1 win (one of those losses was against us when we were woeful).

They went on to win the comp by peaking just at the right time and an unlikely win in Week 1 against a hot Raiders side in Canberra (when Ennis did the Viking clap).

I love how some people poke fun at us for being March and April premiers and yet want to declare our season over in mid July (when we’re still 3rd).

September is when it counts and that’s still 7 weeks away.

I’d rather have our slump now to be honest.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

Exactly.

I remember the Sharks in 2016. Last 5 rounds, 3 losses, 1 draw and 1 win (one of those losses was against us when we were woeful).

They went on to win the comp by peaking just at the right time and an unlikely win in Week 1 against a hot Raiders side in Canberra (when Ennis did the Viking clap).

I love how some people poke fun at us for being March and April premiers and yet want to declare our season over in mid July (when we’re still 3rd).

September is when it counts and that’s still 7 weeks away.

I’d rather have our slump now to be honest.

Your assuming our "coaching" staff have the nessasary skills to pull us out of a slump? Evidence would suggest otherwise.

 

[giboz71]

Your assuming our "coaching" staff have the nessasary skills to pull us out of a slump? Evidence would suggest otherwise.

Yep.

We all need to wait and see. If we drop our bundle like in previous years, then we can declare Mary not up to it.

Bit early to give up however.